Is HL the Answer to a Balanced Modified?

[Scyther_trainer]

Now that all the pre-releases are done, and Hidden Legends is officially released, I'd like to see what player's opinions are on how Modified will change.

First of all, this is not a poll. I want in depth discussion of what cards will change the environment and which cards are a near miss.

Here are my opinions:

Crobat: wow. Triple Poison for GC with no flips... OMG! This thing can really start laying on the hurt turn two!

Electrode: When I saw Electrode in the Translations, I thought this would be a very playable card. Just bring it out against an Ex and BOOM! 2 prizes for 1. you could even use it to take down normal pokes if you were ahead in prizes. However, I've heard talk on the board that this is one of those cards that's only good "on paper" and not practical. Costing 5 cards to do Mass Destruction (voltorb, electrode, 3 NRG) might not be very economical. It would've been a LOT more deadly if you could use Boost, but you can't. a cost of CCC means you can splash it in most any deck, and a 30 damage Swift for L isn't too bad either.


Jirachi: This is a pretty neat card. Make a wish reminds me of good 'ol Dark Dragonair (I miss him ); however, it's an attack. So that means he must be active and using it ends your turn. It might find a niche.


Machamp: Machamp starts off this sets theme of being an anti-ex set. If your opponent has any Pokemon-ex in play (and who doesn't these days), all machamp's attacks get boosted by 30. That means that instead of doing 40 and 60/90. He's now doing 70 and 90/120! What a beast! He is weak to Psychic though, so he still has to look out for Gardy.


Metagross: Kinda like an Ampharos for Metal types. I'm sure there's a metal-themed deck in this set somewhere. I just have to find it....


Milotic: Now here's a fire-killer. Distorted Wave will KO any fire type in the format today. Other than that, this pokemon reminds me of the Light pokemon from Neo Destiny. Are the benefits worth the risk of helping your opponent?


Walrein: There are some nice combos here. While Oracle is still in the format, you can guaruntee 2 extra energy attachments per turn. After Modified rotates, you might be able to use Pokenav for this. Its attack is solid. Not as damaging a Milotic, but it costs one less energy. I could see these 2 together.


Chimecho: Another cute little tech card. First attack reminds me of Sabrina's Psychic Control, but I think this is better.


Gorebyss: This is that card that was the powerhouse in out pre-release. We've dubbed Gorebyss "Gardevoir-in-Training". This card has obvious uses for tech in GEX decks. (Although BEX is weak to P and W.... <shrugs>)


Ninetails: Yes! I've been waiting for this one. Now we have another choice instead of Wobby for anti-ex tech. I can just imagine the Wobby-Nintails anti-ex decks that will surface from this.


Relicanth: I'm going to make a 2-on-2 deck with Relicanth and AQ Hypno. Just watch the fun.... He'll also work well in 2-on-2 with a Hypno coming out in the next set.


Corsola: yay, more Techy cards. It's like Steven's advice as an attack. This was also a beast at our pre-release.


Igglybuff: It ain't no Dunsparce, but it tries hard.


Swalot: This is the Pokemon that everyone went gaga over when the translations came out. So how does it stack up? Well, it has the potential to do that magical 80 damage, the only problem is, Swalot has to have more HP than the Defending pokemon, which means it won't be OHKOing any ex's anytime soon.


Tentacruel: Man, if this thing isn't splashable, I don't know what is! C for either Confusion or an ER, then CC for toxic! wow!No retreat cost either (notice how the Stage 1's are now the pokemon that get the 0 retreat cost?)


Vulpix: The great thing about this Vulpix is its Acension attack. Now no matter which Ninetails your playing with. you know you'll have it out turn two every time!


Ancient TM [Rock]: Yeah, people have been talking about this for a while. People tried to make Omastar decks to take advantage of all the Candies floating around. Now (almost) anything can do a Pull Down. This will definitely cause an increase in the number of Stage 1's put into evo decks.


Ancient Tomb: Hmmmm, a "no Weakness" gym. I think any Metal deck is going to need this to guard against the rampant fire. Dragon decks can use it to guard against the random Crystal shards. This is a good 'default' gym.


Desert Ruins: This would definitely be in a Wobby-Ninetails anti EX deck. How well it does depends on how soon it get into play.


Steven's Advice: This is a much-anticipated Trainer. It is a little situational, but it can turn a game if played at the right time. Gardy ex will love it when it's opponent plays this one!


