LostGar Hype Discussion - IN HERE ONLY
- Thread starter Rogue Archetype
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Box of Fail
New Member
Well, you can't expect everyone to only argue in favor of the deck they plan on playing. The point of threads like these is to raise awareness about the pros and cons of each deck, and grow understanding of each deck's pros and cons. Just because Tyranitar is not the BDIF doesn't mean it isn't worth pointing out its positive Lostgar matchup. Of course, Lostgar is so horrible that I don't think a good Lostgar matchup is the most important concern for a deckbuilder, but it's still important to note how each deck fares against other decks.
Mewperrior hits too fast for Lostgar so its an easy matchup.
i thought so. Plus, how can they lost zone 6 when the deck runs less than 10? lol
Porii Sames
Active Member
You're playing bad Mewperiors. Most run 15+.
Well if u keep a strong Psychic bind and play smart its an easy matchup.
Porii Sames
Active Member
No, it is an easy matchup for Mew. Just most ones run 15+ pokes, not 10- like Storm said.
oops. my bad guys
Clearly you are missing the argument for croak. ttar is probably the worst matchup for lostgar, hands down and I admit that. However, running a few copies of promocroak isn't straying from the original purpose of the lostgar deck and helps the matchup no matter what you say. Promocroak helps in many aspects of the lostgar strategy. Getting a monster ttar low on hp for instance. Many swear by the warp+seeker but if you play the warp energy then there goes your energy drop and you have to have another ttar on the bench powered up before warp+seeker works. (yes I know ttar only needs 1 energy to spread but non the less it has to be done)
On a side note I read that starters are typically used for ttar and sableye is a great one for the first turn supporter and donkability. However, sableye does give gengar an extra turn or two to lost zone pokemon before you even start attacking. Just a thought.
Anyways, back to promocroak. Croak also gives the ability to fetch something from your prizes i.e. lost world for those that run 2 copies and have the unfortunate luck of prizing both, or to grab a supporter to get things rolling again. (assuming you time walked with azelf first) Not only does this help in the ttar matchup but in others as well i.e. teched luxchomps. Anything that techs a 1-1 or 1 dark poke just to beat gengar has any plans of that ruined when croak hits the board,
Distractions, distractions, distractions. Please don't miss this point of my argument. I have pointed this out before and hands down this is the most important point. Many games are won on distraction and felxibility. Luxchomp thrives on this. having benched garchomps with energy and that darn luxray gl causes opponents to plan for multiple strategies and typically this is when mistakes are made even by the most seasoned and best players, When your opponent can seeker+psychic bind/ setup/ pickup damage and next turn reuse it with vs seeker/seeker/junk arm plus can put heavy damage/knock out your active attacker with a croak on the bench, that is a distraction and is a useful tool.
Box of Fail
New Member
Well, first I played 2 Garchomp C.
Then I prized them. So I put in Azelf.
But then I prized all 3. So I put in another Azelf.
Then I thought, 'you know it isn't likely but I might prize all 4'. Making sure to be prepared for this, I added another. This helps in many aspects of the Luxchomp strategy.
Now I start with Azelf a lot.
Wow whole bunch of garbage here! Haven't the slightest clue as to what your point is.
@ mario1: Ok well keep in mind that t tar still won't be popular. Even in the new metagame, I doubt that more than 5-7 players use t tar in any one tournament. Teching promocroak would "help" that matchup, but is it worth it? Luxchomp can get away with tons of techs and "distraction" strategies because none of these distract yourself from what your deck is supposed to do.
Plus, some of your points are operating under the false assumption that all dark techs are weak to fighting. BDK and honchkrow g, some of the most prevalent dark attackers, I suspect, are weak to electric and resistant to fighting.
