Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Reprinted cards not legal for Modified Play

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SteveP said:
If a player shows up at my tournament with a 10HP MF, I try to replace it with a 50HP version. But, if that's not possible, I just proxy it. Obviously, I might not do that at a Championship-series event, if the PTO or PUI tells me otherwise.

If they ever institute a rule that disallows previous versions, I'll just use my descretionary authority to proxy the card. :thumb:

I think you're right. Some cards are just too difficult to get. For me, finding and/or trading for Supporters is usually much harder than getting EX's. No one wants to let them go.

...neither do I. Especially those elusive Steven's Advice. :biggrin:

The discussion we should be having when looking at this rule?? ...doesn't it all just boil down to which cards should be considered a "Significant Change". The only card I agree with in the original post (as a significant change) is maybe the Fossils. The others are very minor. Until someone at Nintendo/PUI learns how to translate Japanese better, I think we're just going to have to live with a couple small boo-boos. And the little kids playing in their garages probably don't care in the first place. Heck, Steven's has been changed for a long time, and I've never seen any tournament players confused over "6 or 7" cards since the errata was announced.

I don't want to just throw them all away, and start from scratch?! :eek:

Isn't this what the errata in the rule books is for? And the compendium??
 
Only card IMO that this rule hits is Mysterious Fossil.

Darkness and Metal Energy from Neo Genesis are also possibilities, but I play them in every dark deck I've used, and I've never come accross a person who DOESN'T know what they do.
 
SexyBeast said:
The discussion we should be having when looking at this rule?? ...doesn't it all just boil down to which cards should be considered a "Significant Change". The only card I agree with in the original post (as a significant change) is maybe the Fossils. The others are very minor.
The Mysterious Fossil is the example in the rule, therefore the 10 HP version is already considered illegal.

Yes the question is, essentially, "what is considered a 'Significant Change'?" What I thought the term "significant change" meant was a change in card text that changes the mechanics of how the card is played. In these situations, if you were to play the cards as read, you would be playing the card differently. Thus the mechanics of the card has changed. The text of these cards were not altered to clarify, they were changed.

[edit to add]

I would like to keep my old Steven's Advice, and Special Energy, but that is not the question. If PUI disallows them, then I cannot play them in a tourney. From how I have been reading the rule, those cards have been changed significantly.
 
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Wow. I happen to be fairly busy and I guess I missed that rule change.

The one thing that tends to keep a Modified format "happy" for players is that when their old cards are reprinted, they can use them again. It basically emphasizes that a rotating format is to protect the integrity of the game... and not a money making scheme.

Simply put, it seems like some reprint has vastly altered wording. Didn't Potion switch from remove 2 damage counters to remove up to 2 damage counters or vice versa? The creation of the largely vestigial 2-on-2 format means many cards can be justified as needing "significant changes" when they are reprinted.

Pokemon is a TCG. It is confusing to new players. Period. When I started, I thought you had to discard Energy upon attacking (making cards that only had to discard 1 Energy like Charmeleon look like bargains) and I mistook Double Colorless Energy as a Trainer (the colorling looked like a Trainer and since it was the only Special Energy at the time...). Both mistakes were silly and my fault. Not like knowing the differences between new and reprinted cards, right?

Wrong.

First, and foremost, a player has to be playing in some "official" capacity for this to apply. That means they either should know or need to be taught to check for errata. It is an inherent part to TCGs (the alternative , to "play as is" ends up being more trouble than its worth). So if we don't expect players (even young players) to keep up to date on this, what next? Clarifying an errata is often more apparent than realizing the need for a ruling on a card. If you play an old version and insist on using the old text, and I say its been errata'd (or vice versa), that's a clear reason to flag down a judge, who should know. On the other hand, think of all the card interactions that you really have to know the rule to easily understand and have nothing to due with errata.

My time is short, so I'll get to the point. The whole thing seems silly. All players wishing to participate in official TCG events should be required to have knowledge of the game that encompasses a) the fundamental rules, and b) errata. Judges are there to help when things aren't clear cut, or when there is confusion. Given the nature of this problem, it'd be more logical to require a judge read over or merely hand out a list containing all recent errata.

In all honesty, they've created a more complicated situation. Tell me, what is harder to explain to someone:

"Some cards were printed incorrectly. You need to visit the official website to get the errata.