Ninetails ex: Hello Base Set Ninetails! at least a significantly pumped up version. Lure can be deadly, and its second attack is nothing to scoff at either. The only problem with this one it it's low HP. At least it gets around Desert Ruins....


Wigglytuff ex: Wiggly is back! People want to use it, but will they be able to?




Overall, I think the Hidden Legends goes a long way towards trying to balance the current Modified Environment. There is a decent amount of anti-ex cards in here and lots of positive effects that exclude ex pokemon.

Only time will tell if this set it the answer to a balanced modified.


I want to know what everyone else thinks. Agree? Disagree? Did I miss something?

 

[Orange Soda]

I think you could combo Electrode with Firestarter Blaziken. Have two Blaziken and 3 Voltorb/Electrode on the bench, with a 4th Active. The active one is already powered up, and then use both Firestarter to attach 2 :fire: to a benched Voltorb/Electrode, then use a normal energy attach for the third energy. If the active is Voltorb, use Wally, then use Mass Destruction. Send up another one. Lather, rinse, repeat. It'd be toast if Bllaziken EX got going fast, but I suppose it'd make a decent rogue deck (or red face paint, since there'd be plenty of red in it ).

 

[korythatsrightmare]

Chimecho: Nice card, if you purposly go second, and use oracle, then use the supporter that your opponent (supposedly) played during their turn, then you gain all of the cards you wanted. This card allows for double draw power.

Ninetales EX: This is an awesome card because it is great for early disruption of your opponents plans. Its second attack is more than desent.

Gorebyss: This is the most close to broken card in the set. It is good against the two main decks out there now a days. If used correctly it is broken.

Rock TM: This is nice because you can ruin a use of a rare candy. This will slow almost any deck down, and I can see some adjustments being made so everyone can use this in their deck.

Kyogre EX w/Walrein: Use kyogres attack to set more cards in the deck and use Walrein's power to attach more, it is also good doubled with Suicune. This is one of the fastest decks out there I think, until Blastoise EX, of course.

 

[Kyogre]

I think you could combo Electrode with Firestarter Blaziken. Have two Blaziken and 3 Voltorb/Electrode on the bench, with a 4th Active. The active one is already powered up, and then use both Firestarter to attach 2 :fire: to a benched Voltorb/Electrode, then use a normal energy attach for the third energy. If the active is Voltorb, use Wally, then use Mass Destruction. Send up another one. Lather, rinse, repeat. It'd be toast if Bllaziken EX got going fast, but I suppose it'd make a decent rogue deck (or red face paint, since there'd be plenty of red in it ).

I made that idea into a deck and got replies such as add BEX or Rayquaza EX. ¬.¬;;

Anyway I think you hit on all the main cards in the set. A lot of decks will sprout up but it will take a really well thought out deck to become at least on the same level as BAR.

 

[lookinforwailordex]

wat about that exploud and the rhydon those are the 2 cards that usually people use in the prerealse to win i mean i got a exploud and 2 rhydons at the pre realse and i won so i like those 2 but chimecho is a ok card and the ninetales wow love that card but bait to blaze

 

[Prime]

First off, I think everyone will have a different opinion about stuff, so when I do talk about these cards, please don't reply with stupid stuff like, "You n00b, blah blah is Br0k3n!!!111" Thanks.

Crobat: I think Crobat has some potential. Triple poison, no flip, free retreat. I think the only downsides to Crobat is it's weakness to psychic, which is huge right now, it being a stage 2 so it can't be comboed with other stage 2's aswell, and crobat having low overall damage. Against pokemon that can get out of poison or can't be poisoned, Crobat gets slaughered. ANd with the new gym in HL, water, fighting, and steel pokemon can get out of the poison by just attaching any energy to it. It's like saying, take 30, now hit me for 80, you take 30, I'm KO'ed.

Electrode: I can see electrode being played. But not by alot. Electrode is the type of pokemon that, sure it's splashable, but...you have to play it the right way or it will backfire badly. KO the wrong pokemon and it could mean game. Or KO a pokemon when your opponent has one prize left? Game. You HAVE to play it right, and if someone can, it may be devastating.

Jirachi: First turn evolution on any pokemon....that right there is awesome. It has 70HP, and can have steel attached. It's attack take any energy.....perfect for any deck. Jirachi WILL see play. Alot of it, I guarantee it.