Just because you feel t tar may be your worst matchup, that doesn't mean you need to tech against it if it is going to hurt you in your other matchups. Let's look back at luxchomp. You don't see a lot of luxchomps playing any mewtwo counters. Why not? It's only a basic lv x, and once it hits the field it means an almost certain loss. What about machamp? Machamp will be far more prevalent than ttar, but you don't see LC's or sablelocks teching toxitanks. How would straight donphan tech against gdos without taking away from the other, winnable matchups? What about gigas against donphan? What about vilegar against sablelock? What about gdos against magnezone? What about dialgachomp or healix against HoPe? Or uxie donk against vilegar?
Oftentimes we don't like to admit it, but whichever deck we choose to play, there will be something out there that is just too hard to beat (or at least the matchup is just so unfavorable that taking away quality for even a few tech cards isn't warranted). I think it would be better to just take the 20-80 matchup against an all-dark deck.
Plus, some of your points are operating under the false assumption that all dark techs are weak to fighting. BDK and honchkrow g, some of the most prevalent dark attackers, I suspect, are weak to electric and resistant to fighting.
Just because you feel t tar may be your worst matchup, that doesn't mean you need to tech against it if it is going to hurt you in your other matchups. Let's look back at luxchomp. You don't see a lot of luxchomps playing any mewtwo counters. Why not? It's only a basic lv x, and once it hits the field it means an almost certain loss. What about machamp? Machamp will be far more prevalent than ttar, but you don't see LC's or sablelocks teching toxitanks. How would straight donphan tech against gdos without taking away from the other, winnable matchups? What about gigas against donphan? What about vilegar against sablelock? What about gdos against magnezone? What about dialgachomp or healix against HoPe? Or uxie donk against vilegar?
Oftentimes we don't like to admit it, but whichever deck we choose to play, there will be something out there that is just too hard to beat (or at least the matchup is just so unfavorable that taking away quality for even a few tech cards isn't warranted). I think it would be better to just take the 20-80 matchup against an all-dark deck.
In all honesty I probably wont even play lostgar. So I'm not on here actually trying to hype it. You're right about ttar and I think that regardless of the non-fightning weakness BDk has it will still get damage on it and poisoned. something gengar can't do. And once BDK is gone no more dark tech. I feel like croak is THE tech for this deck because of so many situations it can help. I'm not aiming at weakness only.
The reason why I have posted so much about promocroak is because of the faith (and tested results) I have about it helping gengar. In all actuality it should be an intricate part to lostgar and I think is a better attacker than shadow skip gengar. Just throwing out my two cents.
As far as your statement about luxchomp and sablock not teching toxitank for machamp and whatnot. I feel that croak has more potential than just one matchup and I have stated these in my earlier post. It helps against many decks and is an efficient revenge killer (always in gengar) strategy for those deck that throw one poke at you and no bench, it's "almost" endless the situations that promocroak can help, I just wanted to point these out to the community that was failing to realize it.
Kayle
Active Member
His point is that trying too hard to help your "bad matchups" will hurt your deck overall. And it's a very, very important point.
Amakake Ryu No Hirameki
New Member
Hi guys, thought I'd pop in and give some feedback.
My friend and I have been developing a LostGar list in our spare time, and have playtested and refined it to the best of our ability. We have playtested against various metagame decks during two league sessions and skype and here are our findings.
The decklist:
1 Azelf LA
4 Gastly SF
3 Gengar Prime
1 Gengar Lv. X
2 Haunter TM
1 Machamp SF
3 Mew Prime
1 Mr. Mime CL
2 Spiritomb TM
1 Unown Q MD
2 Uxie LA
3 Bebe's Search
2 Broken-Time Space
1 Luxury Ball
3 Lost World
4 Pokemon Collector
3 Pokemon Communication
4 Rare Candy
4 Seeker
3 Twins
3 VS Seeker
6 Psychic Energy
3 Rainbow Energy
So basically we ran it past a few meta decks.
Gyarados was easy enough, with Gengar Prime taking the mantle of a main striker as opposed to Mew Prime to deny prizes with zoned karps, seekers and free-of-charge Broken Time-Space that less experienced Gyarados players kindly put down for us. T1 Gengar ASAP is important to put pressure on Sableyes who use Pokemon Collector from the get go to fish out karps. So rare candy and pokemon communication comes in handy here.
