Potential for a bigger, more legitimate game? (Part 2 finally done!)

[JWittz]

Hey everybody, my name's Josh and I've been running a youtube series on the Pokemon TCG for 2 years now. Mostly geared toward helping new players get into the competitive scene, it's usually a goofy and lighthearted show intended for everybody to get a little bit out of it.

However, this weekend I decided to try something a little bit different and tackle a question that plenty of us have juggled before: what separates us from getting our game the same high respect that other TCGs are getting? This question has been brought up plenty of times, but with the advent of the Pokemon TCGO, TheTopCut, and Ness's channel I think it's a question worth looking into. It's not a question that we have to answer--you'd never be able to convince everyone that expansion is best for the game. However, it's a fun idea to imagine Pokemon getting bigger coverage, more attention to prize support, and allowing the players to have more input into the game than ever before.

The reason I'm posting here is because the 'gym is one of the best places out there to open a dialogue and get people's full responses. Youtube only allows for a 400-character response, which isn't enough to express a full sentiment or idea while also still keeping a "discussion" format. I think in general Pokegym is a good place to go because the 'gym itself and its involvement with the higher-ups for Pokemon is discussed in the video, too. Who knows, maybe I'll get a response from one of the few people from Pokemon that post from time to time!

For those of you who don't want to watch a 15-minute video, I'll summarize. It's part 1 of what should be a 2 or potentially 3 part series on the possibility of expanding the game. Part 1 is simply addressing the obstacles that are in place, but not how to solve them. The biggest problems I list as preventing the game from expanding are 1) interest and funding from the company itself, 2) maintaining the integrity of our awesome playerbase, 3) improving our communication with the higher-ups at TPCi, and 4) establishing a connection between us and Japan, the actual creators of our game and cards.

All I'm really looking for is a discussion on this topic, since it isn't touched that often. Are these the problems we should address? If not, what are bigger problems? Are these problems solvable? What are potential solutions to expansion? Or should we not expand at all? All these things are relevant, and I'm hoping to get the biggest reach of comments and commentary to put in the next video. The 'gym has by far the most active Pokemon TCG players to its name, and I figured this would be a good place to try and move the conversation.

The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8rv5M_mb2Y&feature=channel_video_title . When I first put out content, the 'gym removed my post about my videos, but it looks like things have laxed a little since then with both Jason K. and Pooka having respective threads about their videos. Even if you have to remove the video link, mods, I'd appreciate it if I could keep the discussion thread up. I appreciate it, and thanks for any responses!

-Josh

Part 2 is now out, adding another question into the discussion. Is my proposal feasible, or too "out there" to be possible? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb3VySinjB0&feature=email&email=comment_received

 

[Prime]

#4 - Establishing a connection between us and Japan

Is such an important point.

I dislike how TPCi transforms Japanese products into different non-Japanese products. They take Japanese theme decks that actually come with rare cards, that actually come with decent trainers and supporters, and tear them apart to make new decks without those rare cards and with a slew of common lackbuster trainers.

Let's look at the latest 'Battle Enhanced Decks' in Japan.

20 Pokemon
24 Trainers
4 Ultra Ball
2 Switch
2 Pokemon Catcher
4 Random Receiver
4 Professor Juniper
2 N
4 Cheren
2 Double Colorless Energy
16 Energy

Right off the bat, I noticed cards like Pokemon Catcher and Double Colorless Energy, that are HUGE metagame staples, ironically enough, not seen in TPCi theme decks. There are 4 Ultra Ball (junk arm for pokemon from the deck) and 4 Random Receiver (supporter search), 4 Professor Juniper and 4 Cheren. That's some search, and plenty of draw.

Let's compare it to the newest TPCi theme decks from Emerging Powers.

