Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Official Ban Gardevoir for Worlds 2008 Discussion

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I only had 1 league session that I tested Queendom in before playing it in the City Championships. Please, can you and others stop assuming they know what's going on with someone else? I love how people seem to "know" what's going on somewhere else as well [insert sarcasm]. We all know the stupid deck, and it's many variants, works. We all know that it's not an instant win in the hands of a novice and that like ANY deck, if you want to win or win with some consistency that it takes practice. Get over it.

And on that note, are we still bent on whining about how Gardevoir should be banned, or are we now just in the phase of, "my deck can be up your deck" / "my skill is better than yours"?

p.s. If you're going to post a retort, please spell check and grammar check your reply.

"Know" he said he took the list so I the assumption is he built it that day. Thats what it was, a assumption. My goodness young man,you dont know either so your doing the same arent you??No body is questioning anything about the deck ditka,hes basicially saying,I picked up the deck and did well with it,thats what we are discussing,so please pay attention or you just think you "know" what your talking about.

Spell check and grammar,hmmm I guess you cant even think of good insults if you have to attack grammar/spelling on a forum. If it was a argument,then we know you wouldn't win.

p.s-please come back with aleast a decent insult if you are going to try an "clown" someone.Thanx
 
Well ya' know the old saying, if you cant beat em, join em

that right there is the problem, everyone is turning to GG decks so they can win. The deck does take skill to play but that's only in certain situations. If you're lucky enough to not be in those situations then you should be able to win. I know a kid who took a GG deck to his first tourny ever and he won because he just used psychic lock against Gator in the finals, along the day he also faced Electivire and a random deck. He also made top cut at other tournies because he got the same matchups. At worlds (since there will be no ban) we can only hope people don't run GG.
 
"Know" he said he took the list so I the assumption is he built it that day. Thats what it was, a assumption. My goodness young man,you dont know either so your doing the same arent you??No body is questioning anything about the deck ditka,hes basicially saying,I picked up the deck and did well with it,thats what we are discussing,so please pay attention or you just think you "know" what your talking about.

Spell check and grammar,hmmm I guess you cant even think of good insults if you have to attack grammar/spelling on a forum. If it was a argument,then we know you wouldn't win.

p.s-please come back with aleast a decent insult if you are going to try an "clown" someone.Thanx

Actually, I was the one running the tournament he played in and was referencing, so yeah, I do know what he was talking about. :thumb:
 
but i mean
whats the acual point of banning a card for 1 tournament
that in itself doesnt make any sence
and i know its a good deck and i understaind how good it is
but id let this worlds stay
and next year it should be less complained about
 
you know what, I'll sneak into the worlds and beat everyone with some old school deck, not an arch type or removals but with old school cards. I'm like a ninja and I got disney membership. I can take...or at least out tough em'! *flexs flabby arm* or not....


this whole thing makes me what to build a new deck with these new cards and show everyone how freaked out tehy are over nothing. calm down kiddies, (maybe I should too) it's a children's card game. the meta can seem daunting but you must live with hope.

let me tell you a story: There was a servant who offended a great warrior. the warrior demanded he be put to death. the lord wom the servant worked for aloowed the servant a chance to regain his honour through a contest of swords. the servant went in and beat 3 other warriors and the offended warrior. The servant however had no training in the art of thw sword. What was his secret? he went in without fear.

this is a very extreme comparison but it can still apply with pokemon. if you go in without panic or fear you can win. use your head.



I think this about as far as I can dig in but I can say I tried. I'll crawl back into the hole of which I came from. the land of old school hermits. we have long white beards (like father christmas) and big pointy walking sticks. we have no need for ya youngin's! bah!
 
If it's just a childrens game then why do we all play it?
Well. All of those who say that GG is easy to beat and it just takes the right rogue, I will expect you all to grind in.
I don't want to hear any "I'm not going to worlds, its too expensive" or "I have better things to do", well if you have the deck and combo that can easily put GG in its place then I think it would be well worth your time and money to go, seeing as how easy it would be to win, thus getting your easy prize money and mass amounts of boxes to sell.
Go and win, give out your secret combo that will win, or be quiet.
 
Worlds 2009: make all of the players use the Majestic Dawn/Legends Awakened-on format.
 
Disable FTW!