VileGar was good too. Spiritomb TM spam played a huge part in rolling and hitting various stages of the Vileplume and Gengar lines. Mew was an early game killer, paired with Spiritomb TM and Mime, searched out with a maxed Pokemon Collector count of 4 to facilitate all this. Invariable darkness grace early on for them bought time for see off and a 2 energy hurl to get the ball rolling, and 2 will be hurled on average on T2, thanks to Spiritomb TM and the fact a six card hand drawn at random nails 2 Pokemon on average upon the second turn, as VileGar runs 20+ Pokemon in their deck typically. Sudden cursed droplets on damaged tombs for the lulz is a legit strategy as well down the line as well, done by Gengar Prime to nail Catastrophe and steal a so-called "prize". In all, the hurling of evolution lines served as good disruption to buy time while Gengar Prime wades through a slow-ed down set up due to lack of trainer usage. Late game its prize denial with Seekers and hurling the last 2 - 3 pokemon in 1 - 2 turns through tomb and Mews, or Gengar Prime/seeker if you get him up.
Machamp/Donphan was accounted for as well. I couldn't find a proper straight Champ player to test with, so this will have to do. LostGar players, don't make the fatal mistake of a T1 see-off. Early on, I tried to do my usual T1 See Off thing and abuse T2 double hurl, taking advantage of the deck's clunky evolution lines to net 2 Pokemon down by T2. T1 Donphan happens so often, it's not even funny, and I wasted a Mew and an Energy. What I did try to do afterwards was to do T1 pitch dark instead, forcing them to lay down BTS to earn the kill, much to my benefit, for now Seekers is simulataneously a prize-denial and "prize" snatching tool. Keeping a spare Gastly AS A MINIMUM to Seeker into, with maintaining a full line of Gengar to wall and then rinse lather and repeat with Seeker heal is essential to make sure they don't net all six prizes while you keep hurling. An easy draw for 4 Seekers and 3 VS Seekers, with a supplied BTS works beautifully. Getting a Stage 2 out with a basic, and a supporter you have an equivalent of 7 of, isn't too hard against a deck that isn't disruption-centric, and yet this gives a huge lead for you. Beware of Champ Buster later on, for this is where your Gengar Primes are ready to face death, so its time to hit hard with Spiritombs, or Seekering them up if one-off Pokemon like Uxie and Azelf were all zoned and you pull evolution lines back to their hand because they have no alternative, increasing your profits while you hand them a prize in return, but gladly so. Early game prize denial takes the cake, and sees you through comfortably for the late game. I averaged a lead of 3 or 2 prizes remaining for my opponent before I win.
SP was quite fun. I'm not a very good SP player, but I never fail to be amazed by the amount of versatility an SP deck has to deal with the opponent. Against LostGar, the 3 decks, LuxChomp, DialgaChomp and Sablelock have their own answers.
LuxChomp's answer was that of cheap prizes to fight against my hurling speed. Not keen on sacrificing my Mew Prime, I tend to go with T1 Pitch Dark, and I will keep the trainer lock up before advancing to Gengar Prime. No intermediates. Its either Pitch Dark, or Hurl. No Sneaky Placement nonsense. My trainers get me there. Spiritomb is so very good. They will use SP Radar to hide their unnecessary Pokemon and bring out relevant ones, Poke Turn to reuse their Bright Looks and eat my benchers alive. However, Spiritomb breaks their Cyrus Chain and stutters their set up. A whiff on their part is losing a turn of prizes, and a successful Spiritomb drop means 2 Pokemon on average. They whiff on a prize and I take an equivalent of 2. Unlike evolution decks, which can tuck their Pokemon away safely onto the field via evolving, the most SP can churn out is Lv. X lines, so a filled bench means unplaceable Pokemon. Spiritomb then takes advantage of this and I find the average throughout the game is 2 per Spooky Whirlpool. Power Spray is essentially for them, but it means less SP tools available for them to their hide their Pokemon or use Poke Turns to keep bright looking cheap prizes off me, especially those tasty Spiritombs. Spiritomb deaths and Power Sprays are the reason why I run 2 in my deck. You break their chain, give yourself two prizes on average, what's not to like. Spray? Sure, have another tomb. Gengar Lv. X is a hero against Level X, and since they focus on bench smashing, this guy is often untouched. If Mr. Mime ever finds the opponent lacking the resources to get back their beloved Lv. X-es, their prize taking ability will start to fall upon a vital Level-Down. Despite Spiritomb's double advantage over this deck, Gengar being mostly untouched due to a good resistance and a fine tank, and LuxChomp having to balance between its ability to nail cheap prizes and to spray my advances to disrupt it and start hurling, LuxChomp is still BDIF, and fights with it are still frantic races, with most matches being rather close ones.
