Mewtwo EX and Pokemon Catcher

[GeoEdge]

I'll be honest (not bitter) when i say i'm not a very big fan of our current format and i will be very honest on when i say why, and it's for two reasons, one being Mewtwo Ex, and the other, being Pokemon Catcher...what was that? did i hear someone yell out "change the record", ok ok, i may not be the first person to ever have these thoughts, but i want to elaborate and express why i personally think Mewtwo and Catcher are both good and bad for the game.



It's not so much the fact that mewtwo ex and pokemon catcher exsist it's more about the number of mewtwo ex and pokemon catcher you are allowed to have in your deck, if you were only allowed to have 1 mewtwo ex and 1 catcher per deck (treated like if they were aspec cards) then i believe the format right now would be at least somewhat more balanced and more diverse then what it it is now. Look at what the format is now...a lot of games are decided by how many mewtwo you play and who got the last kill in a mewtwo war, players are even sometimes able to just power up a mewtwo and mow through their opponents field if the opponent doesn't play mewtwo, which is another think i believe is just plain wrong in todays format, that being that if you do not mewtwo ex, whether to choose not to run him or just don't have him, then theres a very good, if not absolute possibility that you will not win that battle. A broken card is a broken card, and theirs nothing wrong with broken abilitys broken combos etc, but i do believe when a single card, defines a format, then something should be done about it, especially since all thats going to mean is that you either run mewtwo or you lose. It's almost like in todays format you run mewtwo's and alternative attackers, forget your entire deck concept because the majority of the time you're going to be attacking with mewtwo, hell i mean we got eels that went from having electric attackers to now all mewtwos and a few alternative attackers, mewtwo is overpowered and theres nothing wrong with that i just think that what actually makes him broken is the fact that you can run 4, not so much x-ball.



Now lets move on and talk about pokemon catcher, i believe this card would be fair if you were only allowed to run 1, even with junk arm not being legal anymore, given the option to bring out any of your opponents pokemon for no cost what so ever other then to play a trainer, and almost always get a free prize if not two is just wrong, and even though junk arm isn't legal, it doesn't really feel like it matters when sableye is legal, and there is still a way to get back your catchers. If catcher was restricted to 1 a deck, then it wouldn't really matter too much if sableye could still fish it out of your discard, because you would only run one copy anyway and wasting a turn trying to get a catcher with a sableye might not be worth the risk given situation you might be in, you'd be forced to think your moves a lot more instead of just autopiloting throughout the entire game. That's my biggest problem with Mewtwo ex and pokemon catcher, is the fact that you almost don't really have to know how to play well you just have to have mewtwos some dce's and catchers and you're good to go and you'll probably win the entire game if you win the mewtwo war, i mean what's there to think about there? i can see how someone would just autopilot the entire game and forget they were even playing at all, but if mewtwo and catcher were restricted you'd have to actually think about when you'd ever want to play mewtwo or your one catcher because given the fact that everyone would run 1 mewtwo, that would mean putting down mewtwo first, would probably not be the wisest decision.



Even with mewtwo ex restricted to one you'd still have super rod, rescue scarf, revive, whatever other way to get him back, and that's perfectly fine, no problem if you want to be able to bring back mewtwo i just think you should have to work for that kind of power, because if it's just an easy process then theres no real skill involved there, and that makes for a boring "catcher out so and so and my mewtwo is going to kill it because it has over 9000 energy on it" format.




(well what about darkrai Geo? you don't think he's broken?, why are you talking bad about mewtwo?!)
Don't take this article wrong i don't mean to pick on mewtwo ex and pokemon catcher like there the only broken cards in todays format, i mean i acknowledge darkrai but i really don't think darkrai is that broken, he's only good because of dark patch, and because he gives your pokemon free retreat, darkrai is OHKO'd by terrakion all day, gets his ability shut down by garbador, and 90 to active 30 to bench is cute and all but it really isn't that broken considering that you have to have dark energy in your discard, you have to have dark patches in your hand, and guess what? smeargle isn't legal anymore so no more playing more then one supporter in a turn which means T1 darkrai is pretty rare. Darkrai is easy to counter however Mewtwo is not because he's only weak to psychic and i'm not sure if you're noticed but theres not that many heavy hitting psychic pokemon in todays format, and if there is they're not basics, and they're not easy to power up, mewtwo is splashable because x-ball is a colorless attack and though sigilyph is a card, doesn't mean your opponent isn't going to catcher out something.




