Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Proposing a possible first: Ban from Unlimited?

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Slowking is illegal in my Unlimited AIM tournament because it takes the fun out of the game. There's always something to work around, but working around a single card to the point of making a counter deck is just insane. Personally, if the flips didn't add up, I would welcome 'King. However, since having more than one at once benefits you in such a way, I don't like the card. I agree, Slowking needs the errata, or a ban.
 
BJJ763 said:
Um in Competitive Unlimited, the goal is to win. Not let your opponent have a good time. If i'm going to a Competitive Unlimited tourney, i'm going to win. If my opponent does not have a good time, sorry but that's the game. If i want to have fun in Unlimited, i'll be playing Casual Unlimited. I've had many good times doing Casual Unlimited.
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That sounded incredibily wrong considering we are talking about a GAME with no large-scale unlimited format events.
I guess that means BJJ would be well suited to play Magic and DBZ(considering nothing more than your opinions on how far people should be willing to go to achieve a small scale tournament win).

Am Pm said:
Slowking is challenging, but I say it shouldn't be banned. I played an undefeated slowking deck in an unlimited tournament, and it was difficult, the match lasted 45 minutes. But I just used his own slowking against him, and ended up winning the match.
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You do understand that a round is normally only 30 minutes long(at the most), don't you, and that Slowking only starts to falter if the game lasts a while and decking out becomes a problem?
I would like to know how well you were doing when the 30 minute mark hit.

You were able to beat slowking because it was basically the same thing as the Japanese version(only one out using it's power), not to mention the your opponent obviously didn't run ER/SER (wich is what makes slowking so broken. the ability to impede your opponents trainers and have no drawbacks).

Nobody here is saying that 1 Slowking = "7331 pwn4ge", we just want it to be non-stackable(even if it doesn't have to be in the active spot, just as long as it's not stackable).

In a mirror-match it normally comes down to skill of the players, Slowking vs Slowking isall about who gets unlusky first.
 
The main problem with Slowking is that all that flipping makes the games take too long even when nobody has much to think about!

But I agree that unlimited is a wasteland that cannot be saved, so there is no need to bother with banning Slowking.
 
I have seen a number of people here say that the skew of Unlimited can't be fixed. It was even said that the opinion to the contrary is "naive." Maybe so, but I think not. I think that IF enough of us work together to do something about it, the imbalance of Unlimited can be lessened. Not eliminated, but lessened.
 
Dkates, sorry to have possibly been offensive with the "naive" remark. However, I still stick by the remark, as Slowking can be countered easier than you think:

-Igglybuff: Freeze the power per turn, and use your trainers. Believe me: They usually won't get out 3-4 Slowkings. Highly effective
-Muk: Just freeze the powers permanently, simple as that. Slightly effective; weak against a real attacker.
-Setup through other methods: Hey, attacks that draw for you (ie Cleffa) are life-savers. Fairly effective.
-Aerodactyl: Freeze the evolution. Not very effective.

Just metagame, my friend. Metagame. That's what built modified, and what even builds a chaotic format like this one. ;)
 
Once again, my point has been missed. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I KNOW Slowking can be countered. But even so, the card is extremely broken, to the point that a large number of otherwise good decks have been rendered inviable. It is the most broken card ever printed, and does not deserve to be allowed to continue to destroy the game. If the people in charge of the game think that by forcing it out of the Modified format, leaving it to wreak havoc in Unlimited, solved the problem, they are dead wrong, and it's time something was done.
 
If just "someone" said it, nobody would listen. If Nintendo of America said it, people would listen.
 
IMO you WILL NOT convinced us that SLOWKING should be banned.

If errata'ed well that is for the powers that be. BUT LESSEN UNLIMITED brokenness?

That is what modified is for... to USE and ABUSE of powers/bodies & evolutions.

UNLIMITED will remain BROKEN and unbalanced.

*Hey that comment on the GHETTO could easily be offensive, don't change it but I MUST protest*
 
OK, then, what would convince you? I have used everything I know to convince everyone that a change of some sort is necessary -- mathematical analysis, personal experience, logical argument. All have apparently failed.
Actually, I have a smaller, more immediate proposal. I started this thread in part to find out how the Gym community feels about this issue. I've seen a number of well-written opinions, but I would like to get a sense of how the community as a whole feels about the issue, and I do not feel that this discussion, helpful and interesting though it is, accomplishes this purpose. If it turns out that this community as a whole does not support this idea, then the subject can and should be dropped. If the community does support the idea, however, we can take it to Nintendo (or whoever is in charge of the Unlimited format), who in turn may do something about it.
On Wizpog, I remember a poll being set up for an entirely different reason -- determining whether Wizpog posts would be transferred to the new Gym. Could this be done again, regarding this issue? I believe that could give us all some sense of where the community stands.

[EDIT]The way I see it, there are basically 4 possible responses to this issue. I've listed them here from (roughly, and purely my own opinion) most desirable to least desirable.
  • Errata, with subsequent reprint. This one is, without a doubt, the most work for Nintendo, but it also has the most effects (not necessarily all positive, but more positive than negative). First, it balances the card, which is really what I was after all along. Second, it puts the new wording where it will be seen by more players -- on a card. Finally, it brings the card into Modified. You heard me -- this version gives Slowking a probation! Maybe this time it won't break the format...
  • Errata without reprint. This one's probably easier on Nintendo than the above option. It balances the card, as in the above option. However, it also makes it necessary to publicize the ruling, rather than letting the reprint rule do the work. It does keep it out of Modified, though.
  • Ban from Unlimited. My original proposal. Simple, but extreme. Changes the concept of Unlimited, but makes it a little more playable, IMO.
  • Do nothing. This is the only option I would not like to see at all. Slowking gets carte blanche to continue its reign of terror on Unlimited, I end up having wasted my time, and things continue more or less as they were.
 