When I won my medal, Blissey + Sableye was the play and I beat 3 GG decks with it. There are things to counter GG it just takes a bit of initiative! I switched to BlissCatty in Houston and beat 2 GG decks to come in 2nd. It is the Player and the testing put into the counter that has the REAL chance.. *see Jimmy Ballard and others like him!

Disable irritated the GG player to a point of forcing them to Have to use Gallade and most of the time they had to flip at least one prize giving me an advantage with FF attached to Blissey Tanks! and then continuing to Disable Pstchic Lock to stack 10 at a time!

What beats GG, a great player! If GG was that truly strong, T16 at Nats would have been all Garde based on the sheer numbers of versions being played!

People also tend to forget Mismagius as a counter right along with Amnesia and Disable style attacks!

Don't fear the card, embrace it and be thankful for the Game we have to complain over such a small factor in everyday lives!

POP/PUI maintains a healthy environment and relies on its players to strengthen the knowledge of the game and the Spirit of it!

Fish
 
Sableye is a joke :/ I tried it myself but it just didn't work, Plox has teleport / Moon Gym, can just brng down something, Warp Point it back, or just retreat.
If the Gardi you blocked is normal, itl level up, if it already is itl send up one of his friends
Just doesn't work :/
 
Sableye is a joke :/ I tried it myself but it just didn't work, Plox has teleport / Moon Gym, can just brng down something, Warp Point it back, or just retreat.
If the Gardi you blocked is normal, itl level up, if it already is itl send up one of his friends
Just doesn't work :/

Tell that to the Garde Players that lost to it :thumb:
:thumb:

This is the type of close mindedness I am concerned about as a player and overall addict of this game. It takes consistency to have something work and months of testing! All of the things you stated are important parts of the game. If they Warp you, you just burned an asset for them. If they are forced to Level Up, then it is out and you can work around the LvX because it is no longer a "when are they going to do it"! If the retreat they are burning resources of energy again (ahich happened often after a disable. Stadiums only last for the one turn usually and then it can be gone! If they bring something else up to KO you, then again you forced them to react to your game changing their mindset and altering the play they wanted to possibly make. All irritaitons that change the rhythm of the game to your advantage. If they have a DRE they either have to Flip a Prize or burn PP/SC for the ko again burnging the resources. And if they KO it, you bring another up while your building that Blissey/Magmortar on the Bench!

This game is LUCK and Skill, all of which in certain decks skill is needed more than luck!

IN the words of the one of the BEST characters ever:
"Come with me
And you'll be
In a world of
Pure imagination
Take a look
And you'll see
Into your imagination

We'll begin
With a spin
Traveling in
The world of my creation
What we'll see
Will defy
Explanation

If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanta change the world?
There's nothing
To it,"

Creativity and trying multiple things in this current format is what it will take, just ask Colin! This is by no means a stab at you directly, it is just tiring of hearing the same ole thing every rotation when any particular deck becomes too dominant. People lose focus and don't open the binder and just try different things in their test groups. Sausage works, Torterrible works, Ding Dong- Bronzong works!

It takes a well tested deck and a well versed player and minimal misplay (I still <3 you jkwarrior!)

The conditions are ripe for someone to create somethign to completely take out GG and catch everyone by surprise, just as World's does every year! This is a healthy environment, it is just an unhealthy creative process do to concession by posts like this one.

Remember, the deck is only as good as the player whose hands it's in! SotG Always!!

Fish
 
Its too late to do anything about it, and I would be disapointed in PUI if they put any restrictions on its at this point, in this season. If they do something next season, thats okay (They shouldnt have to with all the new cards comming out, but meh). Its too late in this season to make such a major change in the format.

However, I, being the fount of wisdom that I am, have a perfect solution, that neaither bans nor restricts the use of Gardevoir OR Gallade.

Reprint Here Comes Team Rocket in a PoP set.
 
Tell that to the Garde Players that lost to it :thumb:
:thumb:

This is the type of close mindedness I am concerned about as a player and overall addict of this game

I'm 8th place ranked in European ranking using roques the entire year.
I've startet testing with MD 2 Month before german nationals (31.5), i came in 5th place after 1 place before topcut using a roque, i've been testing nearly every frickin day since nationals, just to beet plox. I used so many techs and deck versions ... from sableye to bidoof (how many of you guyes have to look up what he does ? be honest :smile: ) to darkray to mawile to unown .. i dont know.
Please don't tell me i'm closed minded ...



