Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Health Insurance for all...

PokemansForGeeks

PokemansForGeeks

New Member
I don't want this to turn into a Repubby hate-fest but what is the consensus on universal health coverage?

I believe everyone in the USA deserves health insurance whether they be a millionaire or a hobo. I hate how the elite in this country are able to get free health insurance (Medicare - learn about it) while the struggling poor-middle class must pay upwards of 25% of their income for subpar coverage at best. I hate how 45+ million people in this country forgo health insurance every day because they either can't afford it or have pre-existing conditions and I hate most of all how once they get sick they're told "screw you" by everyone and forced to live in poverty. But most of all, what I can't stand is how the vast majority in this country are driving up health care costs by being unhealthy, taking unnecessary medicines and not caring about their fellow Americans. I am so glad Obama is standing up to the AMA, big pharmaceuticals and especially the ignorant Repubbys to fight for health insurance for everyone in this country. Thank you President Obama - you are my hero.
 
PokemansForGeeks said:
I don't want this to turn into a Repubby hate-fest but what is the consensus on universal health coverage?

I believe everyone in the USA deserves health insurance whether they be a millionaire or a hobo. I hate how the elite in this country are able to get free health insurance (Medicare - learn about it) while the struggling poor-middle class must pay upwards of 25% of their income for subpar coverage at best. I hate how 45+ million people in this country forgo health insurance every day because they either can't afford it or have pre-existing conditions and I hate most of all how once they get sick they're told "screw you" by everyone and forced to live in poverty. But most of all, what I can't stand is how the vast majority in this country are driving up health care costs by being unhealthy, taking unnecessary medicines and not caring about their fellow Americans. I am so glad Obama is standing up to the AMA, big pharmaceuticals and especially the ignorant Repubbys to fight for health insurance for everyone in this country. Thank you President Obama - you are my hero.
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Free health coverage?! What are you? A deranged hippie who thinks that we should spend the billions of dollars we get to help our own citizens?! Quit trying to improve the well being of everyone! (Sarcasm I <3 it.) Personally health coverage should be avaidable to everyone, regardless of income, prior accidents, etc., people get sick, don't add isult to injury when a cancer patient who just won their 3-year battle with it go back to their normal and then have to resort to homeless shelters because insurance companys refuse to pay the hospital and chemo bills.
 
The problem is not the lack of insurance, but how much people are being ripped off for treatment. There is no stinking way it can possibly cost them anywhere near what they charge for what they do.
 
I dunno about the plans that are being introduced now. I honestly think it's a pipe dream, there's no way we're going to get the current health care to change THAT much unless we do something drastic, like introduce a public system to scare the crap out of health care providers. I also wonder if there is enough political will to accomplish something that bold, republicans don't want it, and I'm sure there's more than a few democrats that have enough connections to the industry that they wouldn't want it either. I will agree, that letting the market run by itself has failed to lower costs enough so that health care is given to most people, with the rise in costs outstripping the rise in income, there's just going to be a point where no one can afford health care.
 
PokemansForGeeks said:
what is the consensus on universal health coverage?
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Any health coverage that doesn't involve violence is okay with me.

If you (general "you") wanna have your own voluntary system, that's okay, However, if someone is not interested in receiving services from the individuals who call themselves the state, and doesn't want to hand over his money to the state to pay for the system, he should be left alone. I would rather not see a bunch of armed thugs in blue uniforms break into his house, handcuff him, and carry him off to a cage, because he doesn't want anything to do with the system.

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is, government services are always backed up by violence- they will go after those people, and scare us into paying, because we don't want to get thrown in a 10x10 cell behind bars.

I believe everyone in the USA deserves health insurance whether they be a millionaire or a hobo.
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Agreed, as long as no one is advocating violence to pay for it.

I hate how the elite in this country are able to get free health insurance
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Fun fact: Members of Congress have special exemptions from Social Security tax- even government officials know their own programs suck!:lol:

(Medicare - learn about it) while the struggling poor-middle class must pay upwards of 25% of their income for subpar coverage at best. I hate how 45+ million people in this country forgo health insurance every day because they either can't afford it or have pre-existing conditions
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Note that some people don't have health insurance because they don't want it. And for some people, being uninsured is just a temporary thing, so those statistics (no matter where you get them from) should be taken with a grain of salt.

Gardi94 said:
health coverage should be avaidable to everyone, regardless of income, prior accidents,
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Great idea. However, people have been saying this for years, and no matter how long people ask for it, no matter which people people are in office, it doesn't happen. People have been lobbying and trying to influence the state for years, people have been voting for different politicians (of both parties!) for years, and the goal doesn't ever get accomplished.