DialgaChomp's answer was to lock me out of my set up, then lock me out of lost world. DialgaChomp is less able to take cheap prizes off me because only Garchomp C Lv. X is able to snipe. However, it can put a dampener on my set up. Early game will then be important. If I am met with the ideal T1 deafen, I will employ some strategy here. I recognize that getting Gengar out with be tough at this point, so Mew comes in. Mr. Mime will scout to see if the opponent has any means to get off a DGX in a hurry. If so, I would rush Spiritombs. Its rare to see Dialga netting sufficient cards to do a T1 deafen, have enough SP on the field, and then having Power Spray all on T1, so something has to give. A collector, Mime, Mew and Tomb settles this quickly. Mew to see off, Mr. Mime to scout for a possibility of a DGX and tomb to disrupt. Chances are, if Dialga can pull off a T1 deafen, his hand will not be ideal enough to accomodate proper spraying. If he is that lucky, well its a tough game, but T1 deafen is ideal enough, so something has to give. With tomb, you jeopardise his chances of nailing the coveted DGX. Proceed to Seeker/2nd tomb and hurl 2 Pokemon (on average) against dialga by T2, and you're in the clear. With their lesser ability to gain cheap prizes, your "prize" lead will be a tremendous blow to them. Take it easier and try to nail Gengar, being wary of sudden Garchomp kills on Haunters and Gastlys. Once your opponent nails a prize, explode with Twins and start denying them prizes by hitting it off with Seekers and etc. Use VS Seeker whenever you are allowed to, for you never know when deafen comes in as a filler. You should be alright since you can outspeed them with your good resistance, seeker heals, and Spiritomb disruption. A hurl per turn means a "prize" for you, something they would have to keep rushing to keep up with. The true trouble starts when you need to lay down Lost World. In anticipation of this, please ready a Gengar Lv. X and keep it safe. It's not hard with your resistance and multiple seeker count, but be careful. Keep levelling down Dialga G Lv. X when given the chance, expending their sprays. In times of perma-deafen, use Mew Prime to zone that tech Machamp in my list. If his Dialga G Lv. X is still around, start levelling down, as he shouldn't have sprays left, after fighting your repeated leveling, and your Spiritomb disruption. To be sure, scout with Mr. Mime and lure sprays with Spiritomb. After a successful level down, either Twins or Rainbow to Mew for take out. He should be able to sustain more than 3 deafens at most, and it possibility nets you the prize lead as well. Wrap up with Lost World once you KO-ed enough Dialgas. In all, early game, explode with trainers if he fails T1 deafen, or use Mew and lure sprays and disrupt Dialga G Lv. X while seeing off to get yourself set up. Middle game roll by hurling faster than he can chain dragon rushes, healing and preparing a Gengar Lv. X. Late game, lure sprays until you're clear to level down a Dialga G Lv. X, while you see off Machamp and repeat take out with rainbow energy till your opponent gives.
Phew, I wrote more than I would have thought I did. I guess I like sharing my experiences a little too much.
I will test Sablelock soon enough. I anticipate that disruption and honchkrow sv will be pitfalls to look out for then. I look forward to more sharing, and I appreciate whoever will take the trouble to help me test my list. Let's work together and fix the kooks in a LostGar deck, so as to make it viable perhaps? Until then, have fun!
