I believe i know the rules as well as you. Like you said it has been said if made by the judge. I didn't see the need to repeat it. Did you see anywhere in my post where i said make it yourself? Nope didn't think so.
Prize Picking Ethics.
- Thread starter gallade
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I believe i know the rules as well as you. Like you said it has been said if made by the judge. I didn't see the need to repeat it. Did you see anywhere in my post where i said make it yourself? Nope didn't think so.
It's kind of like taking a test at school. During the test, you walk up to the teacher to ask a question. You see the answer key "in plain view" on his desk. What do you do? Do you tell the teacher, or do you remain quiet and cheat? Students WITHOUT morals will tell you it's the teacher's fault that he didn't hide the answer key, but students WITH morals will let the teacher know.
The sad part is that in Pokemon OP, you can get a serious penalty for being honest in this situation (either the judge won't provide a proxy and/or you get a prize-loss or game-loss). In my example above, this is similiar to the teacher giving you an "F" after you tell him you saw the answer key, with the teacher saying, "Why did you look?"
Curled foils are a common-place occurance in this game. Judges need to take this into account when making a ruling or doing a deck check.
Anyway, if you notify a judge that you just noticed that one of your prize cards is curled -- indicating that it's probably a foil -- even though your deck is now considered to be "marked," the judge should assume you are being honest and consider that before making a ruling. Sadly though, I'm guessing some judges might give a harsh penalty anyway, thus motivating some players to refrain from being honest.
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nnaann
New Member
Exactly, thats a good example. The penalty actually puts players off telling a judge and as more people are prepared to pick that prize, their opponent is more likely to as well to not be at a disadvantage.
Ash_Ketchum
New Member
I have to agree with them, it's up to the player to do right. I’ve battled with both types of players. Those who are honest in the game and wouldn’t try to use the fact that a person has low vision and call an attack damage that is greater than it is to win the game. Those who so want to win that they will take any advantage to advance to the next level.
As my parents would say “If you ask the question, you already know the answer” a good guide to go by:smile:
As my parents would say “If you ask the question, you already know the answer” a good guide to go by:smile:
While I won't disagree with this let me also point out if you take the one prize that is curved infront of judge and it happens to be a Lux X, etc. it wouldn't be to far of a jump to mark cards major aka cheating. Just something to keep in mind.
In a situation like this, personally, I'd say that informing the nearest Judge would be the best idea. If you're not honest, in any game or sport, and people find out that you somehow cheated -- like the opponent making a comment about choosing the specific card that was different than the rest, and then winning -- then there won't be a bunch of people who would be very interested in playing with you (Especially if the issue persists), and getting a bad reputation, as well as not as many people liking you all too much... that's probably the harshest penalty that can come from the situation.
-- Basically, the harshest penalty is players not wanting to play with you, due to the one time you decided to take the curled card that stood out from the rest, which would be considered cheating in lots of areas.
Whereas, if you inform a Judge about it, the worst that will happen is either you losing the game, or needing to find a way to flatten out the card, so the difference isn't so noticeable. Also, since you were honest about something, then other players will probably see you as being an honest person, and would probably know that you wouldn't cheat in a game. So, in this situation, it's more about time/possibly buying some sturdier sleeves (I know that there are some, or were some, that were pretty thick and didn't curl/bend easy... don't remember what they were called)
-- Essentially, compare being honest, and picking up new sleeves/flattening the card/losing the game to being dishonest, where you lose the respect of those around you, assuming you're discovered.
But, in the end, it really depends on what is more important to you. Is winning the game, through any means, the most important thing, even if you're running the risk of being branded as a dishonest player/cheater if discovered? (-- Which isn't unlikely to happen, because I think that most people can put two and two together - there's a curled card, different from the rest, suddenly, you pick that specific card and win. Sure, there's no way for the opponent to "Prove" that you were cheating, but it can be easily assumed, and legitimate reasons can be brought up.) Or, in terms of what's most important, do you just like to play and have fun with the game? Sure, you may lose a few games here and there, but being an honest player will probably make the process of making friends, easier.
I also did like the school test example, used above.
~Nips
-- Basically, the harshest penalty is players not wanting to play with you, due to the one time you decided to take the curled card that stood out from the rest, which would be considered cheating in lots of areas.
Whereas, if you inform a Judge about it, the worst that will happen is either you losing the game, or needing to find a way to flatten out the card, so the difference isn't so noticeable. Also, since you were honest about something, then other players will probably see you as being an honest person, and would probably know that you wouldn't cheat in a game. So, in this situation, it's more about time/possibly buying some sturdier sleeves (I know that there are some, or were some, that were pretty thick and didn't curl/bend easy... don't remember what they were called)
-- Essentially, compare being honest, and picking up new sleeves/flattening the card/losing the game to being dishonest, where you lose the respect of those around you, assuming you're discovered.
