Yeah, I guess we get spoiled here in the US with the amount of support we get to run events.
Prague CUP 2011 LIVE Coverage INFO
- Thread starter Mischkoman
- Start date
Yeah, I guess we get spoiled here in the US with the amount of support we get to run events.
Charlie1322
New Member
Ok, I waited a long time to react and i feel that now is right time to do it.
First of all - hatters gonna hate. Thats well known thing ... think about it ...
Second of all - 45 min bo3 was sick and it was mistake, but rules accept and allow this so in terms of official rules it wasnt mistake no matter what is or isnt common in terms of playin BO3 in Europe or even entire World. If this rule is nonsence and nobody do bo3 45 minutes long it should be removed, but NOW its legal. End.
Yoshi - how many times you gonna repeat yourself in your opinion that everyone here read 10x yet ? Nice, thx for your flames, you got your apology by man that made for European PTCG much more than you ever did or will do so please be so nice and stop flaming here. Your so much wanted apology was made and your hate posts should end.
Same is for Shadowguard and Darkmot. I love these internet heroes which arrive at home and start flame here on Gym what was wrong, but nobody is so huge hero to say in in time face to face to organizer "i dont like this" ...
About coverage : sure i sux ... it was undoubtly mistake in staff team, but anyway i dont see why to flame about it here in next 150 posts ... we know it and next year it will be definitely better, thats all what i can say for now.
Anyway thx to all nice posts here, like suggestinons about shifts in lunch break, better travel notes etc etc etc this is what is good to know, not a ton of nonsence flame from 3 germans (ok 2 germans and 1 austria) guys from 180+ participated players.
Charlie
First of all - hatters gonna hate. Thats well known thing ... think about it ...
Second of all - 45 min bo3 was sick and it was mistake, but rules accept and allow this so in terms of official rules it wasnt mistake no matter what is or isnt common in terms of playin BO3 in Europe or even entire World. If this rule is nonsence and nobody do bo3 45 minutes long it should be removed, but NOW its legal. End.
Yoshi - how many times you gonna repeat yourself in your opinion that everyone here read 10x yet ? Nice, thx for your flames, you got your apology by man that made for European PTCG much more than you ever did or will do so please be so nice and stop flaming here. Your so much wanted apology was made and your hate posts should end.
Same is for Shadowguard and Darkmot. I love these internet heroes which arrive at home and start flame here on Gym what was wrong, but nobody is so huge hero to say in in time face to face to organizer "i dont like this" ...
About coverage : sure i sux ... it was undoubtly mistake in staff team, but anyway i dont see why to flame about it here in next 150 posts ... we know it and next year it will be definitely better, thats all what i can say for now.
Anyway thx to all nice posts here, like suggestinons about shifts in lunch break, better travel notes etc etc etc this is what is good to know, not a ton of nonsence flame from 3 germans (ok 2 germans and 1 austria) guys from 180+ participated players.
Charlie
To snox : Why not organising a big meal between Two rounds for everyone ? It could be a very fun moment when you could share some ideas about the organized play. And I am sure the staff of the hotel would happily participate by preparing the lunch. Everyone has just to pay his menu.
To Yoshi : stop complaining and do like anyone would have done : Play F-A-S-T-E-R !
A lot of my friends says I am slow. So now I do my best to be faster.
Don't say that your deck is not done for 45 minutes. Do not blame your deck or the staff, if you really like this game. Organisations Are not flawless, so what ?
Raah I will stop right here right now, I don't want to be the one who hit the Godwin Point. So GET LOST !
To Luby (Mugiwara :biggrin
: Well done for the title and you can count on me for helping you and Tichris for the next big Event. FRENCH POKECONNECTION RULES !
And sorry for the Raging Tauros mode above.
To Yoshi : stop complaining and do like anyone would have done : Play F-A-S-T-E-R !
A lot of my friends says I am slow. So now I do my best to be faster.
Don't say that your deck is not done for 45 minutes. Do not blame your deck or the staff, if you really like this game. Organisations Are not flawless, so what ?
Raah I will stop right here right now, I don't want to be the one who hit the Godwin Point. So GET LOST !
