Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Petition to have more than 1 Vendor at Nationals

psychup: I can't disagree with you at all....that being said I don't think there is anyway your going to convince me having more vendors is a bad thing.

Oh, I don't think it's a bad thing for the customers at all. From the customer's perspective, more vendors increases the competition and would theoretically lower the price.

I just don't think it's going to happen given the economic constraints (high entry cost into the market, insufficient demand, etc.), and I'm explaining why that might be.
 
Or you could just not leave your stuff laying around. I know that my saying that is starting to slip into the lovely blame-the-victim area, but that doesn't change that if you don't leave your stuff sitting around, it can't get stolen.
 
yup.

You came with your stuff. As long as you hold on to your stuff, it remains your stuff. Other people may want your stuff, and if you leave your stuff unattended, your stuff becomes their stuff.

This is not to say to put blame solely on the one who lost their stuff, however you need to be a bit active in not leaving your stuff out for a moment. I have never had a problem with my stuff at a huge event, in fact I remember one year one of my Jirachi plushies decided to jump from my pocket. Luckily someone knew it was mine and found it on the floor and returned it to me.

For the argument of video cameras, that is NOT Pokemon's duty, rather it would be the Indianapolis Convention Center's duty.

Perhaps the best way to do this would be to have the vendors record the basic information from a sell (ID information, amount paid) into their ledgers (I would hope they do this to be able to see if they turned a profit cash wise and not product wise)
 
For the argument of video cameras, that is NOT Pokemon's duty, rather it would be the Indianapolis Convention Center's duty.

I recently saw a neighbor's young kid drop his ice cream cone in the street, so I *gasp* spent my own money and bought him another one from the store. That was NOT my duty.

A couple months ago, I went out drinking with a friend. He has just broken up with his long time girlfriend, and was in a tough spot, so I *gasp* spent my own money and footed the tab for the night. That was NOT my duty.

A local card shop where I used to go play Pokemon offered to house some girl scouts during their cookie sale. Because it was a rainy day, they didn't really sell any cookies, and one of the girls was really upset. The store owner *gasp* spent his own money and bought a lot of boxes of cookies from the girl, making her day.

Every year, there are factual stories of Pokemon players' deck (or even entire collections) getting stolen at Nationals. In an effort to prevent this from happening, the Pokemon Company coordinates with the Indianapolis Convention Center and *gasp* spends some money to get some cameras and better security at the event. That's certainly NOT TPCi's duty.

And of course, people shouldn't do things because it's not their duty, right? :frown:
 
No i am not taking the side of thief's but those who leave their things laying need to take some responsibility for it too. DO NOT leave anything unattended even for a few seconds. No that doesn't give someone a right to take your things but you give them the opportunity to do it.
 
I agree Evil Psyduck but people getting there stuff stolen isn't good for P!P either. Looking into way to prevent this should be a concern for P!P in my opinion.
 
There has been only one vendor in the past, and general consensus was that it was a disaster (St. Louis).

It was horrible. I wanted to buy one World championship deck (I bought 3 of them before but they all dissapreaed from my area before i could purchase the 4th) I tried to buy it in St Louis at Natoinals but was told they were wonly being sold in blocks of 16 (4 of each deck) That was insane.
 
The sad thing is I think everybody is saying the same thing. We all want more vendors and more competition but due to regulations and costs it's just not plausible :(
 
In regards to theft of Pokemon cards, I would never blame the victim but the victim should know better. We live in a society where people search for an opportunity for an immediate monetary gain. You leaving your binder on the table for a minute is that prime opportunity that thieves wait for.

However, we must also take into account that little kids are involved in this game and we can't really expect them to know better. They are just starting out in life and you'd expect Pokemon to be one of the safest environments to bring a child up in. As a result, it should be P!P responsibility to ensure that a certain level of security is met that people will at least have an opportunity of finding the thief.

I would hate this game to turn into Yugioh where there is mass theft at every single tournament, be it your local league or Worlds.
 
In regards to theft of Pokemon cards, I would never blame the victim but the victim should know better. We live in a society where people search for an opportunity for an immediate monetary gain. You leaving your binder on the table for a minute is that prime opportunity that thieves wait for.

However, we must also take into account that little kids are involved in this game and we can't really expect them to know better. They are just starting out in life and you'd expect Pokemon to be one of the safest environments to bring a child up in. As a result, it should be P!P responsibility to ensure that a certain level of security is met that people will at least have an opportunity of finding the thief.