My friend and I have been developing a LostGar list in our spare time, and have playtested and refined it to the best of our ability. We have playtested against various metagame decks during two league sessions and skype and here are our findings.
The decklist:
1 Azelf LA
4 Gastly SF
3 Gengar Prime
1 Gengar Lv. X
2 Haunter TM
1 Machamp SF
3 Mew Prime
1 Mr. Mime CL
2 Spiritomb TM
1 Unown Q MD
2 Uxie LA
3 Bebe's Search
2 Broken-Time Space
1 Luxury Ball
3 Lost World
4 Pokemon Collector
3 Pokemon Communication
4 Rare Candy
4 Seeker
3 Twins
3 VS Seeker
6 Psychic Energy
3 Rainbow Energy
So basically we ran it past a few meta decks.
Gyarados was easy enough, with Gengar Prime taking the mantle of a main striker as opposed to Mew Prime to deny prizes with zoned karps, seekers and free-of-charge Broken Time-Space that less experienced Gyarados players kindly put down for us. T1 Gengar ASAP is important to put pressure on Sableyes who use Pokemon Collector from the get go to fish out karps. So rare candy and pokemon communication comes in handy here.
VileGar was good too. Spiritomb TM spam played a huge part in rolling and hitting various stages of the Vileplume and Gengar lines. Mew was an early game killer, paired with Spiritomb TM and Mime, searched out with a maxed Pokemon Collector count of 4 to facilitate all this. Invariable darkness grace early on for them bought time for see off and a 2 energy hurl to get the ball rolling, and 2 will be hurled on average on T2, thanks to Spiritomb TM and the fact a six card hand drawn at random nails 2 Pokemon on average upon the second turn, as VileGar runs 20+ Pokemon in their deck typically. Sudden cursed droplets on damaged tombs for the lulz is a legit strategy as well down the line as well, done by Gengar Prime to nail Catastrophe and steal a so-called "prize". In all, the hurling of evolution lines served as good disruption to buy time while Gengar Prime wades through a slow-ed down set up due to lack of trainer usage. Late game its prize denial with Seekers and hurling the last 2 - 3 pokemon in 1 - 2 turns through tomb and Mews, or Gengar Prime/seeker if you get him up.
Machamp/Donphan was accounted for as well. I couldn't find a proper straight Champ player to test with, so this will have to do. LostGar players, don't make the fatal mistake of a T1 see-off. Early on, I tried to do my usual T1 See Off thing and abuse T2 double hurl, taking advantage of the deck's clunky evolution lines to net 2 Pokemon down by T2. T1 Donphan happens so often, it's not even funny, and I wasted a Mew and an Energy. What I did try to do afterwards was to do T1 pitch dark instead, forcing them to lay down BTS to earn the kill, much to my benefit, for now Seekers is simulataneously a prize-denial and "prize" snatching tool. Keeping a spare Gastly AS A MINIMUM to Seeker into, with maintaining a full line of Gengar to wall and then rinse lather and repeat with Seeker heal is essential to make sure they don't net all six prizes while you keep hurling. An easy draw for 4 Seekers and 3 VS Seekers, with a supplied BTS works beautifully. Getting a Stage 2 out with a basic, and a supporter you have an equivalent of 7 of, isn't too hard against a deck that isn't disruption-centric, and yet this gives a huge lead for you. Beware of Champ Buster later on, for this is where your Gengar Primes are ready to face death, so its time to hit hard with Spiritombs, or Seekering them up if one-off Pokemon like Uxie and Azelf were all zoned and you pull evolution lines back to their hand because they have no alternative, increasing your profits while you hand them a prize in return, but gladly so. Early game prize denial takes the cake, and sees you through comfortably for the late game. I averaged a lead of 3 or 2 prizes remaining for my opponent before I win.
SP was quite fun. I'm not a very good SP player, but I never fail to be amazed by the amount of versatility an SP deck has to deal with the opponent. Against LostGar, the 3 decks, LuxChomp, DialgaChomp and Sablelock have their own answers.