To Luby (Mugiwara :biggrin
: Well done for the title and you can count on me for helping you and Tichris for the next big Event. FRENCH POKECONNECTION RULES ! And sorry for the Raging Tauros mode above.
Oh I didn't flame and sry if it looked like that, I just said, why everybody didn't like that they didn't announce the 45min bo3....
However for me it was not that much of a problem, although I can say, that 45 mins is definitly not enough, as I've played 2 Sudden Deaths and finally lost to time-out in top4.
I am sure, that somebody told it Snox face to face, I even talked to the Judges in Tops....
Oh forgot something:
You awesome hero are trying to call us flamers, while we want to tell you what was a big problem and had a huge impact on the tournament in the end.... and then you are writing a post that smells like THE flame of the flames!
Come on if you'd really think we're flamers that just troll you wouldn't feed our troll.
No the truth is, you want to defend, that it wasn't thst much of a problem for most(or better just you, because how could you know what mosts opionions were!)
So come on and don't play the hero. Thank you.
Last edited:
Im sure tobias said what he thought pretty clearly at the tournament, otherwise id ask you to learn some english and get some reading skills, then you might understand my point, apart from that youre embarassing yourself and the to, just like you did last year...
And btw im repeating myself because apparently people like you cant read/understand anything and just start to spout out nonsence the moment they dont like something.
I made 3 posts in this thread, 2 were explaining WHY 45 minutes were awful since people were arguing it wasnt which is a complete joke and seriously pisses me off, my 3rd post was attacking people like you who obviously lack any ability to understand other peoples post and will just defend anything, no matter what, which makes me sick because it denies the event any possibility to actually improve.
So just in case, just for you:
"I dont want to start a lynch mob here, I just want to discuss why this happened, explain why it shouldnt happen and maybe get an "Im sorry, guess this wasnt such a good Idea, well take care of it the next time" from the to. I dont hate him, I dont want to diss him, Ill probably go next year, but I still want this to be spoken about and fixed because its still a really horrible decision that ruined the tournament for me. "
In case you mist this, Ill explain it to you, nice and slow, ok?
- Im not hating on the to
- Im hating on people who try to deny this happened and that it was stupid
- Im not angry at the to
- I will go again next year because I can accept that that a mistake happened at that it hopefully wont happen again
- At least from my point there are absolutly no hard feelings towards the to, weve spoken about it and he apparently understands why people are angry, he said hed look into it and try to improve it, which Im very happy about.
- I absolutly HATE people who cant take it when people are dissatisfied with something, all iim trying to do is discuss what happened and I get flamed for "expecting to always win" and being arrogant and what not. There was an issue and I made sure it got spoken about instead of getting swept under the rug by people who think theyre doing anything a favor by defending everything.
From what I gathered, there were a ton of issues with the tournament last year, which is fine, were all earning, right? And I know no one did anything wrong on purpose and had the best interest. And apparently this year was way better, so it obviously helped right?
So how about you dont start a flamewar when everything was basically settled and sorted out and everyone was happy except for some crybaby who cant take the fact that a big mistake happened and people at least want it to be spoken about?
e:/ And what exactly have YOU ever done for the tcg except all that shady stuff that happened last year? Have you ever found a league, helped kids imrpove their decks, trained with them and borrowed them decks/lists, got cards they needed for them, explained the tcg to parents who didnt like it, done a country wide promotion tour with your local distributor?
Great idea... really?! People like you are EXACTLY who Im talking about. Have you ever played 2 real games of pokemon with back and forth, price denying, setup and hand disruption in 45 minutes? Its just not really possible, thats the problem. A "complete" game of pokemon takes 25-30 minutes, at least my deck does. Are you seriously going to say I should play my deck faster then its possible? I played my deck at a reasonable til quick pace but it takes some time to do something, thats just how its build. And even if I played super fast, why am I the one who has to play lightning fast and skip any kind of thinking just to have a chance while my opponent can take his sweet time (within the rules) because he knows he wins once timeout is called (not saying he did since I know hed never do this).
