what i'm getting from the responses: keep worlds exclusive, so the 'good' players don't get donked by the randoms. but make it open enough that me and my friends are guaranteed the spot we 'deserve'...
mmmmmmkay...
'mom
mmmmmmkay...
'mom
I Propose Open Worlds With No Limit to the Number of Players
- Thread starter The Gorn
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Top Cut Comics
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Maybe this could help....Good conversation about worlds...
It is a thread I started some time ago. There are a lot of good points in there. You just need to weed thru the spammage...When I first brought this up, I was thinking about ALL the great players that I have faced in past years, months and even days. MOST of which are NOT gonna be competing in the WORLD championship. I am disheartend about this, as they are QUALITY players. I am not just speaking for players in my immediate area. I have played in every world championship that PUI has put on. I have played MANY players from around the world, all of which were formitable opponents.
In 2006, the best player in the world, Yamato, (still debatable) was NOT even able to play in the World Championship. This is not what I wanted to see. How can I call myself the SECOND BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD, if Yamato wasn't even playing to dispute that. Like in any competition, you gotta BEAT the best to BE the best. I dont feel that was the case that year. Even moreso, It wont be the case this year.
So now, onto a proposal.....
The world championship should be that.... WORLD Championship... Crown the best player in the world. The field for this should be endless. I want to play against anyone and everyone who thinks they can compete at that level. An OPEN event of sorts. If you can make it there, go there. I propose that this event has no invites and/or travel vouchers paid for by nintendo. It is after all for the biggest bragging rights in the world, people will show up to try and claim that title. I also suggest to make it fair to all, this particular event be held in DIFFERENT locations around the world yearly, to give everyone equal oppritunity to attend. If I knew about it 6-8 months prior to the event I'm sure I could save the money to get there. Do not try and say it would be a rich mans advantage. Communication would be key here.
Now, onto the whole "well what do we play for then??? Rankings, Qualifiers, Nationals... WHY BOTHER? you ask...
To solve this, I think PUI has it right on the money... A huge event celebrating all the hard work and effort put in by individuals. Winning tournaments, highest rankings in your country, travling throughout the year to play,etc... should all be invited to a tournament to celebrate that. A tropical mega battle, of sorts. This would be a tournament EXCLUSIVE to those who "did the time" to get the prize. This tournament would have all the bells and whistles of the current Worlds event, only a different name. (I propose its called The Jimmy Open) This would be a great event showcasing the players that "made the grade" for that season. This would eleviate all the bickering about the best players not able to compete in the world championship.
I really like what PUI has done for the game. While am one of their biggest critics, I also remember the days of Wizards eliminating the 15+. I think that they are in a process of "finding what works" to best suits us all. Our role in this is to provide them with constructive criticism along with some possible solutions. They do not know it all, and could use some honest feedback from the players to incorporate new and more player friendly structure to the game.
This is my suggestion to really highten the focus on a WORLD level. Who knows maybe some day it will happen.
Jimmy
It is a thread I started some time ago. There are a lot of good points in there. You just need to weed thru the spammage...When I first brought this up, I was thinking about ALL the great players that I have faced in past years, months and even days. MOST of which are NOT gonna be competing in the WORLD championship. I am disheartend about this, as they are QUALITY players. I am not just speaking for players in my immediate area. I have played in every world championship that PUI has put on. I have played MANY players from around the world, all of which were formitable opponents.
In 2006, the best player in the world, Yamato, (still debatable) was NOT even able to play in the World Championship. This is not what I wanted to see. How can I call myself the SECOND BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD, if Yamato wasn't even playing to dispute that. Like in any competition, you gotta BEAT the best to BE the best. I dont feel that was the case that year. Even moreso, It wont be the case this year.
So now, onto a proposal.....
The world championship should be that.... WORLD Championship... Crown the best player in the world. The field for this should be endless. I want to play against anyone and everyone who thinks they can compete at that level. An OPEN event of sorts. If you can make it there, go there. I propose that this event has no invites and/or travel vouchers paid for by nintendo. It is after all for the biggest bragging rights in the world, people will show up to try and claim that title. I also suggest to make it fair to all, this particular event be held in DIFFERENT locations around the world yearly, to give everyone equal oppritunity to attend. If I knew about it 6-8 months prior to the event I'm sure I could save the money to get there. Do not try and say it would be a rich mans advantage. Communication would be key here.
Now, onto the whole "well what do we play for then??? Rankings, Qualifiers, Nationals... WHY BOTHER? you ask...