Machamp: With all the EX's in decks now-a-days, Machamp will be able to take advantage. It can do good damage, 70-120 for 2-4 energy. But, because it does have a weakness to psychic and only have 120 HP, I don't know how long it will last. The new gym in the set that cuts weaknesses for non-ex pokemon helps out alot here. It can definitely take out anything that has 70HP or less easily if the opponent has an EX out in play. I am worried that deck, because of cards like this, will play more non-ex good attackers. Meaning that if people see machamp or even machop come out in play, they will rely on their non-ex attacker. But who knows...I do see play for Machamp, but maybe not big amounts of play until the modified changes the boost is taken from GEX.

Metagross: This is my baby. I think it has alot of potential. It and it's EX version. Metagross is psychic and steel, and has resistance to psychic. Thats so weird but so cool. I mean, it can stand up there against those psychic pokemon that could have taken out any other psychic pokemon with a psychic weakness. Also, for 3, it can do 120 damage, which is absurd. Possibly a broken attack IMHO. It's EX version does good damage aswell, and being teamed up with the non-ex metagross, steel can be manipulated all around the board which could help alot in tight places. Attach an rainbow to a benched, so that it gets the one damage counter, then move it up, uhhh etc. MEX/Metagross will see play. I don't need to guarantee it. But it might see it's peak when blastoise EX comes out.

Milotic: A good pokemon. It's power is pretty nice but the one downside is that it heals your opponents. Sure, it doesn't heal your opponent's EXs, but alot of decks are running more non-ex's now, so it helps them out alot aswell. THis is not a early game card, because if you use it early game, and dont have alot of damage on you, it could possibly win your opponent the game. It has potential, and I see it being played with swampert, but until Blastoise EX comes out, it won't see it's prime.

Walrein: Great power. I see this being a great card, both supporter and attacker. I don't want to go out on a limb, but I will. I think this is the blaziken for water pokemon. Heck, I would go out on a limb again, and say that it is better than blaziken for the sole reason that you don't have to discard the energy to attach it, and the energy you do get can be attached to any pokemon. I see this being an archetype someday, especially with Blaziken EX out there.

Chimecho: I don't see much of the hype in this card. You get to use your opponent's supporters after they use them. Uhhhh, by the time this is useful, I see it being OHKO'd for the easy prize. Oh, shuffle your deck and draw 5, I get a prize, lol.

Gorebyss: Alot of potential here. Being able to get powered up by psychic, which is huge right now. And it having the weakness of the big fire pokemon is great. It's a great card and will see some play.

Ninetails: I think each type is getting a card that does especially well against EX's. Grass had shedninja, fighting has machamp, psychic has wobbuffet, etc. It's a great card because of it's body. It will see play because of all the other niniken decks already out there.

Relicanth: I think this is highly overated. Sure, you have to flip 2 heads to get out of it, but there are so many ways to get out of sleep now that it is really stupid. And for the attack to not be instant sleep...eh.

Corsola: Water has had alot of draw in the set and it is great news. Corsola, maybe will see play, but because it is a weak basic that just draws cards, great for the prerelease, I don't see it being played that much in modified.

Igglybuff: Igglybuff is alright. For one of any energy, it allows you to go get any basic pokemon and a basic energy. Good attack, but I think dunsparce is a better choice. Even in a wigglytuff EX deck.

Swalot: Amnesia plus damage is good but I think this card is very overated. Sure, you stop that one attack, but most pokemon have more than one attack. You hit for 10, that's all. It can do 80 damage, but your opponent has to have less HP and with EX's, it's near impossible. Maybe team it up with the anti-EX gym, that would help hit for 30 and also apply amnesia. This might see play, but psychic weakness is aweful.

Tentacruel: Posion for 2? Eh, crobat is much better.

Vulpix: Nice attack, really usefull in niniken decks.

Ancient TM [Rock]: I find this card to be a staple in every deck I make. For the sole reason that it can be comboed with so much and it can catch your opponent off guard. If they know you play it, they use the middle stage, but that slows them down. If they don't, well they RC into their stage 2, and you waste their trainer. Very useful IMO in vileplume EX decks. Waste the RC and they can't play anymore RC the whole game. Try doing 140 damage with a basic lol. Also, it works well with bench attackers like Exploud, Cacturne, and Metagross EX.

Ancient Tomb: If you don't run EX's, even if you do, you should play this. It is a great card, and will help you beat those EX's when they can't beat you. This helps out cards like wobbuffet, shedninja, and ninetails. Could there be a future anti-ex archtype? I think so.