In b03 45 minutes a deck that relies on twins and slow setup is at a huge disadvantage, if you loose game 1 youre nearly out and if you win game 1 you still have to win game 2 in time which only works if youre lucky (opponent has a bad start) or MAYBE if you play at an unreasonable fast speed while your opponent can take his sweet time. And thats not a best of three and frankly speaking unfair if you go into the tournament without knowing this. If it wouldve been announced before the tournament it wouldve been stupid but at least it wouldve been the same to anything.
I wish people would stop denying that a 45 minutes b03 doesnt put a slow deck at a severe disadvantage, then I could stop posting here. I seriously cant even wrap my head around the fact that people seriously deny this.
I really like this game, yeah, thats why I like to play games of pokemon, not games of timeout. And yeah, organisations arent flawless, thats why you point out the flaws so they can improve them which will help anyone, so what?!
And btw im repeating myself because apparently people like you cant read/understand anything and just start to spout out nonsence the moment they dont like something.
I made 3 posts in this thread, 2 were explaining WHY 45 minutes were awful since people were arguing it wasnt which is a complete joke and seriously pisses me off, my 3rd post was attacking people like you who obviously lack any ability to understand other peoples post and will just defend anything, no matter what, which makes me sick because it denies the event any possibility to actually improve.
So just in case, just for you:
"I dont want to start a lynch mob here, I just want to discuss why this happened, explain why it shouldnt happen and maybe get an "Im sorry, guess this wasnt such a good Idea, well take care of it the next time" from the to. I dont hate him, I dont want to diss him, Ill probably go next year, but I still want this to be spoken about and fixed because its still a really horrible decision that ruined the tournament for me. "
In case you mist this, Ill explain it to you, nice and slow, ok
? - Im not hating on the to
- Im hating on people who try to deny this happened and that it was stupid
- Im not angry at the to
- I will go again next year because I can accept that that a mistake happened at that it hopefully wont happen again
- At least from my point there are absolutly no hard feelings towards the to, weve spoken about it and he apparently understands why people are angry, he said hed look into it and try to improve it, which Im very happy about.
- I absolutly HATE people who cant take it when people are dissatisfied with something, all iim trying to do is discuss what happened and I get flamed for "expecting to always win" and being arrogant and what not. There was an issue and I made sure it got spoken about instead of getting swept under the rug by people who think theyre doing anything a favor by defending everything.
From what I gathered, there were a ton of issues with the tournament last year, which is fine, were all earning, right? And I know no one did anything wrong on purpose and had the best interest. And apparently this year was way better, so it obviously helped right?
So how about you dont start a flamewar when everything was basically settled and sorted out and everyone was happy except for some crybaby who cant take the fact that a big mistake happened and people at least want it to be spoken about?
e:/ And what exactly have YOU ever done for the tcg except all that shady stuff that happened last year? Have you ever found a league, helped kids imrpove their decks, trained with them and borrowed them decks/lists, got cards they needed for them, explained the tcg to parents who didnt like it, done a country wide promotion tour with your local distributor?
Great idea... really?! People like you are EXACTLY who Im talking about. Have you ever played 2 real games of pokemon with back and forth, price denying, setup and hand disruption in 45 minutes? Its just not really possible, thats the problem. A "complete" game of pokemon takes 25-30 minutes, at least my deck does. Are you seriously going to say I should play my deck faster then its possible? I played my deck at a reasonable til quick pace but it takes some time to do something, thats just how its build. And even if I played super fast, why am I the one who has to play lightning fast and skip any kind of thinking just to have a chance while my opponent can take his sweet time (within the rules) because he knows he wins once timeout is called (not saying he did since I know hed never do this).
In b03 45 minutes a deck that relies on twins and slow setup is at a huge disadvantage, if you loose game 1 youre nearly out and if you win game 1 you still have to win game 2 in time which only works if youre lucky (opponent has a bad start) or MAYBE if you play at an unreasonable fast speed while your opponent can take his sweet time. And thats not a best of three and frankly speaking unfair if you go into the tournament without knowing this. If it wouldve been announced before the tournament it wouldve been stupid but at least it wouldve been the same to anything.
I wish people would stop denying that a 45 minutes b03 doesnt put a slow deck at a severe disadvantage, then I could stop posting here. I seriously cant even wrap my head around the fact that people seriously deny this.