All in all i feel that restrictions on mewtwo ex and pokemon catcher would give way to a more open and diverse format and bring an end to a mewtwo warzone where you win solely by having the last say in a mewtwo war. Now notice i didn't mention the word banned toward mewtwo and catcher at all and theres reasoning for that, and that is that i don't believe these cards should be banned, they're great cards, and they have great power that we should be allowed to play with, it makes the format exciting, and top decking that one catcher or getting a mewtwo ex from your prizes and planning your winning move for your next turn, these are things that the format definately should have because it makes the game fun, but where that fun turns to shame is not when you are given power to use, but when you are given power to abuse, and this is all i really tried to explain within this article, Like putting too much sugar in your kool-aid too much of a sweet thing isn't really good for you, and it isn't really good for the format



and these are my thoughts
don't agree? please comment
and let your opinion known!
and if you have the time what card
would you want restricted?
thanks for reading! - Geoedge

 

[Otaku]

Let me get this straight:

You feel a card is overpowered, and the best way to balance that out is to restrict it so instead of being used for a coherent strategy it will become a matter of luck?

Yes, I have reservations that TPC appears to think this way as well. If I think I can play nice, I'll address some of your later thoughts. >.>

---------- Post added 09/17/2012 at 07:38 PM ----------

It's not so much the fact that mewtwo ex and pokemon catcher exsist it's more about the number of mewtwo ex and pokemon catcher you are allowed to have in your deck, if you were only allowed to have 1 mewtwo ex and 1 catcher per deck (treated like if they were aspec cards) then i believe the format right now would be at least somewhat more balanced and more diverse then what it it is now.

First, Mewtwo EX is a Pokémon, and "ACE SPEC" cards appear to be reserved for Items. If both are ACE SPEC, then you could only have one or the other. If this was your intention, my apologies. Otherwise this sounds like you meant that we should have gotten Mewtwo EX [Star] instead of a plain Mewtwo EX: the [Star] mechanic is "ACE SPEC" but for Pokémon. Note that I customarily italicize names of cards, and that the symbol is a part of the name (e.g. you can have the [Star] version of a Pokémon in a deck alongside four normal).

Look at what the format is now...a lot of games are decided by how many mewtwo you play and who got the last kill in a mewtwo war...

Stopping the block of text there for further comment. I believe in a past post you implied it was hard for you to type using "proper" grammar and punctuations, but if that is the case you might consider keeping things short (or finding a better way to post, even if it is more time consuming). You want to communicate with us, right? :biggrin:

Generally speaking, "Mewtwo wars" aren't as common as they used to be. Check this post to see that many decks either aren't running Mewtwo EX, or at least aren't focused on it. Now, "Big attacker" wars are happening, but that seems to be the direction of the format; Player A's "big hitter" versus Player B's "big hitter". One can question the wisdom of releasing Mewtwo EX at the time they did... actually one can question it exactly as you did, but the difference is questioning the release line-up is about how counters for Mewtwo EX came do be, and most of that was just having better specific deck choices and alternatives.

...players are even sometimes able to just power up a mewtwo and mow through their opponents field if the opponent doesn't play mewtwo, which is another think i believe is just plain wrong in todays format, that being that if you do not mewtwo ex, whether to choose not to run him or just don't have him, then theres a very good, if not absolute possibility that you will not win that battle.

Confusing formatting and sentence structure. Not trying to nitpick, just warning you I may be misunderstanding you. Still I will try to answer/comment.

Players are able to power up an attacker and mow through the opponent's field when one player sets up a good attacker and the opponent can't set-up (or play a quick) counter. That is the nature of Pokémon at the moment, and is not directly the fault of Mewtwo EX nor unique to it.

There are several support cards that allow Mewtwo EX (and other Pokémon) to do this, and several cards that I feel were questionably designed (and I am not speaking on the competitive side of things) which have little hope of fighting back even if they lack some obvious, intentional vulnerability (e.g. Weakness). One must examine those cards as well.

A broken card is a broken card, and theirs nothing wrong with broken abilitys broken combos etc...

Says you; I firmly believe their is something wrong with something "...so unbalancing it ruins ("breaks") an otherwise pleasing format, usually by overpowering a significant amount of the card pool without the appropriate investments in set-up; in the most extreme cases allowing a player to win without the opponent getting even a single turn."