30 Pokemon (including 2 Reshiram EX)
12 Trainers
2 Energy Search
2 Potion
2 Full Heal
2 Great Ball
2 Pokemon Communication
2 Bianca
18 Energy

Almost every theme deck TPCi releases comes with similar cards like Energy Search, Potion, Switch, Full Heal, or Energy Switch. These cards aren't bad per say, but play a smaller part to the functioning of a healthy deck compared to the need of good supporters and search/recovery trainers.

Also notice that Japan's theme deck came with twice as many trainers/supporters. They understand the importance of them.

I help new players build decks at my local Pokemon League and the #1 issue I see is they all have a ton of Pokemon and Energy and rarely have any trainers/supporters.

This is one reason why that happens.

In conclusion, TPCi takes structure decks from Japan, pulls out the Super Rares, pulls out half of the trainers, throws in more Pokemon.

To at least provide a fair perspective, the theme deck in Japan costs $21 (converted to USD). It's roughly $8 more than the theme decks TPCi releases, so perhaps they can afford to fit in better cards.

Also, TPCi has done an outstanding job in improving the evolution lines in their theme decks.

Compare:

2 Krookodile
3 Krokorok
4 Sandile
1 Gigalith
2 Boldore
3 Roggenrola
1 Beartic
2 Cubchoo
1 Swanna
2 Ducklett
2 Cinccino EP
2 Minccino
1 Basculin
2 Throh
2 Sawk

to:

4 Turtwig
2 Grotle
1 Torterra
4 Wurmple
2 Silcoon
1 Beautifly
4 Combee (huh?)
1 Heracross
4 Sneasel (huh?)
2 Stunky (huh?)

Great improvement from Diamond & Pearl to Black & White.

 

[yoshi1001]

On the topic of prizes, I would favor making them deeper rather than bigger. If/when the opportunity arises, I would prefer that more people get prizes than stacking it on top of the current prizes.

 

[bullados]

#2 should NEVER be a problem with the game. #2 is the absolute BEST part of this game! If it were to EVER change, then this game loses what makes it unique amongst the TCG crowd. SOTG is the reason people love this game. It's the reason that parents continue to bring their kids to League and Tournaments. It should never go away.

 

[chandude]

The main Problem is that, in my opinion, Pokemon is getting WAY more complicated.
First of all, There are many rules and conditions added on over the years. It seemed much easier back when there were hardly any conditions to an attack,and that it applied exact damage. now you see why games are So long!
Second, The card sets release way too quickly. I mean, it takes forever to get the cards you need for a tournament official deck,and right when you get the cards, BAM! The season changes,New sets are avaliable, and you have to start all over. i assume it would be easier to just put a lot of different cards to start with in ONE set, then make different
"add-ons" to help. Now i can see how that could backfire, people would have all the cards they need quickly.
Third, The playerbase of pokemon is slowly being filled with junior players, and less senior and master players. Now personally, i wouldn't want to go to a tournament or hobbie shop filled with little kids. Now i'm in the senior division. I'm kinda in the middle. If more older people joined, it would be equal.
I feel pokemon is getting Smaller and smaller in the usa. If we meet these demands, we can change that.
Pokemon Foreverokeball:

 

[KazamBolt]

If more older people joined, it would be equal.

I feel pokemon is getting Smaller and smaller in the usa.:

Just gonna argue these two points with some Battle Road attendance numbers.

Today at Battle Roads, we had 6 Juniors (10-), 14ish Seniors (11-14) and 34 Masters. I'm pretty sure there are enough "older" people.

Also, there have been substantially more people playing Pokemon this year, and we've only just finished the very smallest tournaments. Yesterday, the Ann Arbor MI Battle Road had to turn people away because there were too many people for the venue.

I could argue nearly everything you said in your post, but I'm too lazy, and after 6 hours of Pokemon today, I'm about to be out cold.