LuxChomp's answer was that of cheap prizes to fight against my hurling speed. Not keen on sacrificing my Mew Prime, I tend to go with T1 Pitch Dark, and I will keep the trainer lock up before advancing to Gengar Prime. No intermediates. Its either Pitch Dark, or Hurl. No Sneaky Placement nonsense. My trainers get me there. Spiritomb is so very good. They will use SP Radar to hide their unnecessary Pokemon and bring out relevant ones, Poke Turn to reuse their Bright Looks and eat my benchers alive. However, Spiritomb breaks their Cyrus Chain and stutters their set up. A whiff on their part is losing a turn of prizes, and a successful Spiritomb drop means 2 Pokemon on average. They whiff on a prize and I take an equivalent of 2. Unlike evolution decks, which can tuck their Pokemon away safely onto the field via evolving, the most SP can churn out is Lv. X lines, so a filled bench means unplaceable Pokemon. Spiritomb then takes advantage of this and I find the average throughout the game is 2 per Spooky Whirlpool. Power Spray is essentially for them, but it means less SP tools available for them to their hide their Pokemon or use Poke Turns to keep bright looking cheap prizes off me, especially those tasty Spiritombs. Spiritomb deaths and Power Sprays are the reason why I run 2 in my deck. You break their chain, give yourself two prizes on average, what's not to like. Spray? Sure, have another tomb. Gengar Lv. X is a hero against Level X, and since they focus on bench smashing, this guy is often untouched. If Mr. Mime ever finds the opponent lacking the resources to get back their beloved Lv. X-es, their prize taking ability will start to fall upon a vital Level-Down. Despite Spiritomb's double advantage over this deck, Gengar being mostly untouched due to a good resistance and a fine tank, and LuxChomp having to balance between its ability to nail cheap prizes and to spray my advances to disrupt it and start hurling, LuxChomp is still BDIF, and fights with it are still frantic races, with most matches being rather close ones.
DialgaChomp's answer was to lock me out of my set up, then lock me out of lost world. DialgaChomp is less able to take cheap prizes off me because only Garchomp C Lv. X is able to snipe. However, it can put a dampener on my set up. Early game will then be important. If I am met with the ideal T1 deafen, I will employ some strategy here. I recognize that getting Gengar out with be tough at this point, so Mew comes in. Mr. Mime will scout to see if the opponent has any means to get off a DGX in a hurry. If so, I would rush Spiritombs. Its rare to see Dialga netting sufficient cards to do a T1 deafen, have enough SP on the field, and then having Power Spray all on T1, so something has to give. A collector, Mime, Mew and Tomb settles this quickly. Mew to see off, Mr. Mime to scout for a possibility of a DGX and tomb to disrupt. Chances are, if Dialga can pull off a T1 deafen, his hand will not be ideal enough to accomodate proper spraying. If he is that lucky, well its a tough game, but T1 deafen is ideal enough, so something has to give. With tomb, you jeopardise his chances of nailing the coveted DGX. Proceed to Seeker/2nd tomb and hurl 2 Pokemon (on average) against dialga by T2, and you're in the clear. With their lesser ability to gain cheap prizes, your "prize" lead will be a tremendous blow to them. Take it easier and try to nail Gengar, being wary of sudden Garchomp kills on Haunters and Gastlys. Once your opponent nails a prize, explode with Twins and start denying them prizes by hitting it off with Seekers and etc. Use VS Seeker whenever you are allowed to, for you never know when deafen comes in as a filler. You should be alright since you can outspeed them with your good resistance, seeker heals, and Spiritomb disruption. A hurl per turn means a "prize" for you, something they would have to keep rushing to keep up with. The true trouble starts when you need to lay down Lost World. In anticipation of this, please ready a Gengar Lv. X and keep it safe. It's not hard with your resistance and multiple seeker count, but be careful. Keep levelling down Dialga G Lv. X when given the chance, expending their sprays. In times of perma-deafen, use Mew Prime to zone that tech Machamp in my list. If his Dialga G Lv. X is still around, start levelling down, as he shouldn't have sprays left, after fighting your repeated leveling, and your Spiritomb disruption. To be sure, scout with Mr. Mime and lure sprays with Spiritomb. After a successful level down, either Twins or Rainbow to Mew for take out. He should be able to sustain more than 3 deafens at most, and it possibility nets you the prize lead as well. Wrap up with Lost World once you KO-ed enough Dialgas. In all, early game, explode with trainers if he fails T1 deafen, or use Mew and lure sprays and disrupt Dialga G Lv. X while seeing off to get yourself set up. Middle game roll by hurling faster than he can chain dragon rushes, healing and preparing a Gengar Lv. X. Late game, lure sprays until you're clear to level down a Dialga G Lv. X, while you see off Machamp and repeat take out with rainbow energy till your opponent gives.