But, in the end, it really depends on what is more important to you. Is winning the game, through any means, the most important thing, even if you're running the risk of being branded as a dishonest player/cheater if discovered? (-- Which isn't unlikely to happen, because I think that most people can put two and two together - there's a curled card, different from the rest, suddenly, you pick that specific card and win. Sure, there's no way for the opponent to "Prove" that you were cheating, but it can be easily assumed, and legitimate reasons can be brought up.) Or, in terms of what's most important, do you just like to play and have fun with the game? Sure, you may lose a few games here and there, but being an honest player will probably make the process of making friends, easier.
I also did like the school test example, used above.
~Nips
nnaann
New Member
Yeah, agreed. ( I don't cheat and play with marked cards etc, thats just a problem I see.)
Does anyone know what sort of penalty the player would get if they let a judge know?
Also if they chose to pick that card, since although its marked its not intentional and is difficult to avoid since most holos have a curl to them?
Say for a high tier event like Nationals/Worlds.
At Worlds or Nats, I would expect Game loss at the smallest penalty, being kicked out wouldn't suprise me.
I would expect the circumstances would matter a great deal. What round is it? How far into the game is it? How many cards are we talking about? Is there a pattern?
All these things matter.
Per the penalty guidelines, a Minor marked card issue is likely just a Warning even at Nats and Worlds unless there are other factors involved. A Major marked cards issue is a different story ( and not really what has been described here) and could be as harsh as you mention.
I "ditto" your comment about considering the circumstances.
However, although this might not be considered a Major marked cards penalty (if the foils are random), it could STILL be considered cheating. If a player knows the curled prize might be a particular card, what are the odds that it's the one he/she needs? Using the "consider all circumstances" clause, as a game progresses and players gain more knowlege about their deck (but not their prizes), a single curled prize could be a "big" problem. Obviously, that problem reduces to "nil" (in regards to the Cheating penalty) if Azelf's Time Walk power is used.
Unfairly increasing your odds of drawing an unknown prize is a serious matter, in my book.
For it to be considered cheating there would have to be intent to play with marked cards. Spotting a curved card and reporting it to a judge at the start of a game is not going to lead to a cheating charge unless other significant circumstances are present.
A player should not fear being accused of cheating when bringing stuff like this to the judge’s attention.
But, there-in lies the paradox. Does a player report a curled foil and risk getting a prize-loss or game-loss? Hopefully, honesty accounts for something, reducing any recommended penalties.
Regarding "intent," I think this example assumes the player started the tournament with randomly curled foils - meaning it's unmarked or only minorly marked. This whole discussion is about intentionally "increasing your odds" for drawing the card you need (by using the curled foil knowlege). To me, that's seriously bordering on cheating.
Even though a deck as a whole might be considered unmarked, after you lay out your prizes and search your deck, that one curled card in your "unknown" prizes, if it suddenly becomes known... well, to me, that contradicts the requirement to randomly draw a prize.
Anyway, "intent" is somethings hard to prove.
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Players should always check there decks before tournaments start, solves many problems.
No paradox here, a player should know there deck well enough to be confident in reporting a marked card situation as described in this example and be confident that the worst thing they should be facing is a marked card minor. The marked card major penalties you keep mentioning are only going to come up in an example like this if other circumstances are present. The only example of marked card major in the penalty guidelines that might fit this example is unlikely to be the case when it is self reported.
I agree.
Thing is gallade never actually said how he knew that the card was luxray lvl X or that he even knew what the card was at all. In a situation like you are describing, taking an accidentally marked card to gain an advantage instantly becomes marked card major at a minimum. If intent is shown, cheating is now on the table and no one wants to be in that situation. That is why if you spot the card, your best bet is to report it.
I always inspect my car before I go on a road trip. That doesn't mean I'll catch everything. If I get pulled over for a burnt-out tail light, the traffic cop might be lenient if I tell him how thoroughly I inspected my car, but then again, he might not.
Or, let's say that I notice my burnt-out tail lamp half-way in the middle of no-where. I call the local sheriff and inform him/her of my predicament. What will the sheriff say or do?
Outcomes might turn out different than expected, regardless of circumstances. What seems fair to one person might seem unfair to someone else.
Or, let's say that I notice my burnt-out tail lamp half-way in the middle of no-where. I call the local sheriff and inform him/her of my predicament. What will the sheriff say or do?
Outcomes might turn out different than expected, regardless of circumstances. What seems fair to one person might seem unfair to someone else.
Well, that analogy is a good example of how traffic law and car maintenance is unlike a Pokémon event.
Outcomes may indeed turn out different than what is expected but that really does not change the fact that reporting the issue is the right thing for a player to do. I think that regardless of how a judge might rule on the situation we both agree on that much right? :thumb:
Some people just don't like my silly analogies. :tongue:
Yeah, the only thing that is consistent in this world is inconsistency. :biggrin:
No argument from me that players need to "cover their buttocks" when noticing something wrong. Even "confessing" you did something wrong, though you still might be harshly penalized, it the "right" thing to do.
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"did something wrong," as in "bought poorly-engineered cards that curve in humid conditions"? :nonono:
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