 

[chandude]

well, i mean the USA in general. I don't have exact numbers, but i would imagine that, even though that the playerbase is about equal, they would have more people in the junior and master division. i guess it just depends on the area. I know that when i went to a tournament near where i live, it was crouded with juniors. Maybe i exaggerated on that.
and what i meant about that was with cities,regionals,states,and higher. i didn't really put battle roads into thought. I try to go for the higher ranked events.
and i know the number of people playing pokemon is increasing, i was just talking about pokemon alltogether
sorry about that :smile:

 

[Tash]

4 Combee (huh?)
4 Sneasel (huh?)
2 Stunky (huh?)

Theme decks have always been a very bare-bones starting point for deck building. The idea is that a player starts with one of them, then slowly adds and removes cards as they become better until it becomes a completely different deck from what they started with. The unfinished evolution lines are there so that a newer player will be inclined to add their evolutions as a first step.

The earliest starter decks were a lot more clear about this.

 

[PokePop]

Theme decks have always been a very bare-bones starting point for deck building. The idea is that a player starts with one of them, then slowly adds and removes cards as they become better until it becomes a completely different deck from what they started with. The unfinished evolution lines are there so that a newer player will be inclined to add their evolutions as a first step.

The earliest starter decks were a lot more clear about this.

Yeah, but there's a huge difference between giving a player a deck filled with commons and uncommons that fit together that could be improved with the addition of rarer cards over time, and a deck with random cards that aren't playable.
The new theme decks have greatly improved on this.

 

[ajwalker]

well, i mean the USA in general. I don't have exact numbers, but i would imagine that, even though that the playerbase is about equal, they would have more people in the junior and master division. i guess it just depends on the area. I know that when i went to a tournament near where i live, it was crouded with juniors. Maybe i exaggerated on that.
and what i meant about that was with cities,regionals,states,and higher. i didn't really put battle roads into thought. I try to go for the higher ranked events.
and i know the number of people playing pokemon is increasing, i was just talking about pokemon alltogether
sorry about that :smile:

Did you watch the video? You might want to start there. I have and it's excellent, I've commented on a few places about it.

My only problem is with what you said is Masters FAR outweighs Juniors and Seniors. I've taken my son to 4 Battle Roads this season and in all but 1 there weren't even enough for a top cut. For the record, that one had 6 Juniors, hardly an overflow.

What we should all be concerned about is the "graying" of the player base skewing heavily towards 15 and older players. Pokemon may wake up and find, while they are still making money selling booster packs at Target, as a game, it has become irrelevant because there aren't enough new players.

The reasons for that are because of a few reasons:

1. The TV show has nothing to do with the TCG.

Kids rightly assume from watching the cartoon, you just send your Pokemon card into battle just like on TV show. Josh talked about this phenomenon in his first YouTube video. I was buying packs for my son when he was 4 and 5 years old because "Pokemon is cool." It wasn't until he got older and I bought him a Trainer Deck that I realized "You mean there's an actual game connected to these cards?!?" And I'm sorry, I could not make heads nor tails of it from reading the actual Rule Book. It was when I went online and found the video tutorial that I got it. We've been playing mostly steadily since then.​

2. Every Pokemon video game should come with a brief mini game on how to actually play the TCG.

Untold millions of more people are into the video game and never realize it's more than that. A short mini game at the end of every Pokemon game that lets them play a few matches to get the feel of the TCG would help drive interest and even more sales. Nintendo misses a HUGE opportunity every time they let a Pokemon video game out the door without an updated game to play.​

3. The cost of entry for a reasonably competitive deck is too high.

I realize the Pokemon company exists to make money, but they need to find a better way for players to secure competitive cards besides trading your right arm or paying crazy prices. I mean really? $45 for Yanmega Prime? $25 for a Donphan Prime??? That's $50 just to run 2 Donphans, 2 Yanmega Prime's will cost just about $100???? And that doesn't include all the other cards needed. That's ridiculous, these are cards, marketed to children for crying out loud.

