Porii Sames
Active Member
Probably would've tried to convert him, if He could find him.
Osama Binladin
- Thread starter Xuii2-the-cleric
- Start date
Porii Sames
Active Member
^Last I checked, he was.
Besides, even if he wasn't envolved with 9/11, he's already killed so many people that he'd most likely get a death sentence if he WAS captured alive and not responsible for 9/11.
Besides, even if he wasn't envolved with 9/11, he's already killed so many people that he'd most likely get a death sentence if he WAS captured alive and not responsible for 9/11.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
Agreed. It's especially disturbing that a lot of the celebrations (on both ends) are coming from youth...It's the young people with the most life left in them who are celebrating death. And that's not a good sign for the future.
Keep in mind that I'm really optimistic about our future in general...Just not in this instance. lol.
P.S. Also, anybody notice how REALLY responsible the media has been about this? During virtually every interviewer with a crazy "YAYYY HE'S DEAD!!!" party-goer, interviewers on all three major cable news channels (Fox News, CNN, MSNBC) were very quick to switch the subject to "this is also a day for remembrance," and so on. Really classy display, IMO.
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So where are you from?
seriously: be thankful he's gone, say a prayer (if that's your thing) for, or remember those lost...but celebrations in the streets like one's team just won the super bowl? THAT'S the image we want broadcast to the rest of the world?
jmho
'mom
Azure Kite
New Member
As Wikipedia puts it, Bin laden was a founder of Al-Quaeda, which is largely believed to be behind the 9/11 attacks. (and as we all know, Wikipedia never lies)
Sounds to me like a good reason to celebrate. Sure, he's not the only terrorist. No, he's probably not much use to our current enemy, and is therefore not a current threat. But if for no other reason, justice has been served to one of the individuals most involved with one of the greatest terrorist acts in American history. (if not THE greatest attack) Peace of mind to the families of victims, that's what I'd call this event.
We're missing the big picture though: This is how America 1-ups the royal wedding.
USA! USA! USA!
vaporeon
Moderator
America sadly :nonono:
PokeMedic
New Member
Well, that certainly sounds pretentious enough to be American, that's for sure
The youth had to grow up in this world where we have the Patriot Act and warrentless wiretappings. Where kids are subjected to pat-downs. Where they need 2 forms of ID to do any thing or go anywhere. The fact that they can see and celebrate a victory over what has caused all of us to live this way is a good thing. It means that they haven't been brought up into this world thinking all of that was normal.
Remember, this was Osama Bin Laden. OSAMA BIN LADEN.
DarthPika
New Member
People are stupid. Need I say more? Sadly, it always seems to be the stupid ones that everyone sees, and the public/global opinion of the rest of us is based on. :/
Dr. Mason
New Member
Morality is not a simple black and white. No person, and certainly no country, is going to go on with their lives wholly unstained. Bin Laden committed atrocious crimes, and admitted to committing them, and was encouraging and planning more. Trading one life and for hundreds of other should not be taken as a moral high ground, but a necessity of living. His life was no more special or worthy than any other man, woman, or animal(even a plant). The cycle of nature requires and compels us to take and give life in order to continue onward. The same way we killed buffalo for their meat and hide, the same way we harvest crops, the way a mother bear defends her cubs from a hunter, and the way we killed Osama Bin Laden. Was it a good, moral thing? Maybe, maybe not. But it was a necessity of protection.
Jail is for social criminals. Men who can be reasoned with, who can be changed. A way to give them a second chance. And though it doesn't always work, we try. We try to make these people able to fit in with the rest of the society. But there are other men who make this an impossibility. People who are too dangerous to be free. And that treatment is equal. If you're going to knock on this operation, I'd like to see you defending the rest of your position as well, and not pretend that a man's existence is more worthwhile than anything else's.
Repeating myself here: Moral dilemmas are complicated and heated debates, with viewpoints unique to every individual. The only way we can proceed is through reason, which is much more universal. Feeling is the way we make sense of the world, and nothing more, and should have bearing only on our personal, self-affecting decisions. Your feelings, your sense of morality, should not be used as an expectation for the rest of the world. But this was, at large, the nation's choice. Not yours.
There's been something made of people celebrating in the streets. So what? Some people were afraid of this man. It is less the fact that a man is dead, and more that certain citizens feel freer and safer , that gives them cause to celebrate. It's a victory, it's a celebration, and no one is forcing you to enjoy it with them. Draw your own conclusions, and quit judging others.
Jail is for social criminals. Men who can be reasoned with, who can be changed. A way to give them a second chance. And though it doesn't always work, we try. We try to make these people able to fit in with the rest of the society. But there are other men who make this an impossibility. People who are too dangerous to be free. And that treatment is equal. If you're going to knock on this operation, I'd like to see you defending the rest of your position as well, and not pretend that a man's existence is more worthwhile than anything else's.