I would hate this game to turn into Yugioh where there is mass theft at every single tournament, be it your local league or Worlds.

Then if the kids are young enough not to know better then those responsible for those kids should keep the cards safe. IF i remember right it says somewhere that they are not responsible for anything that is lost or stolen at tournaments.
 
Then if the kids are young enough not to know better then those responsible for those kids should keep the cards safe. IF i remember right it says somewhere that they are not responsible for anything that is lost or stolen at tournaments.

I understand that but then you're essentially molly coddling the children. They need to learn to individuals to a certain extent and looking after your stuff should be no different. You also can't expect parents to be on top of everything 24/7. Cards could easily be stolen mid-game where parents aren't allowed in the vicinity.

I just think that there should be a certain level of security out of courtesy to ensure that children remain in a relatively safe environment for them to play in.
 
Then if the kids are young enough not to know better then those responsible for those kids should keep the cards safe. IF i remember right it says somewhere that they are not responsible for anything that is lost or stolen at tournaments.

Dude, even adults get pickpocketed on the subway or mugged in the street. So municipal governments shouldn't take any action to mitigate high crime rates because the victims should be more diligent?

Yes, kids and their parents should do more to protect their belongings. Even though Pokemon isn't responsible for anything that is lost or stolen, they should still take more preventive actions to ensure the safety of event participants and their property. Something as simple (and cheap) as renting some security cameras should be well within the actions that TPCi can take to prevent theft at their largest event of the year. It's ignorant to think that just because TPCi isn't legally liable for crimes committed during Pokemon events that they shouldn't do more to help prevent it.

You're not responsible for holding the door open for the person behind you. That means you shouldn't do it, right?

You're not responsible for helping someone at a Pokemon tournament pick up a coin that he/she dropped on the floor. That means you shouldn't do it, right?

You're not responsible for helping split the tab at your friend's birthday party. That means you shouldn't do it, right?​

Give me a break, evil psyduck.
 
Dude, even adults get pickpocketed on the subway or mugged in the street. So municipal governments shouldn't take any action to mitigate high crime rates because the victims should be more diligent?

Yes, kids and their parents should do more to protect their belongings. Even though Pokemon isn't responsible for anything that is lost or stolen, they should still take more preventive actions to ensure the safety of event participants and their property. Something as simple (and cheap) as renting some security cameras should be well within the actions that TPCi can take to prevent theft at their largest event of the year. It's ignorant to think that just because TPCi isn't legally liable for crimes committed during Pokemon events that they shouldn't do more to help prevent it.

You're not responsible for holding the door open for the person behind you. That means you shouldn't do it, right?

You're not responsible for helping someone at a Pokemon tournament pick up a coin that he/she dropped on the floor. That means you shouldn't do it, right?

You're not responsible for helping split the tab at your friend's birthday party. That means you shouldn't do it, right?​

Give me a break, evil psyduck.

Some people just love to ignore what was said, bring up things that have nothing to do with the discussion and put words in other peoples mouth. :mad: :nonono:
 
Some people just love to ignore what was said, bring up things that have nothing to do with the discussion and put words in other peoples mouth. :mad: :nonono:

Some people just don't know how to respond to criticism. :mad: :nonono:

I had responded to your arguments by using examples. Imagine that. Examples.

Let's make this clear for you:

Then if the kids are young enough not to know better then those responsible for those kids should keep the cards safe.

You were using this statement to counter Kashmaster's argument that "it should be P!P responsibility to ensure that a certain level of security is met." You think that the victims of theft (and/or the victim's parents) should be responsible for preventing theft (or "ensuring that a certain level of security is met").

Here's where I respond to your argument:
"Yes, kids and their parents should do more to protect their belongings. Even though Pokemon isn't responsible for anything that is lost or stolen, they should still take more preventive actions to ensure the safety of event participants and their property. Something as simple (and cheap) as renting some security cameras should be well within the actions that TPCi can take to prevent theft at their largest event of the year."


IF i remember right it says somewhere that they are not responsible for anything that is lost or stolen at tournaments.

You bring this up to prove the point that Pokemon is not responsible for anything that is lost or stolen at an event, which is true. I think that this argument, however, is ridiculous, as the fact that Pokemon is not responsible for lost or stolen property does not preclude Pokemon from doing the right/prudent thing and provide some additional security.