To solve this, I think PUI has it right on the money... A huge event celebrating all the hard work and effort put in by individuals. Winning tournaments, highest rankings in your country, travling throughout the year to play,etc... should all be invited to a tournament to celebrate that. A tropical mega battle, of sorts. This would be a tournament EXCLUSIVE to those who "did the time" to get the prize. This tournament would have all the bells and whistles of the current Worlds event, only a different name. (I propose its called The Jimmy Open) This would be a great event showcasing the players that "made the grade" for that season. This would eleviate all the bickering about the best players not able to compete in the world championship.
I really like what PUI has done for the game. While am one of their biggest critics, I also remember the days of Wizards eliminating the 15+. I think that they are in a process of "finding what works" to best suits us all. Our role in this is to provide them with constructive criticism along with some possible solutions. They do not know it all, and could use some honest feedback from the players to incorporate new and more player friendly structure to the game.
This is my suggestion to really highten the focus on a WORLD level. Who knows maybe some day it will happen.
Jimmy
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Tego
New Member
I consider a true "world class player" someone who could realistically make the top cut at Worlds. Without any crazy luck. Someone who all-time favorites like BigChuck, Ness, Yamato, Miyamoto would actually find it challenging to play against in the Top 32 single elimination round if they were to meet, someone they'd not be able to crush by outplaying them.
Several of the US states has players of this calibre, and several European nations do. Many Japanese prefectures have got this kind of player as well.
Since every European Nation has their own chance at winning a Worlds invite, while each US State doesn't, it's harder to have all the world class US players get to Worlds than it is having all the European ones. The 1200-player marathon that is US Nats is possibly the one hardest tournament to win in the entire world. We tuck all of these great US players from all the great US states together in one tournament, and mix them with over 1100 "randoms" (or just people who haven't proven themselves the same way YET). In Europe, the best players can avoid each other easily, as the true world class players are distributed among many different countries.
However, if we want all the world class US players to play at Worlds, we also should want all the Japanese world class players to be there. Japan has an INSANE amount of players. And although winning Japan Nationals is easier than winning US Nats if you consider the number of participants and number of rounds, just getting invited to the invite-only Japan Nationals is ridiculously hard.
I don't see how it could be possible to have all the world's world class players present at every single Worlds. Although I'd love it, of course. As a judge, I love to see these Pokémon geniuses all together, battling it out. If we were to give up Worlds the way it is now, like some people suggest here, we would lose so much. I love what PCI and Pokémon Company Japan is doing to Worlds. The Worlds preconstructed decks, the awesome photo gallery results website they have in Japan (did everyone see that?) - all this post-Worlds marketing is so cool, and so good for the game. How can we keep this if we were to drop Worlds the way it is now, and let it be replaced by the two events "gigantic STS with 90 % Americans and some foreigners" and "Tropical Mega Battle Reborn"?
I think it's impossible to make everyone happy. (But as of now, I guess I just think making the US invite system a bit more satisfactory/fair would be the best approach, rather than giving up the invite-only Worlds entirely)
Several of the US states has players of this calibre, and several European nations do. Many Japanese prefectures have got this kind of player as well.
Since every European Nation has their own chance at winning a Worlds invite, while each US State doesn't, it's harder to have all the world class US players get to Worlds than it is having all the European ones. The 1200-player marathon that is US Nats is possibly the one hardest tournament to win in the entire world. We tuck all of these great US players from all the great US states together in one tournament, and mix them with over 1100 "randoms" (or just people who haven't proven themselves the same way YET). In Europe, the best players can avoid each other easily, as the true world class players are distributed among many different countries.
However, if we want all the world class US players to play at Worlds, we also should want all the Japanese world class players to be there. Japan has an INSANE amount of players. And although winning Japan Nationals is easier than winning US Nats if you consider the number of participants and number of rounds, just getting invited to the invite-only Japan Nationals is ridiculously hard.
I don't see how it could be possible to have all the world's world class players present at every single Worlds. Although I'd love it, of course. As a judge, I love to see these Pokémon geniuses all together, battling it out. If we were to give up Worlds the way it is now, like some people suggest here, we would lose so much. I love what PCI and Pokémon Company Japan is doing to Worlds. The Worlds preconstructed decks, the awesome photo gallery results website they have in Japan (did everyone see that?) - all this post-Worlds marketing is so cool, and so good for the game. How can we keep this if we were to drop Worlds the way it is now, and let it be replaced by the two events "gigantic STS with 90 % Americans and some foreigners" and "Tropical Mega Battle Reborn"?
I think it's impossible to make everyone happy. (But as of now, I guess I just think making the US invite system a bit more satisfactory/fair would be the best approach, rather than giving up the invite-only Worlds entirely)
meganium45
Active Member
The bar keeps getting raised every year.
It gets harder and harder for US Players to qualify.
I had 2 kids who proclaimed they took the year "off", and missed qualifying.