Phew, I wrote more than I would have thought I did. I guess I like sharing my experiences a little too much.
I will test Sablelock soon enough. I anticipate that disruption and honchkrow sv will be pitfalls to look out for then. I look forward to more sharing, and I appreciate whoever will take the trouble to help me test my list. Let's work together and fix the kooks in a LostGar deck, so as to make it viable perhaps? Until then, have fun!
Last edited:
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
I dunno about the format, but Lostgar has definitely ruined the Deck Help and Strategy forum . . .
Click for proof
Click for proof
Amakake Ryu No Hirameki
New Member
how is 1-2 promocroak trying too hard? Still think it's meaningless banter. I have yet to read anyone actually giving facts and specifics about how croak will deviate from lostgars overall goal. If not for croak than gengar would not be able to sit active and lost zone pokemon turn after turn. Therefore, croak actually helps lostgars cause.
Kayle
Active Member
Firstly, no one runs 2 Promocroak that I know if, and there's a reason for that: one is enough.
Secondly, don't exclude what's important. If you aren't running Energy Gain, Promocroak takes two turns to charge unless you do something silly like Lucian's.
Thirdly, Promocroak's primary purpose is dealing with Luxray, not Tyranitar. It's a free prize to T-Tar, and a successful swarm will generally sacrifice the energy to retreat in a situation anything like that one. After all, even if they can't immediately KO it, it's only threatening for one turn, and if you fail the Leap Away (...or if they Mesprit or something similarly [del]weird[/del] awesome), you have to do something stupid like Warp Point or Poke-Turn, which is MORE cards spent on a tech that you don't need. And at the end of the day, if your opponent is intelligent and retreats, you've done 130 damage to a Pokemon with 180 HP. Even if they don't have Nidoqueen, which imo they should, you can't KO it with Gengar without spending two turns, losing two prizes, and throwing away 4 energy.
Good try bro, but not going to work.
I actually don't understand your logic...
Promocroak deviates from Lostgar's overall goal because it doesn't Lost Zone Pokemon. At all. You would have to use it to damage an opponent, then use Gengar to knock it out; a two-turn affair that can be accomplished much more easily by focusing on Hurl into Darkness instead, particularly given that stage 2s are not terribly common. Playing a tech that can OHKO opposing Gengars in mirror and then switch back to Gengar (for Catastrophe) sounds like a MUCH better idea.
But I use the word "tech" for a reason: because it is a tech. And techs don't cooperate with your strategy. That's their nature, it's almost their whole point: they're a card that makes your deck more versatile by distracting from its main goal. They are good in moderation, but only when considered and tested carefully. Even having just one or two too many can screw with your consistency too much (and using it when it doesn't need to be used and/or doesn't help you can lose you game after game after game).
I can see how you think it helps Lostgar by removing threats that prevent it from sitting active and doing whatever it wants - it does KO opposing Absols, Weaviles, etc - but on the other hand, it doesn't actually get you anything into the Lost Zone, and against any competent opponent playing Luxchomp or other SP variants, you're 90% likely to have just lost ANOTHER prize because Promocroak kills are very well-practiced. You can't follow up with the KO on Uxie X, either, so you give them a turn or two to find their Aaron's, all casual-like, so they can grab their Weavile back or whatever.