I use examples, showing why just because Pokemon isn't responsible for lost and stolen goods, it doesn't mean that Pokemon shouldn't "man up" and take some level of responsibility in both preventing goods from being stolen and recovering the loss of stolen goods.

evil psyduck, next time when faced with an argument, please don't ignore what was said. While a one-sentence deflection may be easier than defending your position, it gives you more credibility it you take the time to make logical arguments.
 
Something as simple (and cheap) as renting some security cameras should be well within the actions that TPCi can take to prevent theft at their largest event of the year.

Why dont you check it out and see how simple and cheap it is.? It's ignorant to think that it is. Also just as ignorant for people to think that others are responsible or should watch their things when they can not or will not do it themselves.

You're not responsible for holding the door open for the person behind you. That means you shouldn't do it, right?

Has nothing to do with the discussion.

You're not responsible for helping someone at a Pokemon tournament pick up a coin that he/she dropped on the floor. That means you shouldn't do it, right?

Has nothing to do with the discussion.

You're not responsible for helping split the tab at your friend's birthday party. That means you shouldn't do it, right?​

Has nothing to do with the discussion.

You bring this up to prove the point that Pokemon is not responsible for anything that is lost or stolen at an event, which is true. I think that this argument, however, is ridiculous, as the fact that Pokemon is not responsible for lost or stolen property does not preclude Pokemon from doing the right/prudent thing and provide some additional security.

I use examples, showing why just because Pokemon isn't responsible for lost and stolen goods, it doesn't mean that Pokemon shouldn't "man up" and take some level of responsibility in both preventing goods from being stolen and recovering the loss of stolen goods.

Why don't the owners of the stolen items "man up" and take some level of responsibility in both preventing their own goods from being stolen and recovering the loss of their stolen goods? Why? Because it is easier for them to whine about it and blame someone else.

Replies are in red.
 
Why dont you check it out and see how simple and cheap it is.? It's ignorant to think that it is. Also just as ignorant for people to think that others are responsible or should watch their things when they can not or will not do it themselves.

It's actually really cheap to get a security setup, especially for a large company like Pokemon. It's easily doable for a couple thousand. I know this because I actually have expertise in installing security cameras. I was the vice president at my university of the campus nightclub (linked here!), and we threw large parties (~1,000 attendees for the larger events). Obviously, we needed to pay for security, including bouncers as well as cameras.

It's pretty cheap to just go online and buy 2 sets of DVRs with 16 cameras. It's about $400 each on the cheap end, and $800 each on the expensive end. The expensive (wireless) kind would be needed for a large convention center hall. (For example, this set is only $725, and will adequately fulfill the needs of surveillance at Nationals.) They'll need a tech guy to set it up, but I'm going to assume that someone that works for Pokemon has the expertise to do a simple camera setup. If not, I'm sure many players (like me) would volunteer if asked. 32 cameras are plenty for the league play area and waiting areas (which is generally where things get stolen).

A $1,600+ investment in security and safety of event participants for the second-largest video game franchise EVER? Doesn't sound too expensive to me.

I think the big constraint is not necessarily the money, but the perceived difficulty in getting it done. I don't think the people who make decisions for Pokemon actually know how easy it is to set up security cameras.


Has nothing to do with the discussion.

As I mentioned above, I'm giving examples of why just because a party isn't responsible for taking a certain action, it doesn't mean that the party shouldn't take some responsibility.

Although I almost certain you're deflecting because you don't have a good counterargument, I'm going to assume in good faith that you actually believe my examples are not applicable. I'm almost certain that you're old enough (as a forum moderator and all) to understand what a rhetorical device is, but nonetheless, I'll play along.

In good faith, I'm going to make these analogies a little more clear for you:
  • Just as Pokemon is not responsible for anything lost or stolen at a tournament, you're not responsible for holding the door open for the person behind you. That means you shouldn't do it, right?
  • Just as Pokemon is not responsible for anything lost or stolen at a tournament, you're not responsible for helping someone at a Pokemon tournament pick up a coin that he/she dropped on the floor. That means you shouldn't do it, right?
  • Just as Pokemon is not responsible for anything lost or stolen at a tournament, you're not responsible for helping split the tab at your friend's birthday party. That means you shouldn't do it, right?
"Adding security is not Pokemon's responsibility" is a reason why Pokemon isn't adding security, but it is not a reason why Pokemon shouldn't add more security.


Why don't the owners of the stolen items "man up" and take some level of responsibility in both preventing their own goods from being stolen and recovering the loss of their stolen goods? Why? Because it is easier for them to whine about it and blame someone else.