This is by no means a thorough definition, though I have given it some thought. Also, if enough broken cards come out, one can argue that the non-broken cards have been downgraded to flawed or filler status (instead of being good or great (but not broken) themselves, and is still cause for concern (less so depending on the time scale).

In this case, I believe there is cause for concern because of widely varying power levels in different parts of the game for the last several years. I missed much of DP-On, but the power creep already present before hand seemed to pick up the pace a bit then (perhaps due to the "zero energy" attacks debuting) and once we got to things like Pokémon SP all bets were off. The HeartGold/SoulSilver block of sets seemed to be a soft-reset, making them fairly weak compared to older cards... and unfortunately newer cards, given notable exceptions (mostly the "Prime" rarity).

Most of the unbalance we face comes from something specific: over-abundant/under-priced Energy acceleration and/or modern Energy-to-damage ratios.

but i do believe when a single card, defines a format, then something should be done about it, especially since all thats going to mean is that you either run mewtwo or you lose.

That is no longer true; something was done about it, they released cards that rivaled it as well as some that would counter it even lacking those rivals.

Skipping the part that seems just like a rant...

...better still instead of quoting it, I'll just respond. Pokémon Catcher exists because of secure Bench in this format would be a "broken" Bench. Stop and really think about what is played, and what would be played. Now think about what I said with regards to Energy acceleration and damage-to-Energy ratios. The reason Pokémon Catcher is annoying is because even early game, just about anything can be forced Active and OHKOed.

When there is no OHKO (enabled by the acceleration and ratios), then Switch actually does function as a proper counter to Pokémon Catcher; instead of scoring an easy Prize while probably damaging your set-up, your main attacker is now lasting an extra turn and it will take a second such assault to score the needed KO... and you've got time to play a healing card on whatever was forced up front!

One of either or both of these cards per deck would only create different problems while adding a new one: lucky draws. This is what worries me about the ACE SPEC mechanic; I fear this will just create a "Powah play!" that belongs in a Yu-Gi-Oh cartoon. Instead of winning due to say a lucky coin flip, now it will be a lucky draw... and if someone can find a good way to spam the ACE SPEC card, I don't know if that is any better than winning because of luckily drawing it.

The ACE SPEC mechanic isn't "working for it", its "lucking for it" or "looking for it" if the card can be searched out. :nonono:

As for your analysis of Darkrai EX, I feel it is lacking.

The only good thing about ACE SPEC that I am convinced of is... it can help Unlimited. :lol:

 

[Tagrineth]

Mewtwo is not broken or overpowered in this format, and more and more decks don't really care much at all if the opponent's active is a Mewtwo EX or not. Garchomp for example quite comfortably swings away off 1 energy and 140 HP, meaning Mewtwo needs 3 hits to KO unless it attaches a 3rd Energy - and Garchomp's own attack slows down Mewtwo's build because most Mewtwo decks rely on DCE.

Darkrai also laughs and shrugs off Mewtwo.

It's still a strong card but it's hardly the end-all beater it was when NXD came out.

 

[AyameHikaru]

One of either or both of these cards per deck would only create different problems while adding a new one: lucky draws. This is what worries me about the ACE SPEC mechanic; I fear this will just create a "Powah play!" that belongs in a Yu-Gi-Oh cartoon. Instead of winning due to say a lucky coin flip, now it will be a lucky draw... and if someone can find a good way to spam the ACE SPEC card, I don't know if that is any better than winning because of luckily drawing it.

The ACE SPEC mechanic isn't "working for it", its "lucking for it" or "looking for it" if the card can be searched out. :nonono:

Yugioh has an insane amount of reliance on topdecking. I mean, Yugioh printed a BILL and promptly banned it. To my knowledge it's STILL forbidden, even all these years later. It's one of the reasons I left the Yugioh scene. Magic is better, but even then there's basically no search. (Correct me if I'm wrong, I've been out of both games for quite a while.) Compared to that, Pokemon players are used to being able to search and draw reliably, something that would be a joke in the other two of the "Big Three".

That being said, I do have to point out that both Roserade and Skyla can search for an Ace Spec, unless the English version of Skyla is translated differently. Sableye can also recycle Ace Specs.