I really like this game, yeah, thats why I like to play games of pokemon, not games of timeout. And yeah, organisations arent flawless, thats why you point out the flaws so they can improve them which will help anyone, so what?!
Last edited:
ShadowGuard
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Rules accept playing without a top cut.
Rules accept giving out no prizes at all.
What do you want to say by that? We spent a lot of time and money to travel to prague, unlike you. If we go 500+ miles, we expect a tournament that's hold by the standards of STPCs and Nationals.
You you know what he did for the TCG? I guess not.
Well, I told him, and I told the Head Judge as well. So please inform better before you start flaming. Last year I didn't talk to him directly because I wasn't quite sure that you changed your deck during tournament until I read the coverage at home to confirm.
Flaming is what you do. We gave critics to the 45 min system which obviously was a major flaw.
Glumanda
Rulings Compendium Translator
From what I observed there are several opportunities for you to save time during Swiss rounds.
1) Lunch break of an hour should be enough as said before.
2) Work on the timespan between "End of last game" and "Putting up standings". There is no need that this timespan is more than 5 minutes, even if one game has extra time you can just input everything else and when that last game ends, you only have to input that one and can immediatelly keep on rolling. That timespan was too long but I do not know why that was the case.
3) It is nice that you prepare the tournament room to be setup with all result slips and that but this is not necessary. First print the pairings, so that 200 people can start finding their seat and setup and while they are doing this, print result slips and distribute them. It is better to have players wait a minute for the result slip if they are donked than to hold up the whole process by doing it the other way around. This could have saved you 5-10 minutes before each round.
4) The repair in round 5 was conducted in an extremely unfortunate fashion eating up nearly 30 minutes. What I do when I have to repair is the following:
i) Tell to the players that there is a re-pair in the work but everyone should stay in their seat.
ii) The software gives a report with only the re-paired matches, so I´m announcing them loudly and let only those players re-seat. All others can stay in their seat and even keep their setup. Even at such a big tournament, this will influence at most 5-7 tables.
iii) Exchange the result slips and you are ready to go.
There is no need to let all people stand up, leave the room, and start the process from the beginning.
And if you can streamline your processes in similar ways for Sunday, I´m sure you will be easily able to offer the players a better top cut time limit.
I hope my contructive criticism is appreciated. I do not want to bash you but just wanted to point out that there are several possibilities how you can streamline your processes. You have a superb location organized for that tournament and I hope you can identify how you can make the rest just the same.
1) Lunch break of an hour should be enough as said before.
2) Work on the timespan between "End of last game" and "Putting up standings". There is no need that this timespan is more than 5 minutes, even if one game has extra time you can just input everything else and when that last game ends, you only have to input that one and can immediatelly keep on rolling. That timespan was too long but I do not know why that was the case.
3) It is nice that you prepare the tournament room to be setup with all result slips and that but this is not necessary. First print the pairings, so that 200 people can start finding their seat and setup and while they are doing this, print result slips and distribute them. It is better to have players wait a minute for the result slip if they are donked than to hold up the whole process by doing it the other way around. This could have saved you 5-10 minutes before each round.
4) The repair in round 5 was conducted in an extremely unfortunate fashion eating up nearly 30 minutes. What I do when I have to repair is the following:
i) Tell to the players that there is a re-pair in the work but everyone should stay in their seat.
ii) The software gives a report with only the re-paired matches, so I´m announcing them loudly and let only those players re-seat. All others can stay in their seat and even keep their setup. Even at such a big tournament, this will influence at most 5-7 tables.
iii) Exchange the result slips and you are ready to go.
There is no need to let all people stand up, leave the room, and start the process from the beginning.
And if you can streamline your processes in similar ways for Sunday, I´m sure you will be easily able to offer the players a better top cut time limit.
I hope my contructive criticism is appreciated. I do not want to bash you but just wanted to point out that there are several possibilities how you can streamline your processes. You have a superb location organized for that tournament and I hope you can identify how you can make the rest just the same.
Can someone link me to the schedule? If it's above, I'm missing it.
Regarding posting standing: Feel free to stop posting them.
We don't post them at any major US event anymore. It just takes too much time.