---------- Post added 02/07/2011 at 11:36 AM ----------
To add in more constructive criticism for the deck, and to follow suit with the AWESOME poster above who has been testing...
I haven't had a whole lot of time to just sit down and play games with this, but I have been trying. So far I'm about 2-5 against Luxchomp, but there's two or three things that I want to lay down as important before you take too much out of that. Firstly, I end the games prematurely because I don't have much time. I will study the field position and decide if either deck has hit a standstill - and the deck that has, loses.
I say that's important because so far my biggest problem with Lostgar is consistently hitting the Pokemon in-hand to Lost Zone. In fact, I have yet to get more then three consecutive successful Hurls. It just doesn't happen. Spiritomb doesn't help you much. The best you can do is Seeker Bronzong or something valuable early on, and then manage to get a Lv. X or two Zoned; it seems to hit a wall once it's got about 3 Pokemon zoned and then it's game.
Lostgar just doesn't have the resources to compete with Luxchomp so far. Even without a Weavile addition (which helped a LOT) Luxchomp outruns and outcircles the deck, especially if it can land an early spray.
I would, so far, strongly advise any SP player going into high tournaments to play at least one Weavile G and make sure they can grab it quickly. If you do and your deck is consistent, you will probably beat Lostgar with the same frequency you would beat most other easy matchups. Your worst enemy is Mesprit/Seeker chains in the first few turns, forcing you to sit there and wait for the powerlock to go away so that you can Set Up and get your Cyrus chain and other resources going. While you're Powerlocked and Seekering, they can just sit back and set up (which so far has proven to be quite difficult, by the way), then Hurl whatever they Seekered and get a couple of easy Zones that way.
Meanwhile, Lostgar players, you NEED Azelf X. Sorry, sucks to have a deck that needs a "tech" like that, but Weaviles just mow through you and unless you can smoothly, carefully set up your Azelf X on the Bench in stride, you're not going to have a chance. Personally I don't think the deck is viable even with Azelf - the game I just played was spectacular up until the point at which I ran out of Seekers (with 5 Pokemon zoned and a Lost World in hand). It has consistency problems, and being unable to use a Supporter for draw every turn hurts. Yeah, you can Seeker up your Uxie and use another Set Up, but that can be sprayed, and it also doesn't help when you draw a hand full of Palmer's, Bebe's and Energy. You're just screwed when that happens, and it's gonna happen.
Edit: Oops, forgot this important little detail...
Code:
Redshark 3.80 Deck List
Date: Mon Feb 7 11:36:42 2011
Name: Lostgar
Comments: Prox
TOTAL CARDS: 60
POKEMON: 20
Level-Up: 2
1 : Azelf LV.X, LA-140
1 : Gengar Lv.X, AR-97
Stage 2: 3
3 : Gengar (Prime), TM-94
Stage 1: 3
3 : Haunter, TM-35
Basic: 12
1 : Mr. Mime, SV-37
1 : Azelf, LA-19
2 : Mesprit, LA-34
4 : Gastly, SF-62
2 : Uxie, LA-43
1 : Unown Q, MD-49
1 : Spiritomb, TM-10
TRAINERS: 32
Trainers: 12
3 : Pokemon Communication, GS-98
2 : VS Seeker, SV-140
4 : Rare Candy, UL-82
2 : Junk Arm, TM-87
1 : Luxury Ball, SF-86
Supporters: 15
2 : Bebe's Search, RR-89
4 : Seeker, TM-88
4 : Twins, TM-89
4 : Pokemon Collector, GS-97
1 : Palmer's Contribution, SV-139
Stadiums: 5
2 : Broken Ground Gym, NDes-92
3 : Broken Time-Space, PL-104
ENERGY: 8
Basic Energy: 8
8 : Psychic Energy, GS-119Broken Ground Gym is my proxy for Lost World.
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