One Side of the AZ States issue(now with both sides post 117)

[The Ralts]

Patricia is not some kind of seer.

Last year at US Nats, when the player-limit-cap was exceeded, POP adjusted. There were many top-notch staff there to help alleviate the disruption. If that adjustment had NOT gone as smooth as it did, I'm sure we'd have a different view of how well US Nats was run last year.

Patricia will take her "lumps" for this judgement call. Other PTOs might have done something differently, but that doesn't make it right or wrong, just debate-able.

Nats had a set cap for players, but Origins messed up. POP had the right to turn away players if they felt they could not accomodate them. They happened to be able to figure out how to fit everybody, and everyone was happy. If they did decide to not let those players in, they would have been able to. It would have been the right descision (if not a very happy one) as they couldn't find the space/whatever to fit the extra players.

I don't believe a PTO should have the right to do the same thing for players 2 minutes late.
IMO in a game like this, turning away players without a valid excuse is a wrong. =\

From what I've read, she is a very good PTO. People probably should defend her, but they shouldn't defend what she did. Accept that it was a bad judgement call.

 

[SteveP]

I'm so glad Ice'Cold reminded us about DaveS's post:

"...but will lose the ability to be flexible, even if flexibility seems appropriate."

It's scary to think that "appropriateness" might become the real loser here.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Nats had a set cap for players, but Origins messed up. POP had the right to turn away players if they felt they could not accomodate them. They happened to be able to figure out how to fit everybody, and everyone was happy. If they did decide to not let those players in, they would have been able to. It would have been the right descision (if not a very happy one) as they couldn't find the space/whatever to fit the extra players.

Yes, POP made the right decision, because the situation warranted it.

Even Patricia said in her post that she probably wouldn't have denied entrance to Ken and Co. had she known about the medical issue.

Nevertheless, late arrivals "can" cause problems. Do you accomodate the "few" and let the "many" suffer in those situations? It's a catch-22 judgement call.

 

[BLiZzArD]

For the record Steve the history "issue" Patricia had with the late player was that he won the event. Can anyone explain to me how that is a disruption the the integrity of the event.

BLiZz

 

[Tyerva]

I might add from my previous post,
that
There was no room for the late players,
Unless we were to kick out other customers that were already there.
For we did get over 40 more players then expected.

I still believe, having read both side of the stories, and being there.
That Trish had full right to do what she done, to stay next to the rules.

That's just what I think, and I'm hoping we don't have the same problem (With others) for our States this weekend.

 

[ryanvergel]

What about the justice for these players who had to spend X money, waste X time, and drive X miles just to NOT PLAY? In political situations, if you make a huge wrong that cannot be fixed, you usually get removed from the position.

There is nothing that can make up to these players. Their ratings, their time and money were all wasted. And for what? To make a "point" or something?

I guess the sacrifice of nearly ten people's times, money, and resources to make a point is justified? Not.

A really poor decision was made, and these players were greatly and negatively affected by it. How do we give these players justice? That is the only question we should be asking now.

 

[SteveP]

For the record Steve the history "issue" Patricia had with the late player was that he won the event. Can anyone explain to me how that is a disruption the the integrity of the event.

BLiZz

I'd have to play with the math, but at first glance, a first-round-late-arrival loss is harder to recover from than a first-round-played-match loss (because event tardiness is the first tiebreaker). If that player really wanted to "game" the system smartly, they'd concede/throw the first round match rather than show up late.

So opp-win percentages don't even come into play for tardy players.

Now, regarding how it affects pairings, I'd hope TOM is fixed and does it correctly (based purely on records-first-random-second); otherwise, the issue here is with TOM, not the player.

So yeah Ken, I don't understand that issue -- if indeed, that's Patricia's rationale.

 

[BLiZzArD]

I might add from my previous post,
that
There was no room for the late players,
Unless we were to kick out other customers that were already there.
For we did get over 40 more players then expected.

I still believe, having read both side of the stories, and being there.
That Trish had full right to do what she done, to stay next to the rules.

That's just what I think, and I'm hoping we don't have the same problem (With others) for our States this weekend.