The win loss record is on the pairings. If a player sees that they have the wrong record, they can alert the staff and repairings can be done. Sure, it's annoying to go though repairings once in a while, but it saves about 10-15 minutes between each round, so that could be your time savings right there.
Regarding posting standing: Feel free to stop posting them.
We don't post them at any major US event anymore. It just takes too much time.
The win loss record is on the pairings. If a player sees that they have the wrong record, they can alert the staff and repairings can be done. Sure, it's annoying to go though repairings once in a while, but it saves about 10-15 minutes between each round, so that could be your time savings right there.
I think Prague Cup painted an excellent picture of how much potential can be pulled from Europe and its players when it comes to big tournaments.
Prague is by no means the most accessible city in Europe. It's far from what we could call the “heart of European OP” (the area between Germany, France and the Netherlands), and a lot of players had to choose between expensive flights or very long car rides.
But still, even if it has been only its second edition, a lot of European players came from all over the continent to show how much we care about this kind of events. Doubling last year's numbers, at least in Masters. Snox and his team are certainly aware about that, as they had been leaning to a “more fun, more representative” approach since the very first time. And I think the “audience” liked that very much.
While I can speak in the name of some of Italian players who were certainly not favoured by the shortened top cut time, we're sure constructive criticism can only bring to a more complete experience for next year.
I don't see nothing wrong in Snox's behaviour when he's trying to explain his choices and discussing them in public, while apologizing for his mistakes (something people here seems to have ignored). Give him a chance and he and his team will set up an even better tournament next time. :wink:
meganium45
Active Member
There is one TO in the US that does not do lunch breaks for ANY of his larger events, and he works out just fine. Jimmy Ballard in Chicago, IL.
Here is the deal, Round 1 begins at 11:00 am
Round 2 begins at 12:00 noon
Round 3 begins at 1:00 pm
We work lunch in after we finish the round, based upon the time remaining. Staff are "broken" 1-2 at a time (as not to affect players) to grab lunch, so all staff get a 1/2 round break usually in the first 3 rounds.
TOs get no breaks. HJs rarely get breaks. No rest for the Wicked.
It keeps the event moving, as everyone knows what time to return for round 2, round 3, and so on as they grab food.
Event days are ALWAYS a push to get staff food, and like has been said before, the same luxuries that are available at US Nationals, Worlds, and other events are not available for those running sizable events in other countries, and that is a shame and a challenge.
Consider the above - which works for a 45 minute round.
If you get off one round (5 mins over) you try to make it up the next round...and sometimes it happens.
But I will end with this....as a TO who has taken my share of criticism over the years, by even putting on a big event like this, you know you are putting yourself out there. It is MUCH better to receive criticim than no feedback, because even if you disagree, there may be something that can be taken for next time. Just remember, all who criticize, to be respectful in the tone, because if there was not someone who put their neck out there to run the event....there would be no event to criticize.
Seems like a great step forward, and a success, thanks for the great read!
Vince
Here is the deal, Round 1 begins at 11:00 am
Round 2 begins at 12:00 noon
Round 3 begins at 1:00 pm
We work lunch in after we finish the round, based upon the time remaining. Staff are "broken" 1-2 at a time (as not to affect players) to grab lunch, so all staff get a 1/2 round break usually in the first 3 rounds.
TOs get no breaks. HJs rarely get breaks. No rest for the Wicked.
It keeps the event moving, as everyone knows what time to return for round 2, round 3, and so on as they grab food.
Event days are ALWAYS a push to get staff food, and like has been said before, the same luxuries that are available at US Nationals, Worlds, and other events are not available for those running sizable events in other countries, and that is a shame and a challenge.
Consider the above - which works for a 45 minute round.
If you get off one round (5 mins over) you try to make it up the next round...and sometimes it happens.
But I will end with this....as a TO who has taken my share of criticism over the years, by even putting on a big event like this, you know you are putting yourself out there. It is MUCH better to receive criticim than no feedback, because even if you disagree, there may be something that can be taken for next time. Just remember, all who criticize, to be respectful in the tone, because if there was not someone who put their neck out there to run the event....there would be no event to criticize.
Seems like a great step forward, and a success, thanks for the great read!