Lower the "rarity" rate or consistently reprint the harder to find cards and make them legal. Or, like another poster said, release the same theme decks they get in Japan so there are actually quality playable cards in them. They can keep the lower tier Theme decks for the casual players, but start like a "Premium Line" that's maybe $20-$25 bucks but you'll know it will come with actual competitive cards. Or sell a package of 4 Donphan Primes for $10 and cut out the middle man of all the online card resellers charging out the wing wang for Donphan Primes.

It will lower the cost of entry for so many players which will, in turn, mean more people will want to play. The more people that play, the more free PR Pokemon gets. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

If I were in charge at TCPi, I would see Troll and Toad selling Yanmega Primes for $45 and scream Hold Up! A card that cost me maybe .10 to print they are reselling for that much?!? That's pure profit that my company should be getting. From a basic business sense that is sheer lunacy! Another company is profiting nearly a 1,000 % off my product? And I'm okay with that? No wonder TCPi is having money issues, they are letting other people take all their profit.

Repackage those cards into a 4 card pack and sell them at a reasonable amount. You still keep the whole thrill of opening a pack to see what you get but know that, after a reasonable amount of time, the cards that are proving to be the good cards, will be offered for sale, They can call them "Premium Player Packs" Or "Pokemaster / Poketrianer Packs" sound better from a marketing perspective.
​

That's why Masters dominate the competitive game currently, because they often have jobs or allowances or can mow lawns or whatever to buy the packs or buy the singles.

If only I could have a 10 minute meeting with the head of Pokemon USA :nonono:

 

[mysterioustrainer]

Realistically the thing I always think that holds back our competitive community from really standing out is the lack of dominating advertising. Even with the new Pokemon TCGO, there is little in product advertising these days for Play! Pokemon. Virtually no theme deck or booster pack product exists promoting upcoming events. For example next set, they could release general information about Autumn Regional Championships and City Championships in the form of a trading card in each booster pack or even on the back of the packaging just in a simple one liner like...

REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS
NOVEMBER 12th 2011
Visit POKEMON.COM

...next to the UPC or something.

There is also no incentive in any Play! Pokemon event to bring new players. For example back in the day players earned bonus points in leagues for bring a new friend. This was always an effective strategy. Sure it could be abused in some ways. However I always felt the advantage to growing the community outweighed the abuse. Furthermore, there is lack of communication between league play and the championship series. I think league kits should include some general inforamtion flyers about upcoming championship events each league season. Many players from leagues never see Championship series action because for the most part they do not know it exists.

What can players and organizers do about it right now?
- Bring friends.
- Be more dominant in spreading the word about the Championship series in league. Print flyers provided by your local PTO, visit other leagues, etc.
- Create private carpools. (Remember do not use Pokegym to arrange carpools). Get with friends and family you trust to save money in the long run for all of you and get to large scale events together.
- Help younger players play better. Use league as a good training center for younger players and show them they are more than capable in playing the Pokemon TCG.

 

[vaporeon]

I watched the video before and wanted to comment on some of the stuff, just never really had the time to make a thread for it.

One thing is, I do feel the prize support is pretty low. I would like more then 2 booster packs for placing in to 4, more whatever other then what they are giving now. I heard people getting 3DS's at worlds getting just a normal 3DS. The prize support is low and just lazy. At the same time, maybe they are doing the right thing. What we have to remember that Pokemon is for the kids. I think low prize support is Pokemon USA's way of seeing who's loyal to the game. If that's the case, I can see why they are doing it.

If the game had huge prizes all the time, then it becomes a money game, which is something they don't wait for the kids because it becomes very unfriendly at that point.

The other thing is I do need a way to establish a connection with Japan. The whole problem is Pokemon International runs everything for anything related to Pokemon other then Japan. This is a huge issue because everything we do is based on Japan. We play with their rules for the TCG yet we don't any say on anything. We can complain to Pokemon International but it won't cause anything to change unless we talk to the makers.