I think it would have been a more interesting mechanic if they'd done something other than just limit the card to one copy a deck. I mean, what about something like "When you play this card from your hand, it is attached to the Active Pokemon instead of discarded. (If the Active already has a Pokemon tool attached, you can't play this card.) If the Pokemon this Ace Spec is attached to is knocked out, your opponent takes an additional prize. Any Pokemon with an Ace Spec attached is not a valid target for Super Scoop Up." Or you could try "If you play an Ace Spec, none of your Pokemon may attack that turn".

The Ace Specs kind of remind me of Expert Belt, so I think that instead of limiting one per deck, using a drawback would be better. That way you don't have to rely on luck, as was stated just above me, to get them out, but you'd still think twice before playing them.

Also, a lot of decks that have Mewtwo in them already only run 1-2. So limiting that to one per deck wouldn't actually change much.

 

[Kayle]

Going to be honest - I didn't read any of the walls of text here. Not out of heartlessness or anything, I just don't have the energy to spare. But I've put some thought into both of these cards so I wanted to share those thoughts.

I quit when Mewtwo was released. It just looked so obnoxious that I didn't even want to play. So I understand why you would be upset about it. And even now, it holds a property that was very frustrating about the last format I took seriously (SP era), which is that it destroys any deck that isn't prepared for it, making it very difficult to play something silly and cutesy for fun.

But in the circle of tier-one decks Mewtwo is quite balanced. Darkrai destroys it. Garchomp and Empoleon trade favorably with it. Sigilyph now exists to offer some decks a secondary answer to it. It's still a massive threat, of course, but not as format-defining as it used to be.

As for Catcher, the opposite feeling entirely... I saw Catcher's spoiler and was immediately ecstatic about playing with it. People were complaining about balance and overpowered disruption - and I can see that complaint being much stronger in a format with Junk Arm - but I knew that the card would just signal a new format. A paradigm shift, where the Bench is not simply a safe haven, and where there are more offensive options for literally any deck. It was a change I liked. It's a change I still like.

Fact is, there are only four catcher at most in a deck. That's a severe limitation already; you can only do it four times, discounting unfortunate Juniper drops (and junk hunt, I guess). That's enough for great offensive utility, but not enough that it can't be worked around or beaten. Luxchomp could Bright Look 5-6 times per game depending on their Lv. X count and how they used their Poke-Turns, and between Bright Look and Dragon Rush they were more than capable of taking 8-10 prizes off of Benched Pokemon at that time. Coming out of that format into a format with Catcher in it... it's hard to consider Catcher more overpowered (especially since ANY DECK can run it).

I understand that Mewtwo limiting fun decks isn't enjoyable for some people. I also understand that more tanky/defensive players don't like the offensive utility that Catcher brings. If you just outright don't think the format is fun, that's cool. But I definitely feel that it's pretty balanced right now.

 

[CrystalEyeMonster]

Going to be honest - I didn't read any of the walls of text here. Not out of heartlessness or anything, I just don't have the energy to spare. But I've put some thought into both of these cards so I wanted to share those thoughts.

I quit when Mewtwo was released. It just looked so obnoxious that I didn't even want to play. So I understand why you would be upset about it. And even now, it holds a property that was very frustrating about the last format I took seriously (SP era), which is that it destroys any deck that isn't prepared for it, making it very difficult to play something silly and cutesy for fun.

But in the circle of tier-one decks Mewtwo is quite balanced. Darkrai destroys it. Garchomp and Empoleon trade favorably with it. Sigilyph now exists to offer some decks a secondary answer to it. It's still a massive threat, of course, but not as format-defining as it used to be.

As for Catcher, the opposite feeling entirely... I saw Catcher's spoiler and was immediately ecstatic about playing with it. People were complaining about balance and overpowered disruption - and I can see that complaint being much stronger in a format with Junk Arm - but I knew that the card would just signal a new format. A paradigm shift, where the Bench is not simply a safe haven, and where there are more offensive options for literally any deck. It was a change I liked. It's a change I still like.

Fact is, there are only four catcher at most in a deck. That's a severe limitation already; you can only do it four times, discounting unfortunate Juniper drops (and junk hunt, I guess). That's enough for great offensive utility, but not enough that it can't be worked around or beaten. Luxchomp could Bright Look 5-6 times per game depending on their Lv. X count and how they used their Poke-Turns, and between Bright Look and Dragon Rush they were more than capable of taking 8-10 prizes off of Benched Pokemon at that time. Coming out of that format into a format with Catcher in it... it's hard to consider Catcher more overpowered (especially since ANY DECK can run it).