Vince
Zarmakuizz
New Member
I used a schedule to write my report so here it is :
Friday 4.11.2011
15h to 19h and 20h to 22h : preregistration with deckcheck.
16h and 18h : start of BW3 pre-releases. (They were in respectively 6 and 5 rounds.)
Saturday 5.11.2011
8h to 10h : Registration
10h : Welcome meeting (eventually 10h30, hopefully).
11h to 20h : start of swiss rounds. (Eventually 11h30 ? Finished at 21h30 ? Don't remember well, something like that.)
Sunday 6.11.2011
9h30 : main room opens.
10h to 17h : start of tops
I had to go back in France so i leaved the tournament at 11h30. Don't know the real times for the next.
10h, 12h and 14h : start of BW3 pre-releases.
17h to 18h : Announcement of the winners.
I just found the report I wrote about the Shadowguard's top32 match.
Friday 4.11.2011
15h to 19h and 20h to 22h : preregistration with deckcheck.
16h and 18h : start of BW3 pre-releases. (They were in respectively 6 and 5 rounds.)
Saturday 5.11.2011
8h to 10h : Registration
10h : Welcome meeting (eventually 10h30, hopefully).
11h to 20h : start of swiss rounds. (Eventually 11h30 ? Finished at 21h30 ? Don't remember well, something like that.)
Sunday 6.11.2011
9h30 : main room opens.
10h to 17h : start of tops
I had to go back in France so i leaved the tournament at 11h30. Don't know the real times for the next.
10h, 12h and 14h : start of BW3 pre-releases.
17h to 18h : Announcement of the winners.
I just found the report I wrote about the Shadowguard's top32 match.
ShadowGuard
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Of course we'll give him a chance next year. What I stated is just that the results and winning decks aren't very representative (unless you take the complete top 32 at an equal level) because they got shuffled up since many matches are decided by Sudden Death.
I don't want to bash Prague Cup or the TO, it just has to be made clear that something like this time limit problem should never happen again in future.
Oh, you were talking about the results! I'm sorry I didn't get it. I agree with you this could lead to a misconception of our metagame, but I think we and the rest of the world can live with that (even if this ZPS domination really gives me the creeps). :thumb:
No you havn't, use these photos and specially this and look at me - in blue worlds shirt. I spoke with many players during whole event, but not with you. But whatever it doesn't matter now. We will definately have 60 minute b-o-3 next time
and I said my sorry for not managing this well on Sunday. I would need some guy that would help me with controlling all the time and schedule or help me with some manual actions, otherwise I am not capable of doing all at once. We will definately need more staff but I will count if that would be possible and affordable. Ok guys calm down - no more flames. I think we got to the points and we will try to do restructurings of time management and reconsiderations. Thanks for feedbacks guys and advices how to do things better and faster.
Tomas
---------- Post added 11/09/2011 at 02:01 PM ----------
Photos from Pavel - global 100 photo coverage
Photos from Martina - detailed photo coverage - Prague CUP players facebook :-D - these are listed vice versa - therefore go to the end and list to the beginning - stupid galery java uploading :-/
I hope I would be able to provide you the video coverage today
. Until then - have fun with the photos ! :thumb:Thanks everybody for comming and hope to see ya next year at better and upgraded Prague CUP!
Last edited:
as for the Prizes
Well ok you could have got . . how many? 2-3 booster? from BW-OFF TOPIC- 2 ??
oh cmon this is not prerelease man : ) I hate tournaments where if you win u get like twice as mutch as guy who was 30th
well two more packs wouldn help you . . me or even anyone . . . i like how prizes were diveded
Next year after i win this hole tournament xD i will be saying the same xD
i dont mean it bad, its just how it is no offence : )
Well ok you could have got . . how many? 2-3 booster? from BW-OFF TOPIC- 2 ??
oh cmon this is not prerelease man : ) I hate tournaments where if you win u get like twice as mutch as guy who was 30th
well two more packs wouldn help you . . me or even anyone . . . i like how prizes were diveded
Next year after i win this hole tournament xD i will be saying the same xD
i dont mean it bad, its just how it is no offence : )
StormFront
New Member
IMO you should have played 45 min Bo1, that would have been a lot fairer than B03.