 

[ajwalker]

One thing is, I do feel the prize support is pretty low. I would like more then 2 booster packs for placing in to 4, more whatever other then what they are giving now. I heard people getting 3DS's at worlds getting just a normal 3DS. The prize support is low and just lazy. At the same time, maybe they are doing the right thing. What we have to remember that Pokemon is for the kids. I think low prize support is Pokemon USA's way of seeing who's loyal to the game. If that's the case, I can see why they are doing it.

If the game had huge prizes all the time, then it becomes a money game, which is something they don't wait for the kids because it becomes very unfriendly at that point.

The other thing is I do need a way to establish a connection with Japan. The whole problem is Pokemon International runs everything for anything related to Pokemon other then Japan. This is a huge issue because everything we do is based on Japan. We play with their rules for the TCG yet we don't any say on anything. We can complain to Pokemon International but it won't cause anything to change unless we talk to the makers.

I agree, whether to play or not to play Pokemon should never be about the money. Give more booster packs, free travel, trophies, medals, rare cards (there's an idea, all Top Cuts each get 4 of the top 4 Primes and Supporters/Trainers), skins, special DS', etc (basically more stuff but it should never be about the money.

And does anyone know how the current Pokemon company ownership system came to be? That'd be a little like Ford only selling cars in the US, then creating a Ford International and never checking in with them to seeing how their cars are doing. Weird right?

Seems a very barse akwards way of doing things to me. :nonono:

---------- Post added 10/16/2011 at 11:29 PM ----------

Realistically the thing I always think that holds back our competitive community from really standing out is the lack of dominating advertising. Even with the new Pokemon TCGO, there is little in product advertising these days for Play! Pokemon. Virtually no theme deck or booster pack product exists promoting upcoming events.

Agree 100%. TCPi should do way better in this area.

Furthermore, there is lack of communication between league play and the championship series. I think league kits should include some general inforamtion flyers about upcoming championship events each league season. Many players from leagues never see Championship series action because for the most part they do not know it exists.
...
- Help younger players play better. Use league as a good training center for younger players and show them they are more than capable in playing the Pokemon TCG.

I think they (new players) know or quickly learn it exists. I don't know about your league, but our league is half filled with competitive players and they've started running a weekly sanctioned tournament after league "officially" ends. It end up being my son and a few other Juniors and then all Masters.

Here's why: the Juniors don't last 5 minutes against the Master's who have the Reshiboar, TyRam, et al decks because they can't AFFORD the cards that are necessary to play those decks. Somewhere there is a disconnect that buying those cards (or buying enough packs to ensure getting those cards) is money many families aren't willing to spend.

I don't think any form of advertising can overcome the reality of what happens after you get a new player in the door unless the cost of being able to acquire truly competitive decks is lower so they will keep coming back.

The parents naturally do a triple take at seeing how much it will cost to get a play set of Yanmega Primes so the kid never gets to experience the "next" level of play. After awhile the kids tries to become content with their little theme deck, maybe they pull one (1) good card every so often from a booster pack but soon lose interest because they keep losing or seeing other players with better cards and better decks that they can't have.

After awhile, Pokemon League isn't so much fun anymore and they buy a pack here and there while at Wal-Mart but stop coming. They (or their families) don't have the resources to be more competitive because of the high cost of the cards.

So, it ends up being mostly Masters who have their own sources of income or Poke Parents who sacrifice for their kids to get as close as financially able to the next level of play.

 

[fizzycat]

I don't think any form of advertising can overcome the reality of what happens after you get a new player in the door unless the cost of being able to acquire truly competitive decks is lower so they will keep coming back.

The parents naturally do a triple take at seeing how much it will cost to get a play set of Yanmega Primes so the kid never gets to experience the "next" level of play.

unfortunately every TCG has this problem, even yu-gi-oh which is, let's be honest, also a childrens TCG. demand for product far outstretches the availablility, and if TPCi made those cards readily available, no-one would buy the booster packs anymore. I agree that it's expensive, and can get very ridiculous; however if you take all the cards people actually want and start putting them in theme decks, it will make buying packs worthless and pokemon lose out on more money than issuing the card singally. It happens all the time in Yu-gi-oh and the players absolutely hate it. I understand your fustrations however; I tend to trade very cheaply to the kids at my league for this very reason (and it's predominantely attended by kids)

I agree on all the points about advertising though; for me this is one of the biggest problems. So many people here have no clue about events until I or the store owner tells them and that is very very bad. Tournaments are a great way to get publicity for the game, and even if they put info on the back of the code cards that would be a great start! Same amount of printing costs but you get exposure for your events.

