Fun UNLIMITED format - 150!

[RogueListers]

It's not any more, I updated the OP shortly after my last post with all the latest rulings. It was banned originally due to a misunderstanding relating to Jungle Mr.Mime.
It is still one of the most powerful cards I've come across though, especially considering it can go on Basic Lv.X. Had to deal with an Eviolite Kyurem the other week that was nasty, the dam thing lasted ALL game :/
It's going to be good on the new Bouffalant! (What's the deal with that being Uncommon now anyway? :S)

What do you think about the most recent ban (Mismagius GL etc), has anyone found any other infinite combos that need looking into?

I wouldn't call it broken, but one I've made is conductive quarry/burned tower/energy retrieval + :lightning:Magnezone SF + Palkia Dialga Legend. Throw an expert belt/giant cape on him or pair him up with Reuniclus/Alakazam and your opponent will be looking at having to take 30+ prizes >_>

Another one I've thought of but haven't tested is Mesprit Lv. X + Lake Guardians + Gardevoir RS + Gardevoir NXD

It pretty much guarantees 200 damage a turn, and since you're getting energy through your deck you don't have to worry about missing an energy attachment. Not only that, but with Azelf you don't even have a weakness. Even without Mesprit, the Gardevoir from Ruby/Sapphire combined with the one from Next Destinies can easily power up a sychic:sychic:sychic:sychic: move in one turn, ie Giratina Lv. X, Mewtwo Lv. X, etc. And don't get me started on Darmanitan/Exeggutor. Jirachi CL also goes well with Gardevoir NXD + Gardevoir PT for energy accel

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

Hey Rogue Listers, nice to see you've been digging deep with these combos! Another way to use Palkia Dialga Legend is with Heatran Lv.X, it is less pieces to set up but getting Heatran out of the active spot after levelling him up isn't so easy, my Fire deck is packed with Switch's and all similar cards just for that purpose.
I've not witnessed this happen in real life but I would like to! It'd be cool to see how you could survive and come back from it too, because it doesn't do damage and can be quite intensive on resources the opponent could be setting up on it at the cost of gaining several prizes.

As all the 150 players at my League know, Gardevoir is just one of the best decks you can run. The Gardevoir RS + Gardevoir NXD combination works well even without setting up Lake Spirits, just more Gardevoir / Gallades will do, especially Gardevoir ex (sandstorm). A guy I know runs a bizarre inverted "pyramid line" in his deck, something like: 4 Ralts, 4 Kirlia, 8 Stage 2s! (4 Gardevoir, 3 Gardy ex and a Gallade) and it works just fine. I would like to see your Mesprit scenario set up though, Uxie hogs all the attention!

Also, have you seen the new Jumpluff? It just ruins the heal combo banning. Our playtesting group is going to have to try this new version of the combo out over and over until we know how to handle it... urg -___-

 

[RapidashFTW]

I had thought of the Heatran Lv. X idea myself, and was going to give it a go. I also came up with an idea using Gyarados delta star. I found it while looking for mill cards after seeing a conversation about mill decks in this format on one of the threads. In a hundred card deck it could be amazing, and just plain hilarious. To get the energy back all you need is Infernape lv. x, Delcatty ex, or Aggron mt.
Not sure if this constitues a broken combo, not having the chance to test it, but being able to hit for 650 in a deck with 30+ energy is a bit crazy.The weakness of the deck would be relying on Gyarados. It is the only card that does what it does well. If you stuff the deck full of reviving effects though, I suppose it could work. Just so long as no one puts him in the lost zone. I thought it would be nasty having to swap between Gyarados and delcatty/nfernape/aggron every turn, but there is always slippery soles vanilluxe
Anyway, not sure how powerful this combo is, just thought it'd be fun

 

[Sepal]

I'm interested, but why 100 cards? They're too bulky to shuffle for me.

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

I'm interested, but why 100 cards? They're too bulky to shuffle for me.