Articjedi said:
I will agree, that letting the market run by itself has failed to lower costs enough so that health care is given to most people, with the rise in costs outstripping the rise in income, there's just going to be a point where no one can afford health care.
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When did this happen? The state has been involved in healthcare for decades.
 
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When I said market, I meant that the private sector in health care plans tend to emphasize treatments that have the highest profit margin instead of selecting the most effective cost for quality. We're talking about cheaper, effective treatments, instead of padding the profit margin. Insurers contract with providers in order to maximize their gains. This is bad for the consumer because the most profitable, most expensive treatments aren't always the best ones. If anyone has seen anything in the news about "comparative effectiveness research," it basically means that they're researching the most cost effective treatments, then using the results of that research to emphasize more efficient health care procedures. I had to write a really long drawn out research paper on all of this, and I never really came to a conclusion about how to best approach the problem because it's a massive quagmire.

Sucks that the government has to get involved. I hate it that it's going to happen this way, but the industry itself feels a need to be threatened to make any changes. A third of the money spent on health insurance is put into administrative costs, other countries do it for the fraction. Why can't we do the same here? It's obvious something needs to be done to lower the costs to where they at least expand along with the raise in income, that may mean something drastic, like putting guys in jail who don't pay. Freedom of choice vs economic security seems to be the game here. I guess I'm just one of the guys who can't accept that some people should die because they have no way of paying.

Here's the problem though, Nick, unless everyone pays into the system, then the system isn't viable. That was the whole reasoning behind Massachusetts universal health mandate, bigger pool of money to invest with and draw from, all health care costs are paid. Everyone pays money into health care, paid for by someone, subsides, your employer, out of your pocket, whatever. Either you found a health insurance plan and paid, got it from your employer, paid for a basic state plan, didn't pay and got an exemption or extension, or you didn't pay and paid a fine instead. Everyone pays money into health care, paid for by someone, subsides, your employer, out of your pocket, whatever. Very few states could afford to do something like this, and the recent economic crisis has done a huge amount of damage to the state budget regarding the universal mandate.

The 25% that Pokemansforgeeks mentioned was from the cost of a basic health care plan for an individual right above three times the poverty line in Massachusetts, which was the ceiling for people not to qualify for the cheaper state subsized plan. I think it was an income of $32,000 and a cost of health care of $8,000, I forget the source. It's one of the problems inherent in the mandate, an individual making about $15 an hour is now forced to pay 25% of their income to some health insurer unless they paid a higher fine, which is completely unfair for the state to do so.

So there's the dilemma, can't make everyone happy it seems =\
 
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DarthPika said:
The problem is not the lack of insurance, but how much people are being ripped off for treatment. There is no stinking way it can possibly cost them anywhere near what they charge for what they do.
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I guarantee that well over half of those obscene doctor and hospital bills goes toward malpractice insurance.

If we could stop America from being a society of litigious morons that sue over any perceived slight, a lot of things would be cheaper. Trial lawyers will be the death of this nation.
 
I'm not gonna go too deep into this, because all you ever do is say "lalala I'm not listening!", but I will agree with DathPika that it's the cost that's the problem, and that big government is a reason behind that high cost.
 
I know my opinion isn't a popular one these days, but I am a capitalist. I think that companies should look out for their own interests. Insurance companies charge what they need to charge in order to stay competitive and hospitals charge what they need to charge to stay in business. Yes, they even turn a profit. That is not evil. That is capitalism and I support it. Also before people start flaming me for my views I should let you know that I am currently between jobs and do not have medical insurance because of it. However, that doesn't change my view on the medical business or capitalism in general.
 
I wouldn't say the government is the main reason why care costs so much. Just look down your street - you'll probably see that at least 50% of your neighbors are either fat/obese and that at least 33% of their children are fat/obese also. The reason why health care costs so much isn't because of the government, it's because of comorbidities and the fact that the healthiness of Americans is turning into a tub of lard.

Say little Johnny was overweight as a child because his parents fed him kraft macaroni and cheese and mcdonalds every day of his life. He grows up, is still overweight, loses his insulin making abilities because he eats so much sugar/carbs and becomes a type 2 diabetic. His health insurance will pay out of pocket usually, every cost ranging from insulin to blood glucose strips to his insulin pump. This was all avoidable, yet increases costs for everyone else because the insurance company must pay for little Johnny's avoidable type 2 diabetes. Scenarios like this are becoming the norm in America which is why I think we need an overhaul of healthiness in society.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that every single person goes to the doctor for little minor injuries and treatable illnesses like colds. This is all being paid by the insurance companies, who are billed by the very same doctors. America is turning into a prescription happy country that turns to doctors for every little thing. Does little Susan have the sniffles? Let's go see Dr. Patel to get our prescription for penicillin which will costs us $300 for the visit + medicine costs. Multiply this by 10000000 and you have our current health care system.

