How would Sabledonk be played under BW rules?

[StormFront]

I've been hearing a lot in terms of how Sabledonk will become an unstoppable deck under the new BW rules. Currently there is three things which stop Uxie Donk from being a dominent deck.

1. SP can use call energy and fill up the bench with high HP basics and then power spray an uxie drop
2. Going 1st drastically reduces your chances of getting a donk. Your opponent can fill up there bench with pokemon collector, hit you with disruption techs like Mesprit and possibly get donked itself.
3. Spiritomb and Gastly starts.

The only thing a Sabledonk can't seem get around is a Spiritomb start. I assume a special darkness energy would need to be used in order to take advantage of overconfident. If the oponent has only 1-2 starters which is likely when going first.


FTR I don't like playing with or against Uxiedonk, or encourage anyone to play it.

 

[Zumanity]

Collector + Unown Dark + 2 Crobats = 70 without Trainers

 

[Porii Sames]

I've been hearing a lot in terms of how Sabledonk will become an unstoppable deck under the new BW rules. Currently there is three things which stop Uxie Donk from being a dominent deck.

1. SP can use call energy and fill up the bench with high HP basics and then power spray an uxie drop
2. Going 1st drastically reduces your chances of getting a donk. Your opponent can fill up there bench with pokemon collector, hit you with disruption techs like Mesprit and possibly get donked itself.
3. Spiritomb and Gastly starts.

The only thing a Sabledonk can't seem get around is a Spiritomb start. I assume a special darkness energy would need to be used in order to take advantage of overconfident. If the oponent has only 1-2 starters which is likely when going first.


FTR I don't like playing with or against Uxiedonk, or encourage anyone to play it.

Sabledonk will become nigh unstoppable if the rules are implemented...

I like donk decks tho, so I don't really mind THAT deck overcentralizing, but I don't like overcentralizing at all...

I mean, it will be Sabledonk (plain, Sablockdonk, and Sabledosdonk) vs. Vilegar (or any plume deck really, I could see Magneplume working) vs. Dialgachomp. Play one, you beat one, and lose to another.

 

[bullados]

Sabledonk will not work. Dropping the 5 cards necessary for Sabledonk into Uxie Quadra Donk, however, and you'll see some very not nice things happen...

 

[Porii Sames]

^Y not?

You get to go first all of the time if you start Sableye, and get to use trainers, and an attack that does 40 for one...

Maybe odds of starting Sableye are low?

 

[Psyco Pedestrian]

You still can't play Supports Turn 1, only Trainers.

 

[Porii Sames]

^Yeah so you could only Triple donk them, which is still pretty good.

 

[Zumanity]

Oh, my bad I thought you could play Supporters T1

 

[StormFront]

You still can't play Supports Turn 1, only Trainers.

You can play T/S/S on your first turn (except for rare candy).

 

[Thiago]

I think you can use T/S/S in your first turn, but you can't attack.

 

[StormFront]

Of course you can attack, otherwise I never would have created this topic.

 

[waynegg]

This is what the translated rules say:

Pokemon BW: New Rules
Abilities: The BW series introduces Pokemon that have "abilities." Abilities are a Pokemon's powers other than its attacks. If you have a Pokemon with an ability in play, you can use that ability during your turn. There are also abilities with effects that only work when a Pokemon is brought into play, and there are abilities that can't be used if you don't meet certain requirements, so read the explanatory text written on the card carefully. Note: The way Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodies from the LEGEND series and earlier are used hasn't changed. Also, abilities, Poke-Powers, and Poke-Bodies are treated as different types of powers. For example, if you used an attack that does 10 damage to Pokemon with Poke-Powers, it wouldn't affect Pokemon with Poke-Bodies or abilities.
Trainers: Starting with the BW series, "Trainer" cards are called "Trainer's" cards. Although the classification has changed, if multiple cards have the same name, they're treated as the same card. The Trainer card “Pokeball” from the LEGEND series and the Trainer’s card “Pokeball” included in the BW Starter Set are the same card.
Using Trainer's on the first turn of the game: The player going first can now use Trainer's cards on the first turn of the game. Trainer cards from the LEGEND series and earlier can also be used.
Supporters: Starting with the BW series, cards called "Supporters" are now "Support" cards. Moreover, the rule stating that to use a Support card you must place it next to your Active Pokemon and discard it at the end of your turn is gone. After using a Support card, don't leave it in play, discard it immediately. Immediately discard Supporter cards from the LEGEND series and earlier, as well.

Now they aren't official until released in the U.S so this could change I suppose, but I don't see anywhere it saying you can use supporters on your going-first-first-turn. In fact the only change concerning Supporters is that they are discarded when played instead of being left beside your active Pokemon. I'm pretty sure that as of right now, Austin is correct.

 

[Hikari_Netto]

This is what the translated rules say:

Now they aren't official until released in the U.S so this could change I suppose, but I don't see anywhere it saying you can use supporters on your going-first-first-turn. In fact the only change concerning Supporters is that they are discarded when played instead of being left beside your active Pokemon. I'm pretty sure that as of right now, Austin is correct.