I also agree on the point that getting a closer connection with japan is crucial. My partner, who plays magic, always comments on how ridiculous having a 4-5 month gap between our sets is, meaning japan usually has a completely different metagame to us...I understand that the cards need to be translated, but does yu-gi-oh have this problem? As far as I've been told it doesn't really, but then again this is off word of mouth.

It's also very fustrating to know that no matter our feedback on rulings and new cards, it will most likely never be heard by the people that need to listen. It's possibly the most fustrating part of this TCG for me and one of the reasons I still play WoW or magic; the players feel a lot more integral to the development of the game.

 

[King Piplup]

Just gonna argue these two points with some Battle Road attendance numbers.

Today at Battle Roads, we had 6 Juniors (10-), 14ish Seniors (11-14) and 34 Masters. I'm pretty sure there are enough "older" people.

Also, there have been substantially more people playing Pokemon this year, and we've only just finished the very smallest tournaments. Yesterday, the Ann Arbor MI Battle Road had to turn people away because there were too many people for the venue.

I could argue nearly everything you said in your post, but I'm too lazy, and after 6 hours of Pokemon today, I'm about to be out cold.

The numbers for Okemos were 6, 17, and 34-and it felt fairly cramped in there!! There has been one tournament all of this year where I've felt good there wouldn't be turn-away's, or really close. That was yesterday in Okemos, and we had 58, out of 74 possible. As I recall, that is record attendance for at least the two upper age groups, definitely was for Seniors. I can't argue that I didn't like the Top 4 we got , but it does show even in the 2nd high age group that people are coming to more and more event because of this system.


To address Josh's 3rd point about the price of decks-
Agree with him completely. It's crazy how much it takes to build Stage 1 Rush, Megazone, Magneboar, even ZPST. Reshiphlosion is only midly cheap. Yes, it's cheap in the grand scheme of things, but-
4 Collector- $20
4 Rare Candy- $20
Other assorted TSS staples (PONT, Communication, etc) $10
4 Reshiram $20
3 Typhlosion $21

That's not even finishing the deck out, and around $90. What new parent is going to want to sink that much money into this?


All I know, is something has to be done about the declining number of Juniors. Our area had a lot of them move into Seniors, but I've traveled all the way down to mid-Ohio, to 7 BR's, and only one had a separate Junior age group. We used to get one at almost every event in Michigan, and we no longer do.

 

[losjackal]

3. The cost of entry for a reasonably competitive deck is too high.

I realize the Pokemon company exists to make money, but they need to find a better way for players to secure competitive cards besides trading your right arm or paying crazy prices. I mean really? $45 for Yanmega Prime? $25 for a Donphan Prime??? That's $50 just to run 2 Donphans, 2 Yanmega Prime's will cost just about $100???? And that doesn't include all the other cards needed. That's ridiculous, these are cards, marketed to children for crying out loud.

...

If I were in charge at TCPi, I would see Troll and Toad selling Yanmega Primes for $45 and scream Hold Up! A card that cost me maybe .10 to print they are reselling for that much?!? That's pure profit that my company should be getting. From a basic business sense that is sheer lunacy! Another company is profiting nearly a 1,000 % off my product? And I'm okay with that? No wonder TCPi is having money issues, they are letting other people take all their profit.
​

As the manufacturer, TPCi just could not get away with that. You know how everyone complains about the price of gasoline, and how the oil companies are accusing of artificially increasing the price?

