How will ex's affect the meta today?
- Thread starter deathring109
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darth_vader
New Member
How is Cobalion/Mewtwo supposed to work? There's no energy acceleration there. Plus, Cobalion needs 3 energy for its strongest attack and Mewtwo EX also needs that many energy for Psycho drive.
+Gardevoir/Mewtwo
You could make a CaKE M deck, so you eat the cake then say mmm afterwards because of how tasty it was.
For weezing it is stage 1. It will not work end of story.
Let's look at your argument here.
- Kyurem beats Mew.
- Your better off using x and y for no explained reason.
- Nothing else.
Ok you say because Mew Prime loses to Kyurem it cannot beat Mewtwo EX. Can you explain that? If pokemon x beats y, but loses to z. How does that change the fact that x beats y? You don't have to run 4 Mew Prime nothing else. You can run other things as well. Mew Prime is a good counter for it and you're denying that. You actually do trade 1 for 2 there and it is basic so it is swarmable.
Your second argument is that pokemon x and y are better for no reason. This is a great argument.
Oh and you had nothing else.
As I said Mewtwo EX, Mew Prime and Cobalion will be good. Weezing will not work.
I might as well make an argument against Weezing.
Weezing DOES NOT OHKO Eviolite Mewtwo. Weezing KOs itself so you trade 2 prizes for 2 so you won't be getting an upper hand. Weezing is stage 1. It takes too much time to set up.
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Wait what? How is it 2 prizes for 2? You don't take 2 prizes for self-KOing. Oh and pluspower definitely doesn't exist..
Ok let's look at this:
Mewtwo takes a poke out (1 for 0)
You take Mewtwo out, but yourself as well (2 for 2)
Another Mewtwo takes a poke out (3 for 2)
You take yourself out and another Mewtwo (4 for 4)
See that?
Also I didn't say that you don't have a pluspower I was just pointing it out that you need a stage 1 with a pluspower to OHKO a basic with an eviolite... Not exactly good. Mew is just overall better.
StormFront
New Member
Leavanny NV is a hard counter to any deck that tries to use Mew. What about cards like Max potion, Switch, Seeker, SSU. You won't 2 shot a smart Mewtwo player that easilly. They'll be three types of players come spring.
Ones who aren't prepared for Mewtwo < Ones who play Mewtwo < Ones who know how to play and counter Mewtwo
I was saying that Weezing is a bad counter in both of my previous posts. Mewtwo EX is the best choice against it IMO, but Mew Prime is second best. Noboby will run Leavanny and Max Potion, SSU, Switch and Seeker won't help when Mew Prime OHKOs.
I was just saying Mewtwo EX beats Weezing not the other way around...
When two Mewtwo go up against each other, a Leavanny tech will almost guarantee that you get rid of his Mewtwo before he can get rid of yours. If nothing else, I expect it to be played often enough to take into account.
Cobalion has been the best counter I seen posted in this thread so far.
But the problem is their is probably a mewtwo EX on the bench also, meaning theirs more than 1 out there.
Dont forget about Mewtwo EX combined with Gardevoir, which I think is in that same set, not sure.
Mewtwo EX and Gardevoir could potentially run the meta for a couple months.
But the problem is their is probably a mewtwo EX on the bench also, meaning theirs more than 1 out there.
Dont forget about Mewtwo EX combined with Gardevoir, which I think is in that same set, not sure.
Mewtwo EX and Gardevoir could potentially run the meta for a couple months.
Otaku
Active Member
While I cannot see the future, I am more than familiar with the past. A few players have brought up Weezing (HeartGold/SoulSilver 34/123; Call of Legends 38/95). I have not run this card. In formats past, including multiple that featured the previous generation of Pokemon ex, my primary deck was Liability, built around this Weezing (EX Deoxys 51/107).
If I go into too much detail, I'll lose people. In short, while not a World Championship deck Liability had its adherents and one went undefeated at the Grinder (exactly which I don't remember, EX Deoxys stayed legal for two or three formats). If it wasn't a top deck, it was still a solid one to look out for. How it worked was simple: have Weezing use Liability and drop the defending Pokemon to 10 HP. Yeah Weezing was gone and your opponent took a Prize, but if you were running the deck properly, between turns something finished off the Defending Pokemon. There were various cards that would do that in the format (some Stage 2 Pokemon with Poke-Bodies, some Stadiums). In the end you traded a Stage 1 with an Energy for whatever was most valuable to your opponent.