Blaming the victim is almost never the right way to sound intelligent in an argument. The victim may be partly responsible for making his/her property easy to get stolen, but the host of the event also shares responsibility for hosting the event in an environment that makes is conducive for theft to occur. This is called negligence.

I don't want to bore you with examples, but from your previous posts I'm assuming that you're not familiar with this concept. For example, if a person slips and falls in a puddle while shopping at a store, that store can be sued for maintaining a dangerous environment if its shown that employees ignored the puddle on the floor. (This is actually a real case, in which the national chain store settled and paid the medical bills of the victim.)​
Ultimately, liability falls on the victim in cases of petty theft unless a perpetrator can be caught. That Pokemon makes no effort to set up a system which the perpetrator of these thefts might be caught (despite the fact that reports of theft at Nationals happen year after year), demonstrates one of three things:
  1. Pokemon doesn't have the money to add more security to Nationals. (This is probably not true, considering revenue projections that can be found with a simple Google search.)
  2. People who work for Pokemon don't have the foresight to add more security. (I don't like assuming that people are ignorant, so I certainly hope this is not the case.)
  3. Pokemon doesn't think the minor cost <$2000 of installing some cameras in the conference center hall is worth the benefit of deterring a potential thief from stealing a deck from a 8-year old kid. (This is probably the case.)
Additionally, security cameras are a great deterrent to criminal activity, as studies in criminal justice have shown repeatedly (and results confirmed) that people are less likely to commit crimes if they know their actions are being recorded.
 
just 16 cameras would adequately cover the venue space at nationals to provide detailed-enough images to ID a possible thief?

'mom
:confused:
 
just 16 cameras would adequately cover the venue space at nationals to provide detailed-enough images to ID a possible thief?

'mom
:confused:

I suggested 2 sets of 16 cameras, so 32 cameras.

Also, I think that not every area needs to be covered. There's certain places that are well known to be "hotspots" for thieves. For example, the league area is an area were a lot of incidents had happened in the past; this is because in the league area, people have their collections out to trade, and are often distracted by the games they are playing or watching. The high concentration of people in one area makes it also very easy for thieves to strike.

Another area where I'd put some cameras is the waiting area for parents. While parents are watching their kids' stuff, they're also doing other things: writing e-mails, on their iPads, doing a crossword, etc. Additionally, sometimes 1 person is watching 5 or 6 peoples' stuff, so one of the bags can be swiped in a couple seconds without the 1 person noticing.

Here's what installing cameras will do:
  • Serve as a deterrent to crime. While there are stupid criminals, not all criminals are stupid. If they see that there are 2 or 3 cameras pointing in the direction of where they want to commit the crime, many thieves will not risk getting caught to commit a petty theft.
  • Provide a means of recourse for a victim. Sure, thieves won't get caught all of the time, even when there's a camera around. It could be that in a particular case, the camera angles are wrong. However, in some cases of thievery, cameras will be able to capture the crime in action, and allow the criminal to get caught.
  • Make people more vigilant in general. Around the cameras, signs can be posted notifying people that cameras will be in use all weekend. Signs can be used to ask people to be more vigilant about protecting their belongings. Signs can also be used to inform people of the consequences of theft, such as being reported to the police or a ban from organized play.
Why the league area and waiting area, but not the tournament play area? Well, when in the tournament play area, people generally don't have their collections out. They're carrying 1 bag for their deck, damage counters, and maybe a binder; moreover, players actively keep track of their decks in the tournament play area. There's always spectators on the sidelines of the tournament area, so it's much more difficult to take someone else's property without being noticed.

Currently, a thief at Pokemon Nationals knows that as soon as he steals the item and puts it back in his/her hotel room, there's no way to prove that the cards were stolen. Basically, the window to catch a thief is a matter of seconds. With cameras installed, there may still be some thieves that "get away with" their actions, but it's extremely likely that their actions will be caught on camera and the victims to these crimes will have at least a chance of recourse.
 
Evil Psyduck: What kind of Mod refers to another persons posts as Ignorant? If me or any other member would post such things we would have infractions in our PM box faster than I could read them. Your very quick to enforce the rules perhaps you should have the same diligence in following them.
 
Evil Psyduck: What kind of Mod refers to another persons posts as Ignorant? If me or any other member would post such things we would have infractions in our PM box faster than I could read them. Your very quick to enforce the rules perhaps you should have the same diligence in following them.

You should read his posts. If he can't take it he shouldn't dish it out. Read his post in the link below.

http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2259766&postcount=32
 
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