Your wrong the capacity for that store is way higher than 100 which was the reason it was chosen the event was scheduled well in advance and I know the owner well enough to know he made room for it.


BLiZz

 

[Tyerva]

Your wrong the capacity for that store is way higher than 100 which was the reason it was chosen the event was scheduled well in advance and I know the owner well enough to know he made room for it.


BLiZz

Not quite,
Sure the capacity is 100
But the other customers were using the other tables in the back.
Where we were using the tables in the front, we had to add chairs to those tables, and most of us were really squished in.
I was there; and my friend was a judge. I know what went on.

 

[PokeDaddy]

An allegory:

A woman was gossiping with her friend about a man whom they hardly knew - I know none of you have ever done this.

The next day she went to confession. She got the old parish priest, Father O' Rourke, and she told him the whole thing. 'Is gossiping a sin?' she asked the old man. 'Father, have I done something wrong?' 'Yes,' Father O' Rourke answered her. 'Yes, You have blamed false witness on your neighbor.'

So, the woman said she was sorry, and asked for forgiveness.

'Not so fast,' says O' Rourke. 'I want you to go home, take a pillow upon your roof, cut it open with a knife, and return here to me.'

So, the woman went home: took a pillow off her bed, a knife from the drawer, went up the fire escape to her roof, and stabbed the pillow. Then she went back to the old parish priest as instructed.

'Did you cut the pillow with a knife?' he says. 'Yes, Father.' 'And what were the results?' 'Feathers,' she said. 'Feathers?' he repeated. 'Feathers; everywhere, Father.'

'Now I want you to go back and gather up every last feather that flew out onto the wind,' 'Well,' she said, 'it can't be done. I don't know where they went. The wind took them all over.'

'And that,' said Father O' Rourke, 'is gossip!'​

From the Movie "Doubt"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is so much more to this story. The OP never should been made.

Blizz, I am not calling you out. I haven't seen anyone in these pages ask you some hard questions. These questions are rhetorical and do not require answering. I ask them for you to ponder.

• What are you trying to accomplish with this post?
• What sense does this make to air this publicly?
• Why not work with the people (the PTO) whom you have known for a long time - in private?
• What was your motive?
• Has anything gotten better from this?
• What other way could have this been handled?

All. Just stop slamming Trish and /or Blizz. BOTH the folks are good people. Stuff happens. It will get resolved.

If this much energy went into something like feeding the hungry, we'd all be better off for it.

 

[BLiZzArD]

Not quite,
Sure the capacity is 100
But the other customers were using the other tables in the back.
Where we were using the tables in the front, we had to add chairs to those tables, and most of us were really squished in.
I was there; and my friend was a judge. I know what went on.

Then the tables set up outside and the other side of the store could not have been utilized then? I was also there and know there was room. Please remember my wife was the head Judge before all of this happened.


BLiZz

 

[Tyerva]

Then the tables set up outside and the other side of the store could not have been utilized then? I was also there and know there was room.

BLiZz

You can't host a tournament outside, I'm sorry to say.
I've read the rules numerous times.
And my friend has as well.
As for the other room, then we'd have to move a couple judges to the other room, while we were already down a judge. =/

 

[BLiZzArD]

You can't host a tournament outside, I'm sorry to say.
I've read the rules numerous times.
And my friend has as well.
As for the other room, then we'd have to move a couple judges to the other room, while we were already down a judge. =/

the other customer could have been moved is my point and you wouldn't have been down a judge.

BLiZz

There is so much more to this story. The OP never should been made.
What else is there to this story people keep saying this and yet no one will tell me what else there is
Blizz, I am not calling you out. I haven't seen anyone in these pages ask you some hard questions. These questions are rhetorical and do not require answering. I ask them for you to ponder.