The current Weezing last printed in Call of Legends is not the Liability Weezing. Liability required just :colorless: to use, and for :grass::colorless: (which a single Double Rainbow Energy (multiple printings)- still legal at the time - could provide) enabled the most excellent Smogscreen attack. Super Poison Breath is a poor replacement, just Poisoning for
sychic: and offering no protection. There is no Pow! Hand Extension (EX Team Rocket Returns 85/109) to allow a clever Weezing player to manipulate the Prize count so that said player enjoys a Gust of Wind while that player's opponent does not; instead both players will have access to Pokemon Catcher.
The current Weezing does have some strengths the old one did not have. At least for the purpose of taking out Mewtwo EX, the typing is of course better, but that might backfire for other Pokemon so I won't count that. The HP is not an advantage, since it has just been adjusted for power creep: 90 now is in fact probably no better or even less safe than 70 HP back then. Super Explosion does not place damage counters, but does actual damage. The bad news is that blocking damage counter placement is much harder than blocking damage, but the good news is that increasing damage done is much easier than adding extra counters. Of course, it also does a flat 90 damage, not automatically lowering HP to 10. If it did more damage, then I'd favor the flat doing of damage.
Still 90 is not nothing. Here is where I it becomes apparent I am not writing off the current Weezing yet. Weezing decks will be designed to abuse cards like N (established by how the old Weezing used Rocket's Admin.). The old Weezing didn't have Twins or Black Belt or Defender or PlusPower (and couldn't have made use of Black Belt or PlusPower for Liability anyway). I am wondering if Kingdra Prime would be helpful.
I'd still say major pieces are missing from the equation, but this shows promise. Mewtwo EX without Eviolite will be a sitting duck for a OHKO, even if that OHKO requires a Stage 1 and Double Colorless Energy. If Mewtwo EX rushes for an early Prize, it sets up for Twins, which makes it likely that Weezing will be there to score a "revenge" KO. If Mewtwo EX doesn't push for an early Prize... that just gives a deck built around Weezing time to set-up.
What about the fact that Mewtwo EX will almost certainly have Eviolite? Well Weezing has plenty of options as well. Eviolite doesn't stack, but unless Mewtwo EX is backed by Vileplume, the Weezing player's deck will likely be designed so that Weezing is backed by one PlusPower and one Defender. Super Explosion doesn't apply Weakness to the damage Weezing does to itself, but PlusPower now does apply before Weakness and Resistance. So the net result of the combo is even a Mewtwo with Eviolite is OHKOed, while Weezing hangs on with 10 HP to absorb another attack. If your opponent uses Pokemon Catcher to bypass Weezing and go for a more important target... you get to blow Weezing up again! For those who point out it takes a lot of cards to do this... yes it does. This is how to run Weezing in its own deck, not as a minor splash in another deck. Still, even without Defender you take down Mewtwo EX: if Mewtwo EX has Eviolite, it is only fair to assume Weezing will have PlusPower or maybe even Black Belt.
The real concern is how a Weezing focused deck handles everything else. Without exploiting Weakness, that 90 damage is pretty poor... but not useless. This is part of what I meant by "missing piece" of the combo. Maybe Weezing will blow itself up for Gothetelle decks, delivering solid damage while "getting out of the way". Maybe with access to Twins and Black Belt, Super Explosion will be adequate. You're losing a Stage 1 Pokemon, probably a Double Colorless Energy, and you'll need Black Belt, but that's a quick 140 point whack. Hmm... with two Benched Kindgra Prime, few things survive that.
tl;dr: I don't know what future sets will bring. We might get more anti-Pokemon EX cards. We might get more support for them. Weezing with Super Explosion is the "update" of Weezing with Liability, and the latter was a presence in the game. Don't bank on Weezing becoming the defacto Mewtwo EX counter. Do keep an eye on it and don't write it off yet. That is just being prudent.
If I go into too much detail, I'll lose people. In short, while not a World Championship deck Liability had its adherents and one went undefeated at the Grinder (exactly which I don't remember, EX Deoxys stayed legal for two or three formats). If it wasn't a top deck, it was still a solid one to look out for. How it worked was simple: have Weezing use Liability and drop the defending Pokemon to 10 HP. Yeah Weezing was gone and your opponent took a Prize, but if you were running the deck properly, between turns something finished off the Defending Pokemon. There were various cards that would do that in the format (some Stage 2 Pokemon with Poke-Bodies, some Stadiums). In the end you traded a Stage 1 with an Energy for whatever was most valuable to your opponent.