Repeating myself here: Moral dilemmas are complicated and heated debates, with viewpoints unique to every individual. The only way we can proceed is through reason, which is much more universal. Feeling is the way we make sense of the world, and nothing more, and should have bearing only on our personal, self-affecting decisions. Your feelings, your sense of morality, should not be used as an expectation for the rest of the world. But this was, at large, the nation's choice. Not yours.
There's been something made of people celebrating in the streets. So what? Some people were afraid of this man. It is less the fact that a man is dead, and more that certain citizens feel freer and safer , that gives them cause to celebrate. It's a victory, it's a celebration, and no one is forcing you to enjoy it with them. Draw your own conclusions, and quit judging others.
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The country you were born in?
vaporeon
Moderator
Porii Sames
Active Member
Vaporeon, have you ever lost a family member? Friend? ANYONE?
Xuii2-the-cleric
New Member
Osama was shooting at our Americans OUR family and friends I have alot of family and friends over seas fighting for us I am not a fan of the war that much but they attacked us what if we didnt go to war would we still be the same or would we have more atacks on us we havnt had many attacks since because they know if you punch the US in the arm they will hit you twice as hard in the face
all you have to remember is
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
all you have to remember is
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
Sorry if im reading it wrongbut.it sounfs like to me that a lot of u (especially vaporeon) are saying... You stupid americans are stupid for celebrating someones death... But this is one of the biggest mass murders and america number one enemy. Just feel for the people wholost a child or mother. If someone killed my loved one I would hunt them down and take care of them.also this a victory for america.compare it to winning worls. In pokemon u defeat ur opponent for the win and celebrate. Well america just defeated her enemy and is celebrating imo. Just think about it. nuff said
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
Bin Laden was a coward who hid behind a belief that he can enforce "punishment" on those who defy his God. One's beliefs and faith and their actions by "assiting" in doing God's work is saying that God needs help to get things done God's way. Only God has the right to pass judgment, and God does not need help in this matter, as God is the only one to place judgment on man and hand out punishment.Why did he hide for so long? Did his God come to the rescue of his worker who helped "punish" sinners?
I think he hid because he is not a true servent of doing the work of God and used God as an excuse to commit murder in his hatred towards others who want to live free and not to be ruled by tyrants.
I do not think his God was all so proud of hie "works", because God does not encourage man to kill but God encourages that we are civilized. Reasoning and understanding to settle our differences in beliefs and lifestyle with acceptance.
Bin Laden basically "throw a rock" and ran- if he was so faithful and true to his God in "doing the work of God", he would have not only "thrown a rock" but would have taken the Hitler approach ( and even in the end, Hitler offed himself) and stood strong in his force and have true faith in what he is doing is approved by his God and if that is the true will of God, he would have been more successfull in his mission with the help of God.
Sure- take what I have said and take it to your own understanding of what I am saying.
I am by far applauding Bin Laden nor do or did ever support his "Godly mission", to me he is a sick twisted freak who had too much hate for freedom and took the "My God's way or the sword" aproach to satisfy his hatred.
His time of striking fear into people with threats and actions of murder and using God as a reason to justify his rampage is OVER. And that is some reason to cellibrate. But this does not mean that terrorism is gone, it means one less person who can pray on the fears of others and exploit that weakness to control them or to "pass judgment" onto them.
It does not matter to me what country brought down this psycho, as we are not the only country that was sickend by his actions. The whole world wanted him gone, and some form of justice ensured upon him to hold him accountable for his crimes agianst humanity. Even though the God I believe in says to not pass judgement, God does allow man to rule as we please and the laws we make are for the better in trying to be moral and civilized.
He is dead, his threats are gone, and let's hope that no one follows in his footsteps. I am glad for those who think that his death is a form of satisfaction in the "eye for an eye" belief, as they can have peace of mind that the person who inflicted pain, hurt, suffering, or the loss of a loved one- for it is sad that those people have had no satisfactory result in resolving this horrible man's crimes.
I have said what I have said, and again take my words to your own understanding. If you feel I should better explain what I mean, ask me.
My two cents is all, and my personal viewpoint on all of this.
I think he hid because he is not a true servent of doing the work of God and used God as an excuse to commit murder in his hatred towards others who want to live free and not to be ruled by tyrants.
I do not think his God was all so proud of hie "works", because God does not encourage man to kill but God encourages that we are civilized. Reasoning and understanding to settle our differences in beliefs and lifestyle with acceptance.
Bin Laden basically "throw a rock" and ran- if he was so faithful and true to his God in "doing the work of God", he would have not only "thrown a rock" but would have taken the Hitler approach ( and even in the end, Hitler offed himself) and stood strong in his force and have true faith in what he is doing is approved by his God and if that is the true will of God, he would have been more successfull in his mission with the help of God.
Sure- take what I have said and take it to your own understanding of what I am saying.
I am by far applauding Bin Laden nor do or did ever support his "Godly mission", to me he is a sick twisted freak who had too much hate for freedom and took the "My God's way or the sword" aproach to satisfy his hatred.