You know what...they regret it. They are going to miss out on the party that is Worlds, and they don't like that.
They also don't like that they are going to stay home while my wife and I go.
I want worlds to be something they have to earn, have to work for.
Had they tried their hardest, and missed, then I would have a different opinion, but to take this season so casually, and then be depressed was a good thing.
Worlds is not a party everyone should be able to qualify for every year.
It should be an extrordinary accomplishment that one gets to enjoy every other year or every few years if they really try, and have a successful year.
I think one problem is that noone should feel that they are entitled to play at Worlds every year, no matter the player, just due to the sheer amount of skilled players in this game.
Vince
It gets harder and harder for US Players to qualify.
I had 2 kids who proclaimed they took the year "off", and missed qualifying.
You know what...they regret it. They are going to miss out on the party that is Worlds, and they don't like that.
They also don't like that they are going to stay home while my wife and I go.
I want worlds to be something they have to earn, have to work for.
Had they tried their hardest, and missed, then I would have a different opinion, but to take this season so casually, and then be depressed was a good thing.
Worlds is not a party everyone should be able to qualify for every year.
It should be an extrordinary accomplishment that one gets to enjoy every other year or every few years if they really try, and have a successful year.
I think one problem is that noone should feel that they are entitled to play at Worlds every year, no matter the player, just due to the sheer amount of skilled players in this game.
Vince
The_Lurb
New Member
Even if your kids decided to take the year off, isn't San Diego still a nice family vacation? Seems a bit mean to leave them at home. I mean they don't have to play in worlds to stil enjoy the atmosphere, playing fun games, trying their luck at the grinder, etc....
On topic: Silly idea, the purpose of worlds is to have a prestigous event, not one everyone can play in.
On topic: Silly idea, the purpose of worlds is to have a prestigous event, not one everyone can play in.
meganium45
Active Member
Lurb
Or, I could be making a point that they have to earn the spot, and taking the year off will not get them what they want.
Sometimes there is value in a lesson that rewards have to be earned.
We have our vacations, this one would be prohibitively expensive for my family of 6.
Vince
Or, I could be making a point that they have to earn the spot, and taking the year off will not get them what they want.
Sometimes there is value in a lesson that rewards have to be earned.
We have our vacations, this one would be prohibitively expensive for my family of 6.
Vince
London? :wink:
Was that an attempt at political satire? Bravo! Now spell the name of the place correctly :wink:
That's quite insulting actually. First of, because the OP is The Gorn - how often is he spammy, and secondly, why shouldn't all OPs get the benefit of the doubt unless the post is obvious nonsense?
You know, I'm liking your brand of sarcasm more and more these days... :wink:
What is the point of such a tournament? Getting people from all over the world to play? If so, what most people are saying are true - either
1) You'll get a vast influx of Americans and very little else (assuming its hosted in the US), or
2) Very little will play (assuming its hosted outside US)
SuperWooper
New Member
Sandslash7
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
I don't see how that'll be any harder than it is now. Worlds is an individual event, not a national event. Sure, people are recognized by what country they are from, but it's the players individual skill that determines the winner. The US could have ONE person at the event, but if that player was better than all the others, that player would probably win. (minus donks, but I'm ignoring those for now)
Take for example Ness, easily one of the best US players ever.
It's not luck he won Worlds TWICE, [plus the TMB] he's skilled, maybe more skilled than anyone. It doesn't matter who he would go up against, he would win, whether the field was 10 to 1 Europeans or 10 to 1 Martians. I don't know of many people who've said: Oh, it was some American who won worlds. They've always said: Oh, it was Ness who won worlds. This is an individual event. Individuals win worlds.
Worlds is all about trying to find the best PLAYER in the world, not the best country/continent.
Rulemaster
New Member
have fun playing a top 512...invite only plz, forever
True, it would be truly amazing to have huge amounts of players from all over competing in one tournament, but that's not really what worlds is about. It's about the BEST players from all over the world competing and getting to know each other! If you didn't have to work for the invite and prove that you were deserving of competing among the best players in the world, then that would diminish the whole concept. Just being able to say that you were good enough to get the invite and compete is an honor. If everyone could compete, then it would just be like nationals with some additional players from other countries and yeah. The awe of walking into that room and seeing everything layed out in front of you, making you realize what a big deal it is, taking that away would ruin the whole thing.
In conclusion, there's a sense of pride in competing at Worlds, and if you made it an open event, that sense of pride would not exist.
In conclusion, there's a sense of pride in competing at Worlds, and if you made it an open event, that sense of pride would not exist.
afstandopleren
New Member
best players from all over the world: Mainly Americans
In all seriousness, I agree with scipio that it should be held in Europe first before coming up with an plan for open worlds.