. It takes consistency to have something work and months of testing! All of the things you stated are important parts of the game. If they Warp you, you just burned an asset for them. If they are forced to Level Up, then it is out and you can work around the LvX because it is no longer a "when are they going to do it"!

Once its down on the field it can switch in and out at will. So there goes your great trick :/
I hoped sableye would work but it just doesnt, it helps against gallade butn ot against gardevoir, thats the problem... Its not good enough


If the retreat they are burning resources of energy again (ahich happened often after a disable. Stadiums only last for the one turn usually and then it can be gone!ENought to put down the LvX, and this is where sableye fails.. If they bring something else up to KO you, then again you forced them to react to your game changing their mindset and altering the play they wanted to possibly make.

This is exactly why Plox is so strong, u cant really disrubt it, it always gets what it needs etc...


All irritaitons that change the rhythm of the game to your advantage. If they have a DRE they either have to Flip a Prize or burn PP/SC for the ko again burnging the resources. And if they KO it, you bring another up while your building that Blissey/Magmortar on the Bench!

1 Price is nothing mostly... Sure you can sacrifice but than bring down will give you tons of problems.. This is indeed a strategy I'm using atm, not with sableye but something else, it works, but its dangerous

This game is LUCK and Skill, all of which in certain decks skill is needed more than luck!

The Problem is, you cant counter something that can do anything. Plox hasn't got many weak süpots and exploiting them is difficult

IN the words of the one of the BEST characters ever:
"Come with me
And you'll be
In a world of
Pure imagination
Take a look
And you'll see
Into your imagination

We'll begin
With a spin
Traveling in
The world of my creation
What we'll see
Will defy
Explanation

If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanta change the world?
There's nothing
To it,"

Creativity and trying multiple things in this current format is what it will take, just ask Colin! This is by no means a stab at you directly, it is just tiring of hearing the same ole thing every rotation when any particular deck becomes too dominant. People lose focus and don't open the binder and just try different things in their test groups. Sausage works, Torterrible works, Ding Dong- Bronzong works!

It takes a well tested deck and a well versed player and minimal misplay (I still <3 you jkwarrior!)

The conditions are ripe for someone to create somethign to completely take out GG and catch everyone by surprise, just as World's does every year! This is a healthy environment, it is just an unhealthy creative process do to concession by posts like this one.

Remember, the deck is only as good as the player whose hands it's in! SotG Always!!

Fish

I know what you probably thought about me when you read my last post.
But I assure I'm in no way giving up easily, but the strength of plox is beyond all meta dominating decks that came before. (and i've played ygo a few years, this means something about not giving up and trying to counter the metagame)
And its just frustrating if you test against it every day, its such a boring deck to use and I really hate it but still I'm testing every day for multiple hours. When testing its usually something like "i wanna test" "Ok" "can you use plox ?" "mhm... kay but just 2 games than you have to use it"

And this is just sick, we're so sick and tired of this deck. But it really has an answer to nearly everything.
And this is just why this "just dont be so closed minded, theres a solution to everything , just come up with something new, plox has its weak spots, a good player can easily beat this" ******** (sry but...) is just annoying and insulting somehow,
I always found a coutner to everything and this "you just don't try hard enough" stuff it just makes you angry. Finding a reliable counter for plox is incredible hard, and then to find something that doesn't loose against every other deck. I'm testing like 5 decks and for every of these decks you have to know exactly how to play against plox before you can even talk about making win loose quotes.

Still I'm testing each of these decks just to beat plox...


I don't want to attack you but it really is frustrating, its 6 in the morning and i've been playing against myself for 4 hours now, and still, if i think i found a way to beat plox it comes with something new that gives me problems. Maybe i'm just frustrated (ok, I am frustrated) but please top acting like anyone who cant beat plox isnt trying hard enough.
 
yoshi, I feel your pain. But the point I am trying to give you and the rest of the community is that there is no counter to it. It takes a combonation of cards to successfully defeat it just as it requires a combonaiton of cards to defeat you.

I applaud your efforts and have followed some of your success. I don't play as much but I do Judge often and many times see things in peoples hands that can assist in disrupting the Plox player, but many start the match with the predisposition of "It's PLox so I am going to lose" and get frustrated and make misplays.

Attack me at will as it is a grain of salt and banter is part of the game. As i said, my post wasn't a direct attack at you, but more of the frustration of hearing so many give up so easily... you are obviously on the other side and applaud you for that!

Just keep testing and it will click one day.. as talented as you are, it will just click and then it will be over!