$45 for Yanmega Prime is dictated by supply and demand by the secondary market, and more importantly is very transient: before rotation, Yanmega Prime was barely a $5 card. When Heartgold-Soulsilver came out, Donphan and Jumpluff were two of the most popular Pokemon, and no one played Fire so Typhlosion Prime (especially the tin version) could be had very easily. With the release of a few more sets, Donphan's playability went down as Gyrados got very popular, and then with rotation and the release of Black & White Typhlosion Prime and Fire decks became popular, so did Donphan again, put Jumpluff is still in the gutter.

Having TPCi sell in-demand cards just isn't going to happen. They can't simultaneously control the market conditions (rotation, cards in new sets, etc) as well as capitalize upon the market conditions by charging more for in-demand cards. The best they can do for the player base is give away popular cards as league promos (Uxie, Claydol, Azelf, Expert Belt, BTS, DCE). Granted, the current promos aren't of that caliber, but it was certainly a tactic that helped the players.

(Not to mention, TPCi sells through distributors. You think a card shop or distributor is going to pay artificially higher prices for cards that are in-demand today, and then have them lose their value in 3-6 months? TPCi just can't predict the demand, print the cards, get them into the channels, and have the primary market realize those profits and guarantee against any losses to make that market strategy viable.)

That's why Masters dominate the competitive game currently, because they often have jobs or allowances or can mow lawns or whatever to buy the packs or buy the singles.

That is simply true, and the larger picture is also just as simple: kids under 15 and under have less control over their lives and typically more activities going on. Your average 10 - 12 year old doesn't have their own money, has homework they have to be encouraged to do (versus playing games all day), probably plays in a couple of sports, can't stay up past 9pm, and fundamentally isn't as strategically intelligent has older kids so they can't compete as well at a game like this. Whereas, the video game is very much a single-player activity that walks them through an adventure, fun for all ages and doesn't require complex strategy to win.

There just never will be a tremendous number of kids competing in any Trading Card Game; Masters will always outnumber Juniors. Even if it grows, Masters will outnumber Juniors. It's just demographics and psychographics.

Conversely, the Video Game has a tremendous amount of potential for growth across all age divisions. Look at the numbers that turned out for the qualifiers last season, and this year they are getting the majority of the second day of Regionals, and will have sanctioned tournaments wherever a TO wants to organize them.

tl;dr I'm afraid the Trading Card Game is just a bit antiquated. Not only is the game competing for attention against other activities, but it's competing against more advanced forms of the game. The best TPCi can do is sell the cards, and encourage organized play with leagues and premier tournaments. Everything else is up to the community of Professors and Tournament Organizers, and ultimately players that show up, to make a success.

As Josh says, the release of PTCGO is a huge step in the right direction to try to lure more kids into playing the trading card game itself, even if it's just a virtual version to begin with.

 

[thisguy]

In regards to the problem of the secondary market that some people in this thread have bought up, why don't TPCi just make things like Yanmega/Donphan/Kingdra/Magnezone league promos. Rather than waste time on the useless ones give people a real reason to go to league (although the promos have been pretty sweet recently, a shame that our league doesn't get sent any).

 

[losjackal]

That question/suggestion came up in a post from early August on the official Pokemon.com forums:

We don't make these calls based on ( or pay any attention to the) secondary market. Our goal was to simply get a few of the common deck staples in the hands of players who might not have tried playing competitively yet. You will note that the cards you listed were used in a wide variety of decks, whereas other cards which were fetching even more on the secondary market ( or so I've heard) were part of very specific deck builds and were not chosen.

In my opinion a good league promo either fits the flavor of the season theme or is a card that enhances a large range of deck types. (or both)

 

[JWittz]

Thanks for all the great, insightful posts everybody! It's a broad topic and there's a ton to talk about, so it's great to get a lot of different angles.

Here's my opinion on the secondary market, something I didn't really get to tackle in the video. Pokemon could do plenty of things to prevent price hikes on cards, which incidentally cuts them off from their "core demographic" in the children like LosJackal said.