In all seriousness, I agree with scipio that it should be held in Europe first before coming up with an plan for open worlds.
I got a question.
People don't like the lack of invites, because it means that many really good players miss out on playing in the tournament.
People are okay with the event traveling to other countries, yet if it did travel outside the USA, many really good players would miss out on playing in the tournament because they couldn't afford to fly around the world.
What is the difference?
What is the definition of good? Where is the line drawn? If they doubled USA invites, couldn't there still be many good players that miss out on playing? What if they tripled it, wouldn't it be the same?
My conclusion is that there is no answer to this topic. There will never be a tournament that has all the good players at it. Even the use of 'good player' can be different in different peoples' eyes. The players you may consider not 'good' may be considered 'good' to other people. Nobody has the ability to deem certain people good enough or not good enough to play in an event like Worlds.
I am sure people will address their concerns every year, regardless of the system. It just won't accomplish much.
Make it open, people cry over bad luck. Keep it closed, people cry over their friends not being there. There is no perfect scenario. There is no pleasing everyone.
There is no use.
People don't like the lack of invites, because it means that many really good players miss out on playing in the tournament.
People are okay with the event traveling to other countries, yet if it did travel outside the USA, many really good players would miss out on playing in the tournament because they couldn't afford to fly around the world.
What is the difference?
What is the definition of good? Where is the line drawn? If they doubled USA invites, couldn't there still be many good players that miss out on playing? What if they tripled it, wouldn't it be the same?
My conclusion is that there is no answer to this topic. There will never be a tournament that has all the good players at it. Even the use of 'good player' can be different in different peoples' eyes. The players you may consider not 'good' may be considered 'good' to other people. Nobody has the ability to deem certain people good enough or not good enough to play in an event like Worlds.
I am sure people will address their concerns every year, regardless of the system. It just won't accomplish much.
Make it open, people cry over bad luck. Keep it closed, people cry over their friends not being there. There is no perfect scenario. There is no pleasing everyone.
There is no use.
pat460
New Member
afstandopleren
New Member
I understand why that is. There is no 100% in life. But I do believe in a golden middle road, where the best of both ideas meet. Anyone got any suggestions as how to make that happen?
Scipio
New Member
Oh, it may be the same as what we had last year with GG and Empoleon. Empoleon was considered to be the better deck but because there was so many GG, GG won in the end. People held that argument against Kingdra during ABR's - other decks were considered better but due to the sheer amount of Kingdra decks, Kingdra won.
Now transfer from decks to players and you'll see where I'm coming from. Ofcourse I'm first to admit that a player like Ness is very good and all that, don't get me wrong. But if the ratios are flipped over, then there are more Europeans having a shot, thus automatically tilting the odds towards the Europeans. Same if you held it in Japan, for that matter. It would allow several groups of Europeans to join in:
- Those who won an invite but can't go due to expenses (You might forget how we pay around 5 times as much at the very least)
- Those who COULD grind in but dont feel like shelling out 2000 dollars just for a CHANCE of getting into worlds.
Adding those two groups in, and then substracting the amount of AMERICANS who can't make it due to the travelling restrictions imposed on THEM, and the playing field is suddenly much more in favor of Europe.
Ofcourse, the best (and luckiest) player will still win, but the odds of it being an European will be at least 5 times as high.
Pokemon can do what it does best - try it and see what happens.
Open it up one year and, if there is such an outcry that Open Worlds was terrible, make it an invitation-only event again.
I believe that it would be an event of such epic proportions that you couldn't undo it.
Open it up one year and, if there is such an outcry that Open Worlds was terrible, make it an invitation-only event again.
I believe that it would be an event of such epic proportions that you couldn't undo it.
we ran out of competitor t-shirts at us nationals this year. how would TPCi be able to calculate the number of shirts to order for an 'open' worlds?
not to mention the VERY nice competitor gift bags given out each year. the contents of those would likely have to go down significantly...IF they were handed out at all...at an 'open' worlds. people are already complaining that there isn't 'enough' given to the participants in the grinder...
'mom
not to mention the VERY nice competitor gift bags given out each year. the contents of those would likely have to go down significantly...IF they were handed out at all...at an 'open' worlds. people are already complaining that there isn't 'enough' given to the participants in the grinder...
'mom
DarthPika
New Member
Mom, I for one wouldn't care about all that stuff. I just would like the chance to be able to go and play against people from all over the world. I find it funny that they give college money for winning big events, yet they make it next to impossible for those who are in college to get an invite. :/ I love the game, but College has to come first. I love the idea of an open worlds, and if not worlds, some MAJOR all countries are invited type of event. As it stands, the people with the most time, money and the best PTO's get invites. It's really not very fair to the rest of us who don't have such ideal conditions.
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