Supporters fall under the "Trainer's card" umbrella. The new rules state you can play Trainer's cards on the first turn of the game which encompasses all T/S/S. I'd say it's pretty clear cut.

 

[Scipio]

Well, with or without supporters, given the proper engine Sableye can troll all. It can substitute the 4 Pluspowers for 4 Sableye and bam, there you go already...

 

[Skitty]

All you need to not auto-lose against this deck is to start with 2 or more basics. This will just mean is that people will need to play more basics in their decks.

 

[yoyofsho16]

Look at the BW cards. ALL T/S/S say "TRainer's" at the top. IT's all of them t1.

 

[eriknance]

All you need to not auto-lose against this deck is to start with 2 or more basics. This will just mean is that people will need to play more basics in their decks.

Uxie donk can Flash Bite their way to a KO or two on the bench, then Seeker the remaining benched Pokemon up, then KO the only remaining Pokemon. So I guess the only way to not auto-lose is a 5 Basic Pokemon start; to achieve this statistically, you should be running close to 43 Basic Pokemon in your deck. That sounds fun.

I don't think people are thinking this through enough. With B&W rules, the game is disgusting. Say I win the flip after benching 2 Pokemon and having a Call Energy in my hand. Looks pretty good, right? WRONG. My opponent opens with Sableye, going first. They play tons of trainers, drop Uxie and Crobat G a billion times to KO on benched Pokemon, play a Seeker to scoop the other one up, then donk me. To reiterate: I went from going first with a Call Energy and 3 Pokemon in play to getting donked. Sounds like something nobody would want to be a part of.

 

[Scipio]

All you need to not auto-lose against this deck is to start with 2 or more basics. This will just mean is that people will need to play more basics in their decks.

Crobat Poketurn Crobat Poketurn Crobat Junk Arm Poketurn Crobat Poketurn Crobat Junk Arm Poketurn Crobat Crobat Nr 2 Poketurn Junk Arm Poketurn Pokeblower Pokeblower Pokeblower Pokeblower Crobat 3

What was this about having 2 Pokemon again?

Ninjask'd by Eriknance.

 

[StormFront]

I threw together a sabledonk list and tested it against the several decks (except vilegar) and only one of the 20 games I failed to get a donk and that was against an SP deck which had 3 starters and power spray, starters being Dialga, Luxray and Lucario. Even though Dialga has 100hp its very easy for Sableye to take out with a Special Dark+Expert belt +3 flash bites/pokeblower.

All you need to not auto-lose against this deck is to start with 2

Far from it. If you have 2 starters your benched pokemon will be seekered and your active overconfidented, with help from a belt and a flash bite. If you have 3 you can seeker one and drop 4-10 damage counters on the remaining bench.

Here's the rough list I came up with. You'll notice how I haven't included pluspower, that is because its not needed and no longer attaches under BW rules.

POKEMON = 13

3 Crobat G
4 Sableye
3 Unown R
3 Uxie


T/S/S = 44

4 Dual Ball
2 Expert Belt
4 Junk Arm
1 Luxury ball
4 Poké Blower +
4 Poké Drawer +
4 Pokédex Handy
3 Pokemon Rescue
4 Quick Ball
2 Seeker
4 Super Scoop Up
4 TGI - Poké Turn
4 Victory Medal


Energy = 3

3 Special Darkness​

 

[Skitty]

Crobat Poketurn Crobat Poketurn Crobat Junk Arm Poketurn Crobat Poketurn Crobat Junk Arm Poketurn Crobat Crobat Nr 2 Poketurn Junk Arm Poketurn Pokeblower Pokeblower Pokeblower Pokeblower Crobat 3

What was this about having 2 Pokemon again?

Ninjask'd by Eriknance.

So you're saying that their starting hand would consist of Sableye, a Crobat G/Collector, 2x Poketurn, 2x Junk Arm and 4 Pokeblowers? That's a pretty specific had even with trainers/supporters on the first turn.

Far from it. If you have 2 starters your benched pokemon will be seekered and your active overconfidented, with help from a belt and a flash bite. If you have 3 you can seeker one and drop 4-10 damage counters on the remaining bench.

Here's the rough list I came up with. You'll notice how I haven't included pluspower, that is because its not needed and no longer attaches under BW rules.

POKEMON = 13

3 Crobat G
4 Sableye
3 Unown R
3 Uxie


T/S/S = 44

4 Dual Ball
2 Expert Belt
4 Junk Arm
1 Luxury ball
4 Poké Blower +
4 Poké Drawer +
4 Pokédex Handy
3 Pokemon Rescue
4 Quick Ball
2 Seeker
4 Super Scoop Up
4 TGI - Poké Turn
4 Victory Medal


Energy = 3

3 Special Darkness​

Assuming that both of my Pokemon have 60 HP each (the average) then you would need to get a Sableye, a dark energy and 7 of the following: Pokeblower/Super Scoop Up/Poketurn/Crobat G, or one Seeker. Still better, but I don't see you getting all of those in your hand consistantly. And then you still have to worry about getting heads on the Pokeblower and Super Scoop Up. That and if someone somehow starts with 4 basics (which won't happen much though) then you pretty muh auto-lose because you run out of stuff to do after 1-2 turns.