1) Beter league promos. Last season (and the one before that, I think?) they actually did a great job with this. Affordable Claydols, Uxies, Dialga G, Azelf, etc was REALLY good for the game. I was hoping they'd continue in the same vein this year and present us with things like Pokemon Collector, Catcher, etc. I guess Pokemon's main problem is that they wanted to keep the Black/White theme and only gave promos from one set. Instead of going one playable card/one junk card, they went one junk card/one energy. Kind of a cop-out, really. When Pokemon first gave out their promos, they weren't afraid to make a really old card as a reprint because it was still needed in decks and very expensive (Uxie). Even if Pokemon decides they shouldn't make Prime cards as reprints, there's a wide assortment of trainers, supporters, and even a few pokemon that could have made their way in instead of energy.

2) Promos marketed toward the players. I actually think that Pokemon has tried to do this presently with everything Black/White on (2 Zekrom/Reshiram and Zoroark! All they need to do is keep it up and give us Gothitelle and Tornadus reprints too : P). The problem is they dropped the ball by not releasing a single Prime promo after Gatr/Phlosion/Ganium. If Pokemon released small sets that contained Yanmega/Donphan/Etc in stores and hobby shops, I don't see why it wouldn't sell as much as any other blister pack. Things like these: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Collection_Packs_(TCG) in Japan always intrigued me. Their purpose was to print previously hard-to-get promo cards. Doing something like this for Tropical Beach is kind of a pipe dream, but it definitely would help this game be more balanced.

3) Better box odds. I have witnessed around 10 Emerging Powers boxes being opened, and never have I seen more than 3 Catcher in a single box. The average was lower than 2.5 Catchers total. While this is a small sample size in the grand scheme of things, everyone else online has made statements that match my observations. More interesting to me is that in every one of those 10 boxes, a full playset of 4 of every other trainer wall pulled. In my right mind, I can't believe that this is an accident, and I don't understand it. If a set is poor, making sure that players can get the few good cards from the set out of packs/boxes is crucial.

That's all I've got for now. Just stuff off the top of my head!

 

[ogremarauder]

I think #4 is the greatest stumbling block towards refining and therefore legitimizing and growing the Pokemon tcg. The disconnect between Japan and Everyone else is a Major hinderance to streamlining the game. One frustrating thing for someone who is trying to improve their decktesting is to have to wait until the last minute and hope that a certain card will be released in english. As far as the whole translating takes time thing is concerned, They could easily translate into all languages and print simulateously. This would put Pokemon on par with MTG as far as continuity between regions. I liked the comparison of Ford/Ford international made by ajwalker in post #13. No other tcgs are run with this model.

Other games get more play at a competetive level because they offer more to play at that level. Some major Magic/yugihoh tournaments rival professional poker events when it comes to payouts. They even offer payments to 'pros' just to show up at these events! Creating something similar to the DCI(duelist Convocation International) would create a separate sanctioning body for tournament play. I believe I read on another thread that the complete budget for premier events comes from the marketing department. Bad move. They should be separeate entities with common goals, not one branch clamoring for the same budget space.

Lastly, the evershrinking junior srs division. This one is a personal pet peeve for me. I play this game because of my children. Parents have NO interest in learning 'some kiddie card game' as most parents view it. If you want to increase the attendance in tournaments of the under 18 crowd, you first have to grab the attention of their parents. This is #1 priority in growing the tournament strucure. You MUST convince parents that this is a worthwhile, rewarding activity, worthy of their ever-diminishing time/$$ budgets. As I stated elsewhere, the removal of scholarships in the younger age divisions, severly hampers the ability of the community to entice participation. Yet still, that is only one facet of the discussion. How to convince parents is something that precious marketing $$ should be spent on. Focus groups/think tanks/whatever it takes to grow this game from the bottom up. It may be a corny cliche, but the kid ARE truly our future.