Have you tried shuffling in 2 chunks? I'm just so used to 100 cards now it feels normal but I know some people who still find it hard all at once.
There's a few reasons for 100 cards. With it being an Unlimited format you only actually need to make one deck, it'll never rotate out and 100 cards means you'll get a lot of variety each time you play so it doesn't get boring.
The main reason though is to actually cause some level of inconsistency. 100 card singleton makes it so you can't pull off the turn 1 - 2 wins or instant lock-down you get in normal Unlimited so games have chance to get going and both players can set up their own strategy. This isn't to say you can't make a reliable strategy, but you'll often be using some different cards each game to reach the same goal. Rather than putting 4 copies of a card in your deck you can look for others that are similar or that compliment each other, it's a totally different style of deck building.

 

[Sepal]

No, I haven't shuffled them in 2 chunks. Maybe it's the sleeves i'm using that makes shuffling difficult, do you use sleeves in yours?

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

do you use sleeves in yours?

Of course! Far too many precious old cards and cool foils not to. There's also the fact I have quite a few Japanese cards in my decks so I need to cover their different backs.
I mainly just use the plain coloured Ultra Pro sleeves but also have some Pokemon Sleeves too. If you really have trouble shuffling just do a pile shuffle at the start and then just do a lazy shuffle every other time, it's only a casual format, you don't need to shuffle like it's Nationals every time you search

Can I ask what type of deck you're using Sepal? Who's your main attackers, draw engine etc?

 

[Sepal]

I mainly just use the plain coloured Ultra Pro sleeves but also have some Pokemon Sleeves too.

I use Ultra Pros too, but they are old, I got them from year 2000, maybe if I get new ones shuffling would be easier.

If you really have trouble shuffling just do a pile shuffle at the start and then just do a lazy shuffle every other time, it's only a casual format, you don't need to shuffle like it's Nationals every time you search

How does the pile shuffling work?

Can I ask what type of deck you're using Sepal? Who's your main attackers, draw engine etc?

I don't have a deck right now, i was only just testing how difficult it was to shuffle a 100 card deck. I don't know where to start on building a unlimited deck, since I haven't played unlimited in many years. I no longer have classic Pokemon cards like Electabuzz, Hitmonchan, Sneasel, and Scyther. But I still have the likes of Magmar, Cleffa, Ditto, Dark Vileplume, and most of Base Set Trainers. Are those still good?

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

How does the pile shuffling work?
I still have the likes of Magmar, Cleffa, Ditto, Dark Vileplume, and most of Base Set Trainers. Are those still good?

Pile shuffling is when you put your cards on the table in piles (I heard 7 is best for some mathematical reason :S). So you put 7 cards down then continue putting cards on top of each stack 1 by one, pick them up in a random order and it will be thoroughly randomized.

As far as old cards go... Base Set trainers are a good start, you can use all of them except maybe Maintenance! From the Pokemon you listed I'd say Ditto is the best as far as 150 goes, it's quite different from normal Unlimited. The Undaunted Vileplume unfortunately obsoletes that old one but old Cleffa is still a decent starter and you can evolve it into Clefable from Jungle which is still awesome.
Off the top of my head, some other Base era cards that are still good are Dark Dragonair (Team Rocket), Mr.Mime (Jungle), Electrode, Alakazam, Blastoise (Base), Haunter, Aerodactyl + Muk (Fossil).

 

[Sepal]

So wait Cleffa can evolve into Clefable? I still have Clefable, Dark Dargonair (Team Rocket), Mr. Mime (Base 2), and Haunter (Fossil). I'm not sure if I still have Electrode, Blastoise (Base), Aerodactyl, and Muk (Fossil). I no longer have Alakazam (Base), and I don't have Vileplume (Undaunted).