To Rocketman- Age required reference me thinks! See you at Worlds??

To the rest of the Community: Less than a month and rotation will happen and then we can move on to another ban this card topic... open those binders and try things that you haven't.. who knows, it just might work!

SotG!

Fish
 
Come on the only reason you want a ban is you lack the imagination and INTELLIGENCE to beat it. My counters are Scizor unit and Empagius. For Scizor add Cessation Crystal and Crystal Beach and Special Metal Energy. (Give credit here to the wa state tourney coordination.) For Empagius (empo mismagius) add lake boundary cess crystal and delta quagsire for when the crystals are gone. Normally plox will lose here with this or if they do win it will be just barely. In my own experience Scizor Unit is great because it is very fast
 
yoshi, I feel your pain. But the point I am trying to give you and the rest of the community is that there is no counter to it. It takes a combonation of cards to successfully defeat it just as it requires a combonaiton of cards to defeat you.

There are weak spots you have to attack, and plox has one that no one seems to realise.
Kinda like the death star, no one could defeat it in direct battle but if you've got the knowledge about its weak spots and the right pilot you can do it.
But still its incredible hard to do, and even if you find a weak spot, there are still the games where you don't get your ideal start, and if you're plox t3 and got an suboptimal start you loose, no matter what deck you use. And this is what makes Plox so scary, it limits your resources so drastically that you srtuggle to get going at all and you're heavily limited all the game.
You can use whatever deck you want to, a lost wager in combination with Gardevoir locking you and you just drawing energys / wrong evolutions / night and gyms will break your neck, no matter what happens.
And there is no way around this. Because training RPS all day or kicking every death draw out of your deck to add 20 drawing supporters is just stupid.
And its just frustrating, you can keep up all game and get in a somehow good position, its wager lost plox crap draw and gg. Wager is just unfair, as is Plox and as is Dusknoir. I'd so prefer to have rockets admin reprinted.


I applaud your efforts and have followed some of your success.
Lol thanks, but how would you do that xD ? I don't play as much but I do Judge often and many times see things in peoples hands that can assist in disrupting the Plox player, but many start the match with the predisposition of "It's PLox so I am going to lose" and get frustrated and make misplays.

When facing Plox you should have an exact plan of what to do. And if you can get this plan running you can win.
When playing plox against a friend who was testing a deck at one point he was just "ah you locked my, i'll lose, my hand is just bad... I looked at his hand and was just like "wtf what is he talking about" because he had some way to stay in game, I told him and afterwards, with help of some good draws, he won the game. So I really see your point there^^



Attack me at will as it is a grain of salt and banter is part of the game. As i said, my post wasn't a direct attack at you, but more of the frustration of hearing so many give up so easily... you are obviously on the other side and applaud you for that!

No, attacking someone for my frustration about a card game is just dumb. I really excuse for doing this ^^" But these "Plox is soo easy to beat, stop crying" people can become really annoying, not you but some other people in this thead. I know you just wanted to give an example and a starting idea with that sableye thing. It h

Just keep testing and it will click one day.. as talented as you are, it will just click and then it will be over!

Its clicking all day but plox keeps clicking back xD And there is nothing like a reliably solution, thats the problem, plox still has this totally random "wager win plox crap draw neckbreak" factor, thats just unavoidable :/

To Rocketman- Age required reference me thinks! See you at Worlds??

To the rest of the Community: Less than a month and rotation will happen and then we can move on to another ban this card topic... open those binders and try things that you haven't.. who knows, it just might work!

The cards that peole cry about are those that make the game random and draw reliable. I just love using big decks with big setups, varios techs etc (LBS / MSN Player :D ) because they fight all out instead of hoping to disrupot your opponent because this is always unreliable. What if your opponent really has those widnstorms every time you lay down a Cessation Crystal ? You lose...
Plox is just the worst version of this randomness, once you're ploxed you HAVE to rely on topdecking because its youre only resource that still works. And having to rely on sheer luck because your opponent forces you is just annoying and frustrating.

And IMo plox will be around much longer than anyone would want it to, dusknoir will be the new nightmare next season, and sableye IFDS is just stupid.
T1 Wager, if your opponent draws dead he can't do anything while you continue using sableye to get going. Fun, really ... :nonono:

Why can't they just give us the optional muligan that warcraft has :nonono:


SotG!