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Slowking is without discussion the most important card in Unlimited. I can see why people hate him, but there's no need to ban him. That would just cause new problems again.

Leave Unlimited the way it is, and people who still like to play the format, may do so. :/
 
Um geesh guys, there is answer to Slowking, it's called Igglybuff.
Yes that's right Igglybuff!!!
Gaze away the Kings and you've just rendered 6 to 8 of their cards meaningless.

In return you get 2-3 babies to stall.

Slowking shouldn't be banned for the mere fact that you do have ways to counter it. Sneasel on the other hand has no counter and no equal.
 
i like slowking and vote to keep it you can always play modified

dkates said:
My entire point is, that's not true. You can't really play around Slowking. You can counter it, yes, although it is difficult, but "playing around it" is a very different concept. And it's not just a "great card" -- it's an unbelievably, unreasonably, undeniably broken one. That is why I started this thread. If Slowking were just a "great card," I wouldn't have said anything.
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i vote to keep slowking it is fun to play and no fun to play agianst but if you do not like it that is what modified is for. (and other reasons)
 
Unlimited means only one thing Unlimited. That means no restrictions, bans, or anything that takes away the full potienial of the game. The only reason we have two cards on the ban list for Unlimited (Birthday Pikachu and Anceint Mew) is because those two cards are pshycally incompatible with the rest of the game. If there is any card that should be banned from Unlimited I would say Blaine's Quiz #1 would have to be it for the same reason.

Slowking has a great power in the english version however there are plenty of ways to counter this problem. Let me name a few:

Muk (Fossil, Legendary)
Igglybuff (Neo Discovery)
Umbreon (Skyridge)
any Pokemon capable of invoking Special Conditions.
Machamp (Skyridge)
Dark Machamp (Rocket)
Victreebel (Aquapolis)
Erika's Victreebel (Gym Heroes)
Cyclone Energy
Psychic (Ghost variety) Type Pokemon
Dark Type Pokemon
Slowking (Neo Genesis)
Choas Gym (Gym Challenge)
Dark Vileplume (Team Rocket)
and best paying off strategy of all...
JUST DON'T PLAY TRAINERS (That is how I beat MTM's Chaos Gym once)

Most Unlimited tournaments I know of are simple and not really worth fighting to the death for. Perhaps only during Stadium Challenges Side Events, Worlds Side Events, and the conventions are there unlimited tournaments that really matter. But there is no much there. So then yeah build totally nasty decks, totally nasty strategies, but most unlimited tournaments I play in are not for the prize, just for the fun.

One last note, I remember that MTM saying that you make a good trading card game when you don't have to ban any cards from play. So there are more than enough good reasons why Slowking should stay.
 
Then you wasted your time, slowking can be played around, and you can easily metagame it with a couple of igglys or a pichu in your deck. My favorite is to play SI Jigglypuff to gust it up.

Unlimited really shouldn't be of any concern, the point of that format is to make sure all of the cards are playable, regardless of power.
 
Hey myst you forgot Brock's Mankey with the Gust attack - Gust out Slowking and KO it next turn.
 
my 2 cents....
slowking doesnt need to be ban. it has these counters:
muk, igglybuff, areodactyl, pichu, and many of the new feint attack pokemon are 40 for 3 colorless( 2 attacks and no slowking), magby.
all very slashable to fit in a main deck idea and one of these are secondary.

and sneasel has counters:
tyrogue, erikas dratini, ser, ditto(+dce), broken ground gym
all very slashable to fit in a main deck idea and one of these are secondary.

unlimited is good, change factor is low with a low originality, but this is were HOW YOU PLAY counts more than what you play(cause everyone is play the same archetypes) and by the way this is how it is in anygame taht has been around awhile that the format has beenout so long that everything that could be thought of to break has been broken.

and isnt that what half the game is, to find a stratagy in the cards that just makes it broken, and to be the first.
 
I have always thought that Unlimited could be made a much better format if 3 cards were banned: Slowking, Sneasel (NG) and SER. Without those 3, the format would be a whole lot more diverse. Banning only 1 of these three would be a bad move. Even better than banning Slowking and Sneasel would be a reprint of Slowking with the correct text, and a reprint of Sneasel with a Fighting weakness. SER, however, is an unredeemable card that drives trainermon and makes most evolutions unplayable (without Slowking). Haymakers came to dominate Unlimited 'back in the day' primarily because of SER.

And yes, BJJ is right when he points out that we must be wary of a 'slippery slope'... Once the bannings start, everyone wants to add their personal 'most-hated card' to the list. That's only natural. There are lots of cards in the early sets that are overpowered (like Blastoise and Clefable) that would be right behind Slowking on the chopping block.

Don't get me wrong; Unlimited is still fun on occasion. It's just not as good as it could be. It also would not be UNlimited if cards were banned. Still, I'd be in favor of playtesting a Slowking/NG Sneasel/SER ban.

I doubt it'll happen though. =/
 
Haymaker killed all evos without those three cards. The format will always be unbalanced.
 
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