Desert Ruins: Same as with Ancient Tombs, awesome card.

Steven's Advice: I think this is overated because early game, you might be just drawing 3-4, in which a shaman or oak's research would be much better. But it still is a great card. Awesome in late-mid game.

Ninetails ex: Alot of hype, and teamed with blaziken, a very tough foe. HORRIBLE HP, but good card. A water pokemon that can do 50, suicune with no lift, can OHKO the ninetails EX. But 100 for one discard is great.

Wigglytuff ex: This teamed up with cards like dunsparce and more importantly DR wurmple, can be devastating. 2-3 turn 80 damage constantly is amazing, but I don't know if it will become an archetype.

 

[Cyrus]

I think that Hidden legends is full of false hopes and mirror images; when it boils right down to it, a lot of this is just overhyped and will not be worth playing.

However, things that stand out to me are these cards; cards that aren't just very deceptive eye candy:

Stephen's Advice: if anything in this set could be called a staple, it's this guy.
Milotic: Nice combinations now, and sick, broken ones come the next set or two.
Igglybuff: Not bad! One basic...one energy. Not too shabby!
Corsola: This isn't too amazing ATM, but come EX-on, the format will want this guy as a drawer/backup attacker in water.
Machamp: one of, if not the best fighting decks of the future. Since so many guys are weak to fighting, and people play fighting-weak cards with little-no fear, Machamp will put a dent in anyone's strategy. This guy's mean!
Ancient Technical Machine Rock: When a card forces drastic change on the metagame, then you know it's good. ATMR is that card.
All gyms in general: Gyms are back! About the only other gyms before this time seeing ANY play were Mirage and HPS. Now, we have a pleothera of good stuff.

I may've forgot something, and if I did, cut me some slack. I stay up abnormally late ^^""

 

[Kyogre]

I think that Hidden legends is full of false hopes and mirror images; when it boils right down to it, a lot of this is just overhyped and will not be worth playing.

I'll admit this set doesn't shine in the way of strait forward attackers but it does provide great support cards for those already released.

Jirachi: Dunsparce to get Jirachi then start evolving. Simple and effective beginning Pokemon engine.

Milotic: Either as an attacker or healer, it just works. Maybe not now but it will see serious play.

Walrien: I swear there is a hidden combo with it for EX-On. Besides Navs and what not.

Kyogre EX: There are a couple of decks focused on this guy. I am sure with proper play test it may work out well.

Stadium: Yay, a new play factor to watch out for.

Steven's Advice: Say EX-On Staple?

TM Rock: Forces players to slow down thus balancing out the game.

Gorebyss: Play test this guy ppl, it is good.

Overhyped cards:

Exploud: Max it can do is 60, nuff said

Electrode: Too hard to "Surprise" your opponent.

Crobat: It does 30 and then they will most likely do something. I mean wether it be Island Cave, Switch, or just plain retreat it won't stay long.

Undecided:
Metagross/MEX: Its decent, but doesn't set up on turn 2 as much as everyone would it like to. Plus it lacks late game power/draw.

 

[Nick15]

Electrode + Fossils = Opponent doesn'tr draw a prize from the vaccum left by Electrode.

But how to make the deck WORK is the big question. I am to answer that question by the West Coast Stadium Challenge! (^_^)

 

[Pablo]

This teamed up with cards like dunsparce and more importantly DR wurmple

how does DR Wurmple help? to get your fake grass jigglypuffs?

This set is too overrated, yes there are anti-ex things that help out decks to be more competitive, but Bex is STILL the king, only thing that affected it is the Rock TM, slowing it down 1 turn cause of evolving into Combuskens, but that turn will be made up because on the next turn the slaughter will start, it just delays Bex a single turn, but since Bex also plays it, the opponents are ALSO delayed so no big deal, other than that it was just given EXTRA draw with Steven's. Anything else in the set is decent on paper, but doesn't really work.

 

[nikePK]

bex is still king, pablo? My butt it is, you need to play me sometime dude. Ask Jermy how his bex is doing =P

This set is hyped for a reason, its really good. Steven's Advice is broken, as now if you're opponent starts with sparce, and you don't, you still have a way to get a lot of cards and get setup. Also, Delcatty is slightly weaker, because decks that aren't running it, but are running Steven's can still run through the deck quite quickly.

Desert Ruins is awesome.