You can use previous printings of cards in Modified if the card has been reprinted in a Modified legal set or as a Modified Legal promo. If the wording has been altered, treat all older copies as having the newest wording."

vs.

"Some cards were printed incorrectly. You need to visit the official website to get the errata.

You can use previous printings of cards in Modified if the card has been reprinted in a Modified legal set or as a Modified Legal promo.

If a card has been errata'd or the text otherwise changed a significant amount and it is then reprinted and the reprint has the correct text, you must then use the most recent, correct text version."

I can understand requiring players have a print out/corrected version in the local language, like we do for foreign language cards, but seriously: this complicates the game further and makes me feel like I am talking Yu-Gi-Oh, not Pokemon (they hire some ex-Konami staff or something at PUI?).
 
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I love how they know it follows a pattern =/

Benlugia said it somewhere(I think), so it must be true.
 
unknown said:
The rules currently state that if the "game play text of a card is significantly modified . . . only the cards with the most recent game play text may be used."

It goes on to explicitly state that the 10 HP Mysterious Fossil is illegal to play.
Yeah, that's why I proxy the 10HP MF if the player didn't know the rule, and he can't find a 50HP MF to replace it.

By myself, without official word from POP about which old versions are illegal, I'm NOT going to ban specific cards. And, in some situations, like the 10HP MF, I'll allow some leeway by using proxies -- maybe not in championship events, but certainly in local tournaments, sanctioned or not.

BTW, I've only had to proxy a 10HP MF once, at a local tournament. Many current players don't even know that such a version of MF exists (they haven't been playing that long), so that's really not much of a problem.

As for the Steven's Advice, we lived so long with the erratta, so there's really no reason right now to ban the old version.
 
moza said:
I love how they know it follows a pattern =/

Benlugia said it somewhere(I think), so it must be true.

don't assume that everything i say is true--i'm just saying what i know from the japanese sets--i assumed that it would be in the english set the second i saw that it was in the japanese half decks (this goes for every card that i assumed would appear in any set).
 
SteveP said:
As for the Steven's Advice, we lived so long with the erratta, so there's really no reason right now to ban the old version.

Agreed. Nobody ever reads the text on Steven's Advice anyway, that would be almost as bizarre as closely examining and reading a Basic Water Energy. It's a card that everyone knows what does by now. Of course new players don't, but the new players would own the new DF version (assuming there is one :p) anyway, so they would be thaught its correct text from the very beginning.

The only unfortunate situation I could think of with Steven's is if a new player got hold of HL Steven's (instead of the new one, for some reason), read it and played it wrong. But that's not gonna happen very often ...

EDIT: And thinking about it, the only way a new player could get hold of an old Steven's Advice was if a more experienced player wanted to trade it away. And the only reason I could think of for wanting to trade away a card like Steven's would be if it wasn't tournament legal. So there we go, banning the old Steven's would probably mean that low-moraled long-time players would trade away their HL Steven's to new players, who don't know that it's not legal (to these new players it would look the same as their DF Steven's, so how can they know it's illegal?) .
 
^Gah, another thing no one else would have thought of.

YOUR ON FIRE!


OT: I miss Steven's advice, a LOT
 
Isn't the title of this thread a little misleading? All reprinted cards are played as though they were the most recent version of the card, regardless of the format. The "reprint rule" applies to Unlimited too.:thumb:
 
I play with the most recent printing of every card, so this don't bother me in the least.



Still unfair to those who don't, and I can't say I agree with it...
 
meganium45 said:
If, in fact, Steven's Advice is reprinted with the proper language in DF, I would ask that the old Steven's not be allowed due to the corrected one being available.

This will be controversal, in that Steven's has been a deck staple, that many people held onto.

If the card is wrong, it should be gone.

Vince
It better be a common in DF then, after I traded all those rare cards for the ones that I already have and have been using. Money is getting real tight and I have more than just one deck to build. What about those ones I just traded (in combination with other cards) away to kids for powerful EX cards? Get rid of them now those kids are going to feel ripped off. And I know they can't afford to replace cards that easily.

The choice seems to be:
1. Ban the old ones and we’ll all have to buy more DF to replace them, or have fewer and feel ripped off.

2. Don’t ban the old ones and, hey wait every thing is fine. Look no reason to ban the old ones anyway.
 
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