His time of striking fear into people with threats and actions of murder and using God as a reason to justify his rampage is OVER. And that is some reason to cellibrate. But this does not mean that terrorism is gone, it means one less person who can pray on the fears of others and exploit that weakness to control them or to "pass judgment" onto them.
It does not matter to me what country brought down this psycho, as we are not the only country that was sickend by his actions. The whole world wanted him gone, and some form of justice ensured upon him to hold him accountable for his crimes agianst humanity. Even though the God I believe in says to not pass judgement, God does allow man to rule as we please and the laws we make are for the better in trying to be moral and civilized.
He is dead, his threats are gone, and let's hope that no one follows in his footsteps. I am glad for those who think that his death is a form of satisfaction in the "eye for an eye" belief, as they can have peace of mind that the person who inflicted pain, hurt, suffering, or the loss of a loved one- for it is sad that those people have had no satisfactory result in resolving this horrible man's crimes.
I have said what I have said, and again take my words to your own understanding. If you feel I should better explain what I mean, ask me.
My two cents is all, and my personal viewpoint on all of this.
U u u... I'm not even gonna say it... Ur not proud to live in the freest safest strongest country in the world that is crazy. Move to uganda in africa and then u will see how proud ur to live in america. U dont even know how lucky ur:nonono:
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Why Uganda?
I mean, being better than Uganda isn't much to boast about. Why not tell him to go and live in Iceland, or New Zealand, or Holland?
I mean, being better than Uganda isn't much to boast about. Why not tell him to go and live in Iceland, or New Zealand, or Holland?
Chairman Kaga
Active Member
I posted a truncated version of this on Facebook earlier:
This is a meaningless Pyrrhic victory in the "war on terror", but it certainly looks great for a re-election campaign.
In truth, the war on terror ended before it ever started, and Osama Bin Laden won. He won the day we decided to crush our own liberties in the name of safety. That has always been the goal of terrorism, and America's ruling class quickly acceded to his demands. The towers fell on 9/11, and shortly after came America's spirit of freedom, the spirit on which this country was founded -- replaced by the Patriot Act, FISA, the TSA, and any other number of police state powers. Our founding fathers would weep for us, seeing that their Grand Experiment has ultimately failed.
Killing the figurehead of Bin Laden means nothing. You can't kill an insane ideology -- Osama may be dead in person but he certainly lives on in spirit. His death is a minor reprieve until the next madman surfaces from his wake.
Our true gain from his death is minimal. Our loss in the process has been incalculable. Those scales will never be even, even if we kill a million of Osama's successors.
I'm sure Osama was laughing at us to the very end, and rightfully so. We played his game more perfectly than he could ever have hoped. He brought down America with a single decisive strike. The country is still here, but her spirit lies with the ashes and wreckage of those towers.
Well played, sir. Well played.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- George Washington
"The point of terrorism is to cause terror, sometimes to further a political goal and sometimes out of sheer hatred. The people terrorists kill are not the targets; they are collateral damage. And blowing up planes, trains, markets or buses is not the goal; those are just tactics. The real targets of terrorism are the rest of us: the billions of us who are not killed but are terrorized because of the killing. The real point of terrorism is not the act itself, but our reaction to the act. And we're doing exactly what the terrorists want." -- Bruce Schneier
This is a meaningless Pyrrhic victory in the "war on terror", but it certainly looks great for a re-election campaign.
In truth, the war on terror ended before it ever started, and Osama Bin Laden won. He won the day we decided to crush our own liberties in the name of safety. That has always been the goal of terrorism, and America's ruling class quickly acceded to his demands. The towers fell on 9/11, and shortly after came America's spirit of freedom, the spirit on which this country was founded -- replaced by the Patriot Act, FISA, the TSA, and any other number of police state powers. Our founding fathers would weep for us, seeing that their Grand Experiment has ultimately failed.
Killing the figurehead of Bin Laden means nothing. You can't kill an insane ideology -- Osama may be dead in person but he certainly lives on in spirit. His death is a minor reprieve until the next madman surfaces from his wake.
Our true gain from his death is minimal. Our loss in the process has been incalculable. Those scales will never be even, even if we kill a million of Osama's successors.
I'm sure Osama was laughing at us to the very end, and rightfully so. We played his game more perfectly than he could ever have hoped. He brought down America with a single decisive strike. The country is still here, but her spirit lies with the ashes and wreckage of those towers.
Well played, sir. Well played.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- George Washington
"The point of terrorism is to cause terror, sometimes to further a political goal and sometimes out of sheer hatred. The people terrorists kill are not the targets; they are collateral damage. And blowing up planes, trains, markets or buses is not the goal; those are just tactics. The real targets of terrorism are the rest of us: the billions of us who are not killed but are terrorized because of the killing. The real point of terrorism is not the act itself, but our reaction to the act. And we're doing exactly what the terrorists want." -- Bruce Schneier