Apparently someone's never played against or with Exploud. Max of 60? Oh waaah, doing 10 to everything is GOD with Rock TM, the only thing this deck won't have a good chance to beat is Metagross right now.

Crobat's nice. Machamp is nice. I think we'll be seeing plenty of those at Nationals. There are some overrated cards, like Milotic imo, but there are also some underrated cards as well... one that i've been playing in particular has been doing good.

There's so many cards in this set that can be combined with other stuff, plus as someone said earlier, the gym wars are back! This is soooo cool, I can't even begin to explain it.

Anywho, gotta run. This set is awesome, and to answer the question... YES, HL is the answer to a balanced modified.

 

[Scyther_trainer]

About Crobat...

I see Crobat like this:

1st turn, zubat, Grass energy, Surprise (they shuffle a random card into their deck.
2nd turn RC --> Crobat, energy, Triple poison.

Now it's true that it's easy to get rid of poison (poison has ALWAYS been that way), But now you must either retreat your active (using your 1 retreat per turn), or risk have 70 damage on it by the end of the turn.

I'm not saying it's game-breaking, just something I think people will try.

Crobat will be all about the speed. Trying to disrupt setups before they start rather than BEX, which disrupts setups after they're in place.


P.S. Interesting ideas for Electrode.

 

[nikePK]

I'm going to say this now.

Electrode Sucks.

There, I said it. I'm sticking with that until I see something that can truly take advantage of it.

 

[Dek]

Electrode Sucks.

...if you dont know how to use it. A great way to use this card is this...

1st turn- Voltorb and Treecko -> NRG to Voltorb, end/attack
2nd turn- RC Treecko to Sceptile -> Energy Trans to Voltorb -> Evolve to Electrode -> BOOM!!!
3rd turn- Town Volunteers Electrode, voltorb, and the three energy discarded, bring them back into deck

may seem slow, but if you can find a way to bring it back to the field, thats fine by me.

 

[Dro~]

How come no one mentioned rain castform? It's a weaker version of cleffa but I think it's pretty good. It prevents decking because the card lets you draw UP to 5 cards, that means you don't have to draw at all after you've shuffled your hand into your deck.

Metagross is overrated. Its power is good but its attack is flippy and requires a special energy. 100 hp is not too hot either. Its ex form is also overrated. A retreat cost of 4 is bad, so are its 2 weaknesses, fire and fighting (HL machamp). Its second attack is quite situational and requires 2 special energy.

To Prime: What do you mean by machamp having only 120HP? That's the highest hp a non-ex can get.


Ninetales /ex are great, with HPS their retreat cost will be 0.

Castform forecast attack is not bad. It lets you search for a stadium card and play it right away

 

[JasonthePwnda]

Two things to disagree about with Dro:
Metagross is the awesome. He just crushes. T2 50, with an ability to pull out who to kill? If you go first, after they SARS, you can pull out one of their torchic s or something and immediately kill it. It would take them many turns to recover. Ninetales/ex aren't that great, especially ninetales ex. A water pokemon that does 50 for 3 using a DRE can ohko it. Gorebyss w/ DRE and a 2 psychics/1DRE on ANYTHING can OHKO it, thats not too good.

 

[Prime]

Like I said, people will have different opinions. I do think that BEX is still the king, as Mudkip said, but, with the next set coming out, I see BEX finding major competition and maybe even being washed out of the top decks catagory. I mean you have already wobbuffet, which can hit BEX for 100, in which BEX then only gets like one good shot before he's KO'd, now you have Dewgong which for a simple CCC, it can do 80 a whack to BEX, or put him asleep and do 20. Sure, BEX might OHKO a milotic on the bench, but when you KO the BEX, you get more prizes. I feel with the additions of the castforms, corsola, milotic, gorebyss, and regice EX, BEX is losing it's grip on the metagame. But heck, it's my opinion.

 

[bullados]

No matter what, I still think that Milotic is the best draft card in this set, mostly b/c of Ascension on Feebas.

 

[Prof Clay]

Any set which gives us a variety of options to try adds flavor to a relatively stale environment. Some may be gems some may be garbage, but its good to have something new to figure out isn't it.

 

[davechri]

I think this set is pretty worthwhile. While I believe that Machamp has real possibilities, there are other cards in there that are playtesting pretty well against the likes of Blaze/Blaze EX. I had intended to go to Nationals with my BEX deck, but now I'm not so sure...