I understand that Mewtwo limiting fun decks isn't enjoyable for some people. I also understand that more tanky/defensive players don't like the offensive utility that Catcher brings. If you just outright don't think the format is fun, that's cool. But I definitely feel that it's pretty balanced right now.

Other than all of this (I haven't quit) But Catcher was the game winning card for Worlds. Catcher Mewtwo Energy Plus power.
Just completly broken and I can't Mewtwo War for the life of me...
Well then..

 

[kirbyking]

Other than all of this (I haven't quit) But Catcher was the game winning card for Worlds. Catcher Mewtwo Energy Plus power.
Just completly broken and I can't Mewtwo War for the life of me...
Well then..

If you can't Mewtwo war that's a STRATEGY problem and has nothing to do with the card.

 

[Kayle]

Other than all of this (I haven't quit) But Catcher was the game winning card for Worlds. Catcher Mewtwo Energy Plus power.
Just completly broken and I can't Mewtwo War for the life of me...
Well then..

Uxie Lv. X was the game winning card for worlds before last, does that make it completely broken?

 

[Otaku]

Yugioh has an insane amount of reliance on topdecking. I mean, Yugioh printed a BILL and promptly banned it. To my knowledge it's STILL forbidden, even all these years later. It's one of the reasons I left the Yugioh scene.

Nope; the basic facts aren't quite accurate and the differences between the two games becomes much more important.

Short answer is Pot of Greed is the Yu-Gi-Oh equivalent of Bill was restricted to one copy per deck as soon as the game's original "Forbidden and Limited" list came out (fairly early in the game's life; Japan had already taken such measures long ago). Eventually it was Banned completely, though the general understanding is no card is truly Banned for ever... just because that is there policy, not because the game has become balanced.

Long answer are the important game play differences between the two games. Yu-Gi-Oh has a minimum deck size of 40 cards, and when I played competitive decks were "fat" if they hit 45; 40-42 was norm. So while the number of options "added" to hand is the same, a larger portion of the deck is being searched. Yu-Gi-Oh also lacks an equivalent to "Energy", "Mana", or other resource cards, cards that exist in a game almost solely to fuel other card effects.

Imagine if Pokémon, as a TCG, was structured so that Energy cards didn't exist; now think of of how much more potent draw power is when you aren't reliant on what is normally a "once-per-turn" card and your deck doesn't have to incorporate it. Your draws are effectively "deeper" or "bigger"; without needing Energy its all either Trainers or Pokémon. Even Energy efficient decks would love an extra 8 or so slots. This can be a bit harder to grasp if you've only experienced the most recent, Energy acceleration heavy formats.

Lastly the win conditions and mechanics of battle are different. It is really hard to quantify most of that but... what would happen to Pokémon draw power if a specific five card hand was a literal autowin? Such is the nature of the infamous Exodia. There is also no equivalent to Supporters in that game, and as the game progressed draw power became more common. Yu-Gi-Oh is a game full of powerful (in my estimation, over-powered) cards in a "condensed" game system that makes draw and search power exponentially more powerful, even when the cost and effects seem almost identical.

Magic is better, but even then there's basically no search. (Correct me if I'm wrong, I've been out of both games for quite a while.) Compared to that, Pokemon players are used to being able to search and draw reliably, something that would be a joke in the other two of the "Big Three".

That being said, I do have to point out that both Roserade and Skyla can search for an Ace Spec, unless the English version of Skyla is translated differently. Sableye can also recycle Ace Specs.

Which in no way mitigates the "powah play!" factor. It is a lot like the "tails fails" method of balancing cards; if you make an effect too powerful then try to "balance" it with a coin flip, you just end up with a less reliable but still too powerful effect or you finally weaken it to the point it is all but worthless. Rarely do you get a well balanced effect and the examples I can think of that might qualify usually required a pretty "crazy powerful" format.

Searching out a card helps mitigate the drawback of having to draw into it... so if anything, that just makes the ACE SPEC cards even less balanced. "If your deck runs an card that can search them out, you can avoid not making your 'powah play!' too late. You can still top deck it at the right time, however."