Please notice I posted this almost 2 full days after the event I gave myself time to cool down and speak with Trish

• What are you trying to accomplish with this post? To find out why my PTO was allowed to exclude me and mine from the event
• What sense does this make to air this publicly?I didn't make this public it was already out on the gym in a post by evil_umbreon
• Why not work with the people (the PTO) whom you have known for a long time - in private?I contacted her on the phone and we spoke for a long period of time it never got resolved
• What was your motive? to never let this happen to anyone ever again
• Has anything gotten better from this?PUI will review this and a better plan will be put into place
• What other way could have this been handled?none that I can think of I tried contacting PUI during the event no response I tried talking the the PTO what else could I have done?

All. Just stop slamming Trish and /or Blizz. BOTH the folks are good people. Stuff happens. It will get resolved.

If this much energy went into something like feeding the hungry, we'd all be better off for it.No doubt

 

[Tyerva]

the other customer could have been moved is my point and you wouldn't have been down a judge.

BLiZz

It's rude to move people if they were there first.
If you're wife is a head judge; then you should know the rules.
You're making a huge deal out of it,
Its' past, just get over it.
Trish had every right.
I'm sticking by her, not because I know her, but because she was justified in her ruling.

 

[SteveP]

Good analogy PokeDaddy, somewhat. Gossip is something that goes on behind another person's back. This is public. The facts are pretty clear.

- Ken and Co. were late, barely.
- There was a valid reason, partly.
- The medical reason wasn't clear to the PTO at first.
- Late arrivals caused problems in the past.
- The PTO enforced the full-extent of the OP guide.
- Players were hurt.

Some might be flaming here, but I don't think that's Ken's fault. He's looking for understanding, resolution, maybe empathy too; something he's obviously not found yet from the PTO. Nothing against Patricia, nor Ken either. I think this has been a good debate. Even DaveS has taken notice.

 

[Jaeger]

It's rude to move people if they were there first.
If you're wife is a head judge; then you should know the rules.
You're making a huge deal out of it,
Its' past, just get over it.
Trish had every right.
I'm sticking by her, not because I know her, but because she was justified in her ruling.

How would you feel if you drove 5 hours and spent probably 20+ dollars per person to be turned down for being 3 mins late.

 

[SD PokeMom]

take it to the 'gym, rather than directly to PUI via phone or email afterwards? THAT'S going to 'get things resolved'?

wow...

'mom

 

[Jaeger]

Some might be flaming here, but I don't think that's Ken's fault. He's looking for understanding, maybe empathy too; something he's obviously not found yet from the PTO. Nothing against Patricia, nor Ken either. I think this has been a good debate. Even DaveS has taken notice.

+1, Hopefully this will lead to more clear cut policy from POP.

 

[ryanvergel]

It's rude to move people if they were there first.
If you're wife is a head judge; then you should know the rules.
You're making a huge deal out of it,
Its' past, just get over it.
Trish had every right.
I'm sticking by her, not because I know her, but because she was justified in her ruling.

Get over it? Get over yourself. If it doesn't bother you, it's because you can't empathize with an entire group of people having their entire weekend ruined, having spent wasted money and time, and not getting a chance for rating points, hurting their status and partially nullifying efforts at CCs and BRs.

Trish had a right, and she misused that right, and something needs to be done about it.

 

[PokeDaddy]

Let it be Ken.

Can't you see that in my first post I was trying to give this thread a way to die out?

Since all your objectives have been met. Please stop flaming the fire. Please.

 

[BLiZzArD]

It's rude to move people if they were there first.
If you're wife is a head judge; then you should know the rules.
You're making a huge deal out of it,
Its' past, just get over it.
Trish had every right.
I'm sticking by her, not because I know her, but because she was justified in her ruling.

No one is denying she had the right and you might want to read my signature My wife isn't the only HJ in the family. In all honesty this isn't a side issue it's the fact that a ruling was made and I would really like to know the justification on it. Yes I am making a huge deal because it is one my friends and I can never play in the 2009 Arizona States tournament .

BLiZz

take it to the 'gym, rather than directly to PUI via phone or email afterwards? THAT'S going to 'get things resolved'?

wow...

'mom

I emailed PUI and spoke with her on the phone what is so wrong with bringing this to the community it was a public event I was publicly told we couldn't play in I tried private channels and nothing came from it I understand that PUI has to back the ruling but the point of the post is to try to get the rule changed.