Fish




e:/ The Guy above me is a perfect example of what i'm talking. A smart Plox player eats Scizor Alive, Its just to easy to get around.
And using Empoleon / Maguis / Quagsire without anything like claydol to give you new cards ? Good luck on using that one reliable...
Gallade will still hurt you a lot, Pachirisu also will have its fun with you. And besides you will ebat nothing else with that deck :/
 
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Disable FTW!

When I won my medal, Blissey + Sableye was the play and I beat 3 GG decks with it. There are things to counter GG it just takes a bit of initiative! I switched to BlissCatty in Houston and beat 2 GG decks to come in 2nd. It is the Player and the testing put into the counter that has the REAL chance.. *see Jimmy Ballard and others like him!

Disable irritated the GG player to a point of forcing them to Have to use Gallade and most of the time they had to flip at least one prize giving me an advantage with FF attached to Blissey Tanks! and then continuing to Disable Pstchic Lock to stack 10 at a time!

What beats GG, a great player! If GG was that truly strong, T16 at Nats would have been all Garde based on the sheer numbers of versions being played!

People also tend to forget Mismagius as a counter right along with Amnesia and Disable style attacks!

Don't fear the card, embrace it and be thankful for the Game we have to complain over such a small factor in everyday lives!

POP/PUI maintains a healthy environment and relies on its players to strengthen the knowledge of the game and the Spirit of it!

Fish

I feel that this topic has spiraled into too much of a discussion of "this beats gg!" as opposed to why to ban/not ban it. Be that as it may, I'd like to dissect these counters.

RE Disable and Amnesia-type effects: I agree that these put a GG player in the occasional bind, but there are so many ways to play around it, it's absurd. In literally every list, you have Gardevoir Level X for Teleportation, and in many others, you have Warp Point, WP, or even Unown Q to alleviate retreat.

RE Mismagius: This can also be played around with smart energy attachments...Sometimes, the KO's are even to your advantage. Can it turn the game? Yes. Is it a true solution? Ehhh...Not really.

To end my diversion on this, I think the "good playing" argument always goes both ways: it's what beats GG, but it's often the reason why counters lose. Flawless GG playing is frightening for counter decks.


Anyways...Yeah, consider my proposition guys. Making the world's best play a brand new format is a perfect way to demand creativity and cleverness from a world champion - not encouraging the field run the same old stuff.
 
I feel that this topic has spiraled into too much of a discussion of "this beats gg!" as opposed to why to ban/not ban it. Be that as it may, I'd like to dissect these counters.

RE Disable and Amnesia-type effects: I agree that these put a GG player in the occasional bind, but there are so many ways to play around it, it's absurd. In literally every list, you have Gardevoir Level X for Teleportation, and in many others, you have Warp Point, WP, or even Unown Q to alleviate retreat.

RE Mismagius: This can also be played around with smart energy attachments...Sometimes, the KO's are even to your advantage. Can it turn the game? Yes. Is it a true solution? Ehhh...Not really.

To end my diversion on this, I think the "good playing" argument always goes both ways: it's what beats GG, but it's often the reason why counters lose. Flawless GG playing is frightening for counter decks.


Anyways...Yeah, consider my proposition guys. Making the world's best play a brand new format is a perfect way to demand creativity and cleverness from a world champion - not encouraging the field run the same old stuff.

Johnny, I will offer you this, my suggestions were exactly that, suggestions. Suggestions as to why it would be a wrong course to ban a card that has some weaknesses to others and that can be defeated by skilled players.

I appreciate your attempt to discredit those suggestions as you oft do in your own way. As mentioned above to some of your comments, causing your opponent to use resources early in the game can create issues midgame and late game. It isn't the act of playing around it, but the required correct move to produce a favorable situation that can in a result force a card played that may be needed at an untimely part of the game.

No card should be banned as I stated indirectly above within the context of my suggestions. This only allows for more lack of creativity and also truly deminishes the SotG. Plox is just like any other deck, it is beatable. Albeit more difficult to beat, it is beatable.

IMHO, this thread should probably be locked as it really promotes decension in the ranks and can produce a why doesnt POP/PUI listen to the players mindset.

Fish
 
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Scizor and Altaria did great for me against Plox. Winning over 75 percent of my games that I faced it. Also Banette did Awesome for it's 10 seconds of fame. I wish Bruggy and I had the money to go to grinders if all you can say is if you can't beat it run it. You need to keep trying. This game does have a time limit if your deck is faster you will beat it.
 
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