Believe me, the government isn't why insurance costs are so high - which is what I'd expect a moderate to say.
 
You can't seriously tell me that why I the allergy medicine I have to take is anywhere NEAR worth what they charge for it. It's not the doctor's that are a problem, its the insurance companys. Did you know that docters often have to FIGHT against them, yes fight against them, because they wont allow a certain medicine to be given to a patient?

Pokemonsforgeeks, there is no way in the world that it cost the doctors or the insurance company 300 for a few drugs or the visit. They charge so much for just walking in the door its stupid. If you don't think that they make way more than they should, then please explain why most docters are among the wealthiest people in the country?
 
^^^ Little Johnny -- LAWL!

Wealth determines access, even in countries with single-payer systems. For instance, in the UK certain experimental cancer treatments are not covered by public insurance. What do wealthy cancer patients do? Leave the country and spend megabuxx on said treatments.

But we're not likely to get any new entitlements here -- I'm guessing we'll probably just have an insurance coverage law with subsidies for the poor (ie - Massachusetts' system; subsidies for the insurance industry). A better solution? Give me direct access to so-called "prescription drugs" so that I don't have to waste an afternoon and $100 on a sinus infection. Who really wants to go to the doctor?
 
DarthPika said:
You can't seriously tell me that why I the allergy medicine I have to take is anywhere NEAR worth what they charge for it. It's not the doctor's that are a problem, its the insurance companys. Did you know that docters often have to FIGHT against them, yes fight against them, because they wont allow a certain medicine to be given to a patient?

Pokemonsforgeeks, there is no way in the world that it cost the doctors or the insurance company 300 for a few drugs or the visit. They charge so much for just walking in the door its stupid. If you don't think that they make way more than they should, then please explain why most docters are among the wealthiest people in the country?
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Pika, I definitely agree that doctors make wayy more than they should - but then go ask a pre-med student and ask why he/she is becoming a doctor. They'll probably respond with "the money." I'm guessing they make a lot because of all the years of study + the knowledge they need to know (which is funny because every doctor I've been to is an idiot) + the fact that they need to pay so much in malpractice insurance. I also love how every middle-eastern/Indian in the world is coming to america to become a doctor. I'm not racist or anything but when's the last time you saw an Indian kindergarten teacher?

I also think there needs to be more competition in the health insurance market.. I mean, how can you turn away someone because they have type 1 diabetes? How is that any different from turning away a black person because of color? That's just blatant discrimination imo.
 
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Health care is way too expensive. I broke my leg skiing in February, and the cost of the 30 minute ambulance ride was $700. All they did was check my heart beat and oxygen rate. That price is absurd. The crutches were hundreds of dollars but probably costed $4 to make. And I'll never use them again.

Maybe we should rent out health equipment!
 
Chairman Kaga said:
And who encourages the suits to be filed in the first place? The guy taking 75% of the award as his attorney's fee, that's who.
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Does it matter, the juries are still deciding them, obviously they saw fit to see that the guy got his money. If encouragement is the problem, why don't the juries just rule in favor of the doctor every time?
 
I believe the system as we know it doesn't work between insurance and the health care industries but I don't believe that the govt. should be any part of this other than to make some regulations.

It's also not just "unhealthy" people that run up the cost of health care. It's also the idiots that run to the doctor every time they have a cold. Oh, and let's not forget those healthy athletic people that run up the cost as well with their sports injuries, MRIs, physical therapy, etc.

Most of the poverty level people in this country have access to Medicaid. As for the middle class that are not insured, I believe this goes along with personal responsibility. You look around at America and how people live beyond their means but they have a nice new car in the driveway and credit cards all charged up from trips to the mall and yet they complain about not having health insurance. Why? Because they want to whine and have someone else take care of what they should be doing. Going to the mall or on vacation to Disney is so much better than paying for health insurance.

If Obama is your hero... well your hero wanted to bill our veterans' private insurance company if he could for services they received at the VA hospital. He only dropped the plan after it became apparent that it would not go over well.

Yes, the system is broken but it will continue to be, even the Messiah can't fix this one without making a bigger mess.

If you really have a bleeding heart and think all Americans should be taken care of ,use your time wisely and get involved in groups or a church. That's when people unite for a common cause in the community and help take care of each other rather than have some politician pick your pockets to do so... run the money through the system and come out with less than 10% of it by the time they are done handling it for us.

Knock that one around in your brain, everything our government "pays" for is just like someone coming up grabbing your wallet and then them deciding how much they are going to take out of it. Neat huh!
 
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