The current Weezing last printed in Call of Legends is not the Liability Weezing. Liability required just :colorless: to use, and for :grass::colorless: (which a single Double Rainbow Energy (multiple printings)- still legal at the time - could provide) enabled the most excellent Smogscreen attack. Super Poison Breath is a poor replacement, just Poisoning for
sychic: and offering no protection. There is no Pow! Hand Extension (EX Team Rocket Returns 85/109) to allow a clever Weezing player to manipulate the Prize count so that said player enjoys a Gust of Wind while that player's opponent does not; instead both players will have access to Pokemon Catcher.The current Weezing does have some strengths the old one did not have. At least for the purpose of taking out Mewtwo EX, the typing is of course better, but that might backfire for other Pokemon so I won't count that. The HP is not an advantage, since it has just been adjusted for power creep: 90 now is in fact probably no better or even less safe than 70 HP back then. Super Explosion does not place damage counters, but does actual damage. The bad news is that blocking damage counter placement is much harder than blocking damage, but the good news is that increasing damage done is much easier than adding extra counters. Of course, it also does a flat 90 damage, not automatically lowering HP to 10. If it did more damage, then I'd favor the flat doing of damage.
Still 90 is not nothing. Here is where I it becomes apparent I am not writing off the current Weezing yet. Weezing decks will be designed to abuse cards like N (established by how the old Weezing used Rocket's Admin.). The old Weezing didn't have Twins or Black Belt or Defender or PlusPower (and couldn't have made use of Black Belt or PlusPower for Liability anyway). I am wondering if Kingdra Prime would be helpful.
I'd still say major pieces are missing from the equation, but this shows promise. Mewtwo EX without Eviolite will be a sitting duck for a OHKO, even if that OHKO requires a Stage 1 and Double Colorless Energy. If Mewtwo EX rushes for an early Prize, it sets up for Twins, which makes it likely that Weezing will be there to score a "revenge" KO. If Mewtwo EX doesn't push for an early Prize... that just gives a deck built around Weezing time to set-up.
What about the fact that Mewtwo EX will almost certainly have Eviolite? Well Weezing has plenty of options as well. Eviolite doesn't stack, but unless Mewtwo EX is backed by Vileplume, the Weezing player's deck will likely be designed so that Weezing is backed by one PlusPower and one Defender. Super Explosion doesn't apply Weakness to the damage Weezing does to itself, but PlusPower now does apply before Weakness and Resistance. So the net result of the combo is even a Mewtwo with Eviolite is OHKOed, while Weezing hangs on with 10 HP to absorb another attack. If your opponent uses Pokemon Catcher to bypass Weezing and go for a more important target... you get to blow Weezing up again! For those who point out it takes a lot of cards to do this... yes it does. This is how to run Weezing in its own deck, not as a minor splash in another deck. Still, even without Defender you take down Mewtwo EX: if Mewtwo EX has Eviolite, it is only fair to assume Weezing will have PlusPower or maybe even Black Belt.
The real concern is how a Weezing focused deck handles everything else. Without exploiting Weakness, that 90 damage is pretty poor... but not useless. This is part of what I meant by "missing piece" of the combo. Maybe Weezing will blow itself up for Gothetelle decks, delivering solid damage while "getting out of the way". Maybe with access to Twins and Black Belt, Super Explosion will be adequate. You're losing a Stage 1 Pokemon, probably a Double Colorless Energy, and you'll need Black Belt, but that's a quick 140 point whack. Hmm... with two Benched Kindgra Prime, few things survive that.
tl;dr: I don't know what future sets will bring. We might get more anti-Pokemon EX cards. We might get more support for them. Weezing with Super Explosion is the "update" of Weezing with Liability, and the latter was a presence in the game. Don't bank on Weezing becoming the defacto Mewtwo EX counter. Do keep an eye on it and don't write it off yet. That is just being prudent.
Yeah I am going to be sure to reserve some Mewtwo EXs because I just can see these being more expensive than Parichirisu.
ogremarauder
New Member
It's more like cobalion with mewtwo teched in. You don't HAVE to play nrg accel to play mewtwo. Also, if you are locking your opponent out of attacking, you have time to place nrg on mewtwo.
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