The quantity of the card is a good indicator; you can't run the normal four cards per deck that another Item would have, so relying on it means a deck completely built around it (high risk for either being fragile or overpowered, sometimes at the same time ) or you just build a normal deck less one card, and replace it with your ACE SPEC for that semi-random strong play!

tl;dr: ACE SPEC ultimately ends up being the "lose-lose" proposition of "tails fails" cards (from a format perspective). Either the card is still so amazing that the "tails fails" (or being your one-per-deck allowance) still remains amazing, or it renders the card mere filler.

 

[BruinsRage]

Mewtwo is overpowered......along with catcher......

 

[TrainerEnjay]

I disagree with mewtwo being overpowered. Sigilyph ends mewtwo, darkrai has resistance, mew has options, rayquaza can one shot and discards energy so it wont get hit hard by another mewtwo. It's nice to have in decks, but I wouldn't even say it is the best pokemon in the format. Darkrai, followed closely by Terrakion, then Mewtwo. Everyone has access to catcher, and i love the options given by catcher. Catcher actually makes mewtwo less overpowered. Think if u can just charge up mewtwos on the bench with no worries, the whole format would probably just be mewtwo charged by eelektrik.

 

[Otaku]

Remember, something can be overpowered but still have a counter. This was one of my points that probably got swallowed in my mega posts. It can be a pretty deep issue to debate, and will be heavily influenced by personal perception and enjoyment of the game.

I actually consider most recent cards "overpowered", because the combination of speed, damage output and ability to leverage the massive HP scores of Pokémon EX ultimately lead to pacing I don't like. Within the format themselves, however, many of the cards balance each other out. It isn't that I want one or the other "gone", but both... or in some cases what I feel enables a lot of the unpleasantly hurried pace; the Energy acceleration.

 

[ShadowGuard]

Magic is better, but even then there's basically no search. (Correct me if I'm wrong, I've been out of both games for quite a while.)

There are quite some draw and search spells in magic which see play, but far less than in Pokémon. btw I'd say that at least 70% of the available deck searches performed in Magic target only basic lands.

Darkrai, followed closely by Terrakion, then Mewtwo.

Terrakion is no way better than Mewtwo. And the only reason Darkrai is better is beacuse of a) darkness support and b) ironically, Mewtwo-EX itself (Mewtwo-EX can be easily OHKOd by another Mewtwo-EX techable in almost any deck, which makes it somewhat fragile, Darkrai is more sturdy).

and i love the options given by catcher.

What about the options taken by Catcher? Most stage 2 Pokémon that would be otherwise very interesting are rendered useless. You remember Nidoqueen RR? Quite a popular card. Serperior BLW is even better but not played because of catcher. Celebi-EX from Boundaries Crossed? Gosh, what possibilies and skill-based strategies! Oh, wait, it can be catchered for two prizes... nah, forget it. Just two of many examples.

Think if u can just charge up mewtwos on the bench with no worries, the whole format would probably just be mewtwo charged by eelektrik.

Is that a problem? If my opponent charges up a Mewtwo I could snipe with Raikou-EX, play Ninetales, hide behind Sigilyph or whatever. I'd rather have this than getting my Tynamo catcherKOed before I can evolve it.
And even if there could really be games focused on Mewtwo - it would be a Mewtwo war like we have it now, just that one would be decided by who plays in a more tactical way, not who starts the game or topdecks the better cards after N.

 

[Otaku]

ShadowGuard: Thanks for correcting me... because those weren't my words. :lol: It is sad but I messed up a quote tag and that whole section was a part of the post by AyameHikaru I was quoting. Completely my fault, so please don't take this as an accusation: I said it without meaning to say it! :redface:

I've never really played Magic: The Gathering. I read about it a little, played one of those "demos" repeatedly, but bad experiences with Magic players when I was first getting into Pokémon (as in back in 1999) lead me to avoid it on purpose for years, and then I just lacked the time or money later on (sometimes due to other TCGs). Plus given my obsessive nature, I'd make myself learn all about the game's history; quite daunting!

I played Yu-Gi-Oh pretty extensively (save for never being able to hit major tournaments) for its first few years, then tried to at least stay "current" when I had to cut back, but now I am out of the game due to a lack of funds and nerd rage over the game's direction... which is not a thread for this board except as a warning of the direction TPC needs to avoid.

