Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Pre-XVII Werewolf Metagame Analysis

Signups for WWXVII will pop up at 10AM EST Tomorrow. This is also known as 10AM EST 8/15/2012.

Anyone who cannot make signups and has a good reason why they cannot(I decide whether the reason passes muster) may PM me before that time and they will be granted a spot early.
 
You do not need to post in here saying you asked for a spot. In fact I would prefer it if you did not state here that you pmed me for a spot.
 
Bluenation, if you need to get in touch with Ikrit, I have his AIM, so I'll let him know. I can't guarantee the next time he'll be on though.
 
I don't see why the game needs to be on another site. If there are enough people interested for multiple games. I don't see why the mods would object. Putting it on another site seems like trying to create your own werewolf site, and telling people to play through the gym. If people really want their own werewolf site, just make it and advertise it in the forum, and people will come.
 
Seeing as the other thread here on the 'gym said the WW game was canceled... is someone gunna host a new game on here?
 
Sandslash7 said:
That makes much more sense.


1) TDGI was a great way for those players involved to stay interested in the game (and helped me stay on track with this thread). However for that to be viable we required permission from AAM to make sure that there were no "psychic" roles or anything. (Speak with Dead effectively).

1b) If there are multiple games going at once then there is possibility for players to be able to do something besides wait for the next one.

2) Our playerbase has expanded. There is no question about that. The amount of players who want to and have played has never been higher, and will continue to increase with great games. This provides a conundrum.

How do we allow for the entire playerbase to play and have fun with WW? There are a few options.

  1. Have larger games
  2. Have more games

We've tried the former. This does not solve the problem IMO. While we've had some great fun with large games, there are almost infinitely more issues with large games.

Not the least of which is balance. In the OP I've outlined the balance issues we've had with large games, and I honestly don't think continuing the trend of each game being 30+ players is a good idea.
Another issue is the length of the game. As homeofmew said, it is disappointing if you miss the sign-ups (or die early) and the next game isn't for another 6 months (or 9 if its XV).
The last of the short list of problems is the level of difficulty in the Day phase. One thing that was good for me about the 6P Anon game was it was small enough to get good reads on the players I was playing with. The ability to get good reads drastically decreases when the number of players increases, for various reasons. Lurking being one, since in a large game its very easy to blend in and post once per day early on.

Smaller games emphasize and promote Day play better than larger games.


So, I feel that we are left with the second choice to deal with our growing playerbase.


Have more games.

The problems with this are multifaceted, however. Historically, only one game has been allowed in the Gym's RTC.


There was only one attempt to have more than one game running at once. but that was mired by controversy after the XIV sign-ups filled early, and permission was not asked of the mods/admins.


There is a possibility that more than one game could be conducted here on the Gym. I'm sure with proper planning this could be a viable option with success. However more planning and discussion should be done before this idea is pitched to the admins.


Another possibility is hosting games an a secondary, PokeGym Werewolf-specific forum. Now this can be done in a variety of ways.

1) We continue to run one game at a time here on the Gym, while hosting a second game on the other forum.
2) We drop Gym games entirely and only run games on the other forum
3) We continue to run one game here, and on the other forum run more than one game concurrently.


Either of these would be options we can consider, but I'm leaning now towards either the first or the third option. The Gym players are a great asset, and it would be a shame to completely drop Gym games entirely. At the same time I feel that we need to provide high-quality games that are balanced and fun, and to do that they must be shrunk slightly. Thus, we must have more than one game, (or at least have some staggered games) so that we can encourage our playerbase to grow.

If we do move to having some games onto a secondary forum, the purpose of said forum would be to host Pokegym WW games. If the purpose was anything but that, I would just recommend players to go to MafiaScum (which has hundreds of games going at once). My passion is Gym WW, and thus this secondary forum would become a place where players are directed to from the Pokegym, if that is the strategy we adopt.



I also have some thoughts about organization, and those will be forthcoming soon.
Click to expand...



Scottistru: See this post for an indepth discussion of the topic.

Historically, the Gym has not wanted to be "cluttered" by duplicate topics. (See the WW XIV controversy) Again, a discrete proposal for multiple games has not been drafted yet, but I'm definitely in-process with it.

I also addressed the another site thing above. My initial thoughts were that said "other site" would be for the hosting of WW for the Gym community (which seems to be what Ikrit's proposal is for).

If one reads the OP, there are MANY issues with the Gym metagame as of the end of WW XVI. Please refer to that for a mostly complete listing.




First and most important was vet reverence. This was rampant and terrible for our community. The skill level of the players playing was either stagnating or decreasing rapidly. The 6P experiment (though with only a 50% Gym playerbase) showed this attrition of skill very well.

Thus, there was required a way to completely obliterate the trend. The topic of an anon game came up as a way to dismantle this terrible trend. This idea was the only way for players to thoroughly shed their former playstyles and relearn the skills necessary for good playing. This was shown to be correct during the 6P experiment.

However. A widespread anon system on the Gym would be shot down instantly. There is no feasible way for the Admins of the Gym to let players on a mass scale get duplicate accounts for the purpose of an anon cycle.




Higher number of players was a problem, but not as bad as the problem of vet reverence.

If people really wanted to make their own Werewolf site, they SHOULDN'T. Mafiascum is the place to go. There is no reason to create "your own Werewolf site" for the purpose of "redirecting members." The only reason I can see to do said thing is for the express purpose of solving the two issues that I mentioned above (Vet reverence and Expanded playerbase).

Besides, as my OP states, most players who play here on the Gym play here on the Gym because of the community. I enjoy playing with all of you, and I think I can say the same of most of the members here. I wouldn't want to go somewhere else with a different established community. The Gym is where the players I like play, thus I play here.

Unfortunately vet reverence cannot be solved with the tools available here. Thus Ikrit implemented the Anon game. An extension and expansion of the 6P Anon experiment, but for Gym WW players, and that community only.


I believe it is the only way for Gym WW to climb to new heights of competitiveness and excellence, and support his idea wholeheartedly.



Again, reference my OP, and the post I quoted, liberally. I do not see this Anon game as a threat to Gym WW, but an integral part of Gym WW's evolution. There is no fiber of my being that desires the removal of WW from the Gym. I completely support the continued tradition of Gym WW. I also feel that this Anon segue game is necessary for the proper growth of our meta. And since an Anon Segue (from one Era of Gym WW to another) is impossible here, I also support Ikrit's move with XVII.
 
Diaz said:
Seeing as the other thread here on the 'gym said the WW game was canceled... is someone gunna host a new game on here?
Click to expand...

No.
There are several people in line to host games. Some of which have been waiting over a year. For someone to just set up a game would be cutting several patient people in line. Also the current game has NOT been cancelled it is still going on.

@BJJ763: This was NOT Ikrit disobeying your post. This was ME encouraging him to continue the game. Do not punish him, if you are going to punish someone, punish me, though it hardly breaks any rules (see my "Some Honest Thoughts" thread.
 
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