Thanks for the history lesson. But I've been playing competitive tournament Pokemon since it came out. Waaay before Riptide Feraligatr ruled the scene.
This is an honest question so I may better debate this and future topics with you: have you been playing competitively in tournaments since the English or the Japanese release of the game? Has it been continuous, or have you ever taken any breaks?
As it is sometimes viewed as impolite to ask these things without responding in kind, I first began when the very first English Starter Deck came out, I think that was Christmas of '98? However, I only played with friends and some people from school, and even managed to bugger up some very basic rulings/mechanics for my first month or two of playing. I kept playing and toying with my cards until about the time of Gym Heroes. Partially because the fad had died down by then so opponents were hard to come by, partially because someone told me the Gym Sets were a relaunch and incompatible with previous sets. I first heard of League and started attending early in the Spring of '01. I don't care to travel too much for some personal reasons, and lack the time and funds anyway, so I've never gotten to play anything more competitive than the local major OP events. Things like Cities, States, and Gym Challenges. Best I've ever done was to win a City Championship. That's fine: I am the type who tends to choke under pressure, and I really do enjoy helping others when I can.
Eventually I began writing for Pojo's Pokemon Site, and then the Yu-Gi-Oh Site as well. I learn what I can from the more competitive players, though I can't really be considered amongst their ranks, especially now with work keeping me from attending League and tournaments a depressingly high majority of the time. Only within the last week have I begun writing for both games again, with an appropriate warning or two to remind them I am coming at the cards as half-newbie and half-veteran player.
I disagree with this entirely. First off, you dont have to have a great opening hand to beat Kingdra or other quick decks. And you're basically saying that rather than have a "consistent" card drawing trainer in your hand, you'd rather have a single Pokedrawer????
First, let me make sure you are disagreeing with how I meant that statement. No, I am not accusing you of quoting it out of context this time, but rather of misreading it. Why? Because I made an "if, then" statement, not a blatant statement of the actual metagame.
Restating it with slightly different wording:
If the metagame is so fast that you only have two or three turns before you lose/are in a position where losing is inevitable, then I would run four copies of
Poke Drawer+.
Now to restate the why:
I would do this because when the game is so fast that the only reason it isn't being determined first/second turn is because one can't play Trainers, Supporters, or Stadium cards during that first turn, then indeed you have to greatly rely upon luck because a steady, reliable draw/search engine will fail more often. This is
not because the reliable draw/search engine itself fails, but rather it just won't be allowed time to properly work.
Poke Drawer + becomes useful in such a poor metagame because of what realistically happens with it.
Either you
a) Draw two copies and can use the incredibly useful effect
or
b) Draw one copy and use its simple "draw one" effect, which does not harm you as its like the card was never there to begin with except that your deck is thinner and you might theoretically have had a more useful card in its place.
I believe some confusion is because you think I am not running many other useful cards in the deck. Well, I suppose I might be cutting four other search/draw cards. The thing is, when those cards are Supporters... multiple copies do nothing during the same turn. A
Poke Drawer + can be played for some effect on its own. Two copies of a Supporter, be it the exact same Supporter or two different ones, means that this turn one is dead weight unless used for discard fodder or the like.
Based on your statements that Kingdra isn't that fast means what I said earlier was accurate. You know, the comment along the lines of "If the metagame isn't as fast as I've been lead to believe nor as "slow" as it once was, then yeah this card isn't worth it". The whole "Speed 1/2/3" thing?
But these supporters are proven cards. They're in almost all competitive decks as we know it. I guess the statistics are wrong and you're right. (rolls eyes)
Yeah, you lost me here. What statistics? How often Supporters are used in a deck as a broad category? How often certain Supporters are used in a slightly less broad category? Wasn't much of a statistic since it was just saying "almost all" without the numbers to back it up. Nor was I denying they are used. I was denying they could all be used in one turn.
Or was it the earlier comment about the two in 60 cards? Again, not much in the way of "statistics". True facts? Yes, but not much of a statistic. If you tell me things in terms of actual odds or percentiles, and I disregard those... you have your counter-statement ready.
I keep reminding you that you can only use one Supporter a turn, and that they all have their own drawbacks to go with that whole "good draw/search" part of them? Being a Supporter appears to be good for two or three cards of "straight" draw power. I used to believe it was obviously two, since anything that drew more had a draw back:
TV Reporter,
Bill's Maintenance,
Steven's Advice, etc.
Island Hermit,
Buck's Training, and
Team Galactic's Mars all draw two then have one useful effect. We also have some "shuffle and draw" Supporters, but that in and of itself is a risk: sure, you can shuffle in a hand of zero cards, and then it was a no-risk card.
So while it may be splitting hairs, I just don't feel your statements about Supporters accurately reflects the risk involved in using them, or more accurately in using more than one. A great card used in every deck can still carry risk. The more Supporters you run, the more risk you have of dead cards in hand, even if only for a turn.
Now, having said all this, I have been going over what I said, and what many of you say is wrong with what I said and... I agree.
First, when it comes to running two copies of the card, I still am not convinced it is useless. I am no longer certain of how "good" it is. If you're running a specific combo with pieces that aren't easy to search for, and have room for two cards and already run plenty of Supporters, it could be worthwhile. So yes, I was wrong there.
Second, my own take on "low risk", "high risk" etc. hasn't been very clear either, and has probably cost us a lot of time and wasted effort.
dark::colorless20)