Getting back on topic (at least a little), while a TCG is already a "high risk, high reward" hobby (so much to gain from it, but so much to lose if you behave badly) I still recommend players dabble in a second TCG so they can gain a better appreciation of how both games work.

So far, I have a sizable body of knowledge for Pokémon (past and present), a good-sized chunk of knowledge for Yu-Gi-Oh (past to recent past), a good-sized chunk of knowledge for the dead Mega Man TCG from Decipher (wasn't a good player, however ), and good working knowledge of Duel Masters (recently revived, with tweaks, as Kaijudo), though that I didn't play long and I was bad at. Oh, and same for Chaotic, which I got to play even less than I did any other TCG I where I made a real effort.

Still, even the games I barely know and was bad at have taught me about card design, card balance, game design, and game balance (and how not to market a TCG with both a video game and animation tie in, right Decipher and... whoever was in charge of Chaotic?). All the TCGs have a lot in common, but have very important differences.

Take the big, obvious one of how Pokémon doesn't have to use its "resource card" (Energy) to pay for most Trainers. Also, note I said "resource card"; Pokémon has resources of various types, but Energy is a card almost exclusively used to pay for the costs of other cards (generally Pokémon attack Energy requirements).

So the power level of an Item card is insane by Magic: The Gathering standards, where "free" Spells are rare (most at least cost a single mana if I remember correctly), and for that matter so are the effects of Supporters, even if they are a "once-per-turn" card, few reference Energy cards at all as some sort of cost. Yu-Gi-Oh has many potent cards that are Restricted (one per deck) or Semi-Restricted (two per deck) and its been a while, so that terminology might be wrong. :lol: Still, the important thing is in that game, the default limit for cards is three per deck. Given the other differences, I have no idea if this keeps things equivalent or not between the many other games that allow four per deck. Chaotic allowed only two per deck!

So again, what this has to do with the conversation at hand is with more experience, you can properly qualify the state of a game. As bad as Mewtwo EX was, for example, it was no BLS. No, not Blastoise ex/Lugia ex/Steelix ex, there was a good reason why players like myself insisted on referring to that deck as "LBS". To a Yu-Gi-Oh player, BLS will likely always be short for Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning. Those that know Yu-Gi-Oh can understand that statement pretty easily, but to explain it to a "pure" Pokémon... well see how long this post already went? Odds are I'd end up doubling it!

 

[SuperWooper]

Better Catcher than Pokemon Reversal, especially with Junk Arm gone. And Mewtwo wars are much less common now than they were last format. This topic is a year too late.

 

[Otaku]

Agree on Pokémon Catcher versus Pokémon Reversal; the latter just gave this false sense of security to the less skilled players, and somehow being at the top cut because of Reversal coin flips going your way just seems wrong... which was my point of concern over the ACE SPEC mechanic, since it might make top decking one's ACE SPEC card (or a Skyla at the exact right time) a similar manner of luck determining tournaments.

...

My other posts are long winded, I find restating the point when appropriate (and within the rules) helpful.

 

[TrainerEnjay]

Terrakion is no way better than Mewtwo. And the only reason Darkrai is better is beacuse of a) darkness support and b) ironically, Mewtwo-EX itself (Mewtwo-EX can be easily OHKOd by another Mewtwo-EX techable in almost any deck, which makes it somewhat fragile, Darkrai is more sturdy).

I disagree. Terrakion imo is better than mewtwo. Terrakion gives problems to darkai and eel decks. 2 best decks in the format. Terrakion is hard to take down, has solid damage output, only gives up one prize. Terrakion can be a tech, or he can be his own deck. Terrakion 2 shots mewtwo, mewtwo usually has to 2 shot terrakion as well but only for a single prize. Mewtwo takes down mewtwo, but cant easily take down empoleon, garchomp, rayquaza, darkrai. Sigilyph destroys it. This is my opinion, you can have yours.