Edit: I still have Blastoise (Base)

Edit2: I no longer have Electrode (Base), Aerodactyl, and Muk (Fossil)

 

[Sepal]

Bump, I tried to convince my league leader to try the format, he's interested but he doesn't have his old cards anymore, and he expressed how hard it would be to get those cards again, so he's not going to try it. Sorry, I'm stuck with Modified for now it seems.

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

Hey, sorry for the slow reply. Yeh the old "baby" Pokemon can evolve so you can evolve a Cleffa into a Clefairy then a Clefable.
It's a shame he hasn't got his old stuff anymore, but it isn't a complete disaster. Once we've got the Dragons Exalted review out we'll release the deck building article which will have a section on building with newer cards, it isn't too much of a problem because of power creep most newer cards tend to be stronger anyway. I know a guy at league who was using an all Modifed legal Grass/Psy deck that was ok.

For a start here's a few Modifed (HGSS on) replacements for old things.

Clefable Jungle - Zoroark B&W
Claydol Great Encounters - Musharna Next Destinies
Mr. Mime Jungle - Bouffalant Dragons Exalted

 

[bullados]

Nothing can ever replace Claydol or Mime. Zoroark is a decent replacement for Fable tho...

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

Nothing can ever replace Claydol or Mime. Zoroark is a decent replacement for Fable tho...

Ha, quite true, though that new Bouffalant is quite a wall with an Eviolite on. I'd never use Zoroark over Clefable outside a Dark deck but I realize some people don't have access to the older cards.

For any UK players who might have missed it there's an upcoming 150 Tournament in Manchester on the 15th of September! Here's the PokeGym thread for it: http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2304055#post2304055 and the 150 Facebook page has all the latest updates as usual.

 

[Sepal]

Has anyone really bothered in contacting POP about this format? I don't want this type of idea for the format to go to waste, I would like to know what their response would be to this idea.

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

Has anyone really bothered in contacting POP about this format? I don't want this type of idea for the format to go to waste, I would like to know what their response would be to this idea.

I don't think they'd be too interested right now to be honest. The people making the game at the moment clearly don't care about non-Modified formats, crazy power-creep and Abilities/TSS merging prove this.
Maybe if it got so big they couldn't ignore it maybe they'd do something like EDH/Commander in Magic the Gathering (a fan made format, now official), but the MtG designers actively listen to their fans. I'll try to get some Japanese friends to spread it, then we might see some progress :wink:

That's not to say you shouldn't try it. The best way to spread interest is to play 150 at your local league, build 2 decks or get just 1 other playing and demo it. Many older players will appreciate the return to highly technical battles and/or just the nostalgic value. Even if it never becomes official that may be better, as it gives us fans more control over it.

 

[Sepal]

Thanks HEZ, I will give it a try. Right now, I'm having a hard time tracking down older material at my local Pokemon league, and I currently lack any funds right now to buy them (still looking for a job, and depending on postcard marketing to earn money).

If you like, I can send you a PM on a deck I need help with building.

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

If you like, I can send you a PM on a deck I need help with building.

Yeh sure or if it's any where near complete you could put it in the deck forum. I'm currently rebuilding my main deck for the tournament coming up soon, I realised I was giving advice my deck wasn't following >_< It was the first deck I made for the format so it was a bit outdated, we've learnt a lot since then!
I'll try to get an updated list up (after the tournament!)

 

[RapidashFTW]

I think the main difference between the whole commander comparison with m:tg is that Magic has an ingrained tradition of unlimited formats. As soon as they decided to introduce rotation they created the unlimited format (then called type 1 and type 2). I think it will be a lot harder for us, as Pokemon has always rotated sets out, and unfortunately there is no support for any unlimited format whatsoever. I agree with HEZ though, the more we spread it the more people will start creating their own tournaments and opportunities to play, and pop will have to pay attention.
Also, has anyone tried my combo idea yet (gyarados delta star with delcatty ex/infernape lv.x/aggron)??? I'd be interested to see if it works properly in your metagame

 

[Darkrai Trainer]

Sounds fun. Wish I had more old cards!