 

[vaporeon]

My 2 cents. I hate when I'm forced to go second when my opponents starting Mewtwo ex and DCE. On my first turn I attach a energy and then pass. It get catchered up and X balled for 60 or 80 damage, making that Pokemon useless. Mewtwo EX is a broken card because it has a good matchup with everything.. How did the game fix this? They printed a bunch of attackers that hit hard and discards energy (Raikou EX, Hydragon) and other that hit hard for 1 energy (Empoleon, Garchomp) and the others resist it

All that did was create another problem. Stage 2 Pokemon are now as powerful, if not more powerful then the EX Pokemon now. Now the Stage 2 Pokemon outclass everything else that's not EX. They feel that only Legendary Pokemon should be EX and that's messing with the flow of things. They give Shaymin EX 110 HP, Mew EX 120 and Ho-Oh ex 160 HP while the others have at least 170.

But back to Mewtwo EX being broken. if you don't play Mewtwo, you just lose in most cases. You need Mewtwo to beat mewtwo. its as simple as that. Darkrai does not need it. Every other deck does because E Ball just overpowers you if you don't have a Mewtwo of your own. Watch gameplay videos of this format with Mewtwo.

Sigilyph ability is not needed in this format right now because every attacker right now is an EX. it's ability makes every deck very inconsistent because players would need to run non EX attackers. This is not a complaint as I feel this is good for the game overall but the was in was force in is not good for the game. This is such a hard counter that it just throws the game off.

As far as everything else is... The game is very imbalanced. We get 3 sets into black and white before we get the return of EX Pokemon. Cards that would not normally work on them do (Max Potion and Eviolite) and the power balances are insane. Deck Matchups are also bad to where if a card was made to beat another, its like 50/50.

They need to fix the game because to me, its unplayable. Everything is just far to random and inconstant for me to spend my time playing it.

 

[Otaku]

Terrakion can be a tech...

Not by the definition of the term. For the record, below reflects not just my opinion but historical fact. TecH isn't a term randomly coined or jargon from another game, but was "invented" for Pokémon to refer to something quite specific. Part of this is because of the relatively unique nature of Pokémon; cards that would be "TecH" for other games instead wind up in the Side Board/Deck/Whatever it is called... which voids about half of what I say below, hence why the term is inappropriate in those games.

"TecH" is one card added to a deck to provide technical advantage... which was used to describe it because players analyzing decks would note that in most match-ups, the "TecH" would actually decrease the odds of winning, simply by being a dead draw. The TecH card exists to counter a critical match-up and originally only referred to Trainers, and was later expanded.

There is some allowance for more than one card if it is an Evolution or similar card that requires multiple cards to get into play: 1-1 of a Stage 1, 1-1-1 of a Stage 2, or 1-0-1 of a Stage 2 (if Rare Candy is already included in the deck). Two copies of a Basic Pokémon, a Trainer, or an Energy? Not TecH. 2-0-2 Stage 2 line? Not TecH. There are other terms, like splash, metagaming, etc. that refer to such things.

Now, if you have a deck that can meet the Energy requirements for Terrakion EX to attack you might consider it TecH in such a deck, but TecH really isn't meant for an aggressive, attacking Pokémon unless its usage as such is quite, quite narrow. If it was aggressive (e.g. attacking for good damage and that being the reason to run it) but basically worthless to attack with except against one Pokémon central to a deck your deck has a bad match-up against, it might count as TecH (opinion varies on this, much like some would only allow for Trainers played as singles to count as TecH).

As that is a little confusing, here is a historical example. Due to Slowking (Neo Genesis 14/111) and to a lesser extent, Dark Vileplume (Team Rocket 13/82, 30/82) Brock's Mankey (Gym Heroes 67/132) was run as TecH. The reason was its first attack, Taunt which for the cost of colorless let you select one of your opponent's Benched Pokémon and force it into the Active slot. This happened because the Trainer blocking Pokémon Powers were so very, very potent and the Pokémon with them usually sat on the Bench and couldn't attack or Retreat well.

Any match lacking one of those two? Brock's Mankey was a liability; it was a 40 HP Basic Pokémon in a format where that wasn't a hard first-turn KO. Since you would only play it down because you had to (or felt you had to - e.g. your other Basic was also small), it usually was a liability outside of saving you from a brutal beating at the hand of the two major branches of Trainer-lock decks.

 

[baby mario]

I feel like we have been through this so many times before.

When I first joined the Gym in 2008, we had pretty much this exact same thread, except it was all about Absol SW, and how it could decide a game on the first turn if you got lucky with Baleful Wind.

There will always be powerful cards. There will never be a ban or a limit on any of them. Learn how to use them or develop ways to counter them: those are your only sensible options.