Scrub player syndrome

[ryanvergel]

My roommate Thomas made the perfect analogy for Jason's win.

Let's compare it to say... gymnastics. You have 2 scores, one for difficulty and one for execution.

You guys are discrediting his gold medal because his difficulty rating for the competition was under your expectations, but when you get a perfect 10 for execution it's not surprising to bring home the gold.

Although another deck like Scizor/Toxicroak probably would've gotten him a higher difficulty rating (winning with a rogue), but the players who ran the more difficult decks didn't have the perfect execution. That is why we have Jason K as our world champion.

You shouldn't see his win as any less legitimate as Johnson beating out Liukin in the balance beam by having an easier difficulty but higher execution.

 

[Prime]

I'm a staff member who has also judged in the past. Gotta say that I don't normally bring up PUI/POP things to begin with, so being a judge doesn't limit what I say. Have you SEEN How many posts I make? How can you say...with a straight face...that PUI/POP limits what I say?

edit: Wow, Ryan, that is a good analogy.

 

[dogma]

My roommate Thomas made the perfect analogy for Jason's win.

Let's compare it to say... gymnastics. You have 2 scores, one for difficulty and one for execution.

You guys are discrediting his gold medal because his difficulty rating for the competition was under your expectations, but when you get a perfect 10 for execution it's not surprising to bring home the gold.

Although another deck like Scizor/Toxicroak probably would've gotten him a higher difficulty rating (winning with a rogue), but the players who ran the more difficult decks didn't have the perfect execution. That is why we have Jason K as our world champion.

You shouldn't see his win as any less legitimate as Johnson beating out Liukin in the balance beam by having an easier difficulty but higher execution.

Amazing analogy, :thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[the_sniper]

My roommate Thomas made the perfect analogy for Jason's win.

Let's compare it to say... gymnastics. You have 2 scores, one for difficulty and one for execution.

You guys are discrediting his gold medal because his difficulty rating for the competition was under your expectations, but when you get a perfect 10 for execution it's not surprising to bring home the gold.

Although another deck like Scizor/Toxicroak probably would've gotten him a higher difficulty rating (winning with a rogue), but the players who ran the more difficult decks didn't have the perfect execution. That is why we have Jason K as our world champion.

You shouldn't see his win as any less legitimate as Johnson beating out Liukin in the balance beam by having an easier difficulty but higher execution.

Perfect!



He is ( imo) the BEST player on the planet right now. Anyone who discredits his win because of
what he played is really being ignorant and disrespectful. He persevered through ALL the plox hate, outplayed mirror when he needed to and EARNED his title.

He plays at a level most can't even comprehend.




Give your WORLD CHAMPION the respect he has earned.




John

 

[TSDMage]

What a lot of people are missing (and a few pointed out) is that yes, Ness won with the best deck. But let me tell you something. I've beaten plenty of GG players before. Some were easy to beat. Why is that? The skill factor. Ness may play the best deck, but he's the best there is at it, THAT'S why he won. Ness wouldn't have won Worlds with GG if he wasn't skilled. I've had the honor of playing against him a couple times, and unlike most games I have against GG, I had to think really hard and carefully plan my moves better than usual because I knew who I was up against, and as such, that makes for better, more spectacular games.

Congrats, Jason.

 

[PokeDaddy]

Having been privilege to watching some of his T4 match, even with the great deck, Gardy Gallade, Jason played at an unbelievable level. His game in T4 was nothing short of brilliant.

Many, many, other plays, given the cards in play and in his hand would not even remotely have pulled off what he did.

I don't like putting labels on folks like "the best ever JR/SR/MA". I do like to say that on that day, the best player won each division.

Just like at US Nats, the MA/SR/JR champions were the best players on that day.

Great decks don't win matches, great players do.

 

[ryanvergel]

"Every dog has his day"

Jason=Cerberus

 

[Professor_Chris]

Surely people have nothing against Jason et al. who play GG, but the deck itself. It isn't prejudice. People might not like the deck, they may deride people who play the deck, but it isn't prejudice. Lets not overstate an issue that is even barely there.

Did you read the thread? The entire thing was brought about because there were some people discrediting Jason's win because he used GG.

By the way, your own definition fails you. There is no preconceived notion about GG. The deck is out in the open, ready for anyone to utilise. What exactly is preconceived?

There are, however, preconceived notions about people who choose to play GG. Some being that they're cut-throat, elitist, and only care about winning.

...what?

Maybe because sets aren't printed and released the second they are designed? Because PCL have a development team? Because any sane person would not design sets in isolation to one another?

Because before POP decide on a format, they'd look at the cardpool, and PCL should be designing their latest sets with our format in mind (given how large the POP-administered market is)?

I might've misinterpreted your question, because it's not exactly rocket science...

PCL is located in Japan and primarily releases sets with the Japanese format in mind. This should no longer be an issue since we'll have a world-wide format at least for this year. When POP decided the format for this year, only DP was released here. Mysterious Treasures was released during Worlds, and Gallade was in the Japanese set after Gardevoir (or visa versa?). There was no way to know when they made the decision regarding the format rotation that GG would not only be so prevailent (or perhaps exist), but not get much to stop it in later sets.

 

[Alazor]

Scrubs are cool, but play the deck you want to play, noone has to tell you what deck to play.
Jason had the right to play GG. It really doesn't matter what. If it really is that easy of a win-- then was that game with Gino nothing? Last time I checked it was an epic game-- so why not just give them credit as getting to Worlds and finishing well?

I mean isn't GG all about Good Game? The deck he chose really doesn't really make a difference.
And even though a new deck would be interesting for the new format... I just don't find it to be a big catastrophe with whatever deck any player plays... as long as it's legal

 

[dogma]

Did you read the thread? The entire thing was brought about because there were some people discrediting Jason's win because he used GG.

Discrediting is not the same as prejudice. This is an issue only because of some weird notion that somehow Jason did not deserve to win. He played entirely within the rules. He played to win. And he should be allowed to celebrate his victory.

There are, however, preconceived notions about people who choose to play GG. Some being that they're cut-throat, elitist, and only care about winning.

How would you know someone is playing GG until you actually play them? And the preconceived notion is not about GG per se, but about using some types of decks. It's about, as you say, being competitive. Now some might label that cut-throat, and there is a lot of behaviour exhibited on the 'gym that is genuinely about this facade. I still don't see it as prejudice.

Given that we are on the same page here, maybe we should stop debating on the choice of words (I know I brought it up first). My gut reaction when I first read the comment was 'why on earth are we giving these people so much attention; their views certainly don't merit it'.

PCL is located in Japan and primarily releases sets with the Japanese format in mind. This should no longer be an issue since we'll have a world-wide format at least for this year. When POP decided the format for this year, only DP was released here. Mysterious Treasures was released during Worlds, and Gallade was in the Japanese set after Gardevoir (or visa versa?). There was no way to know when they made the decision regarding the format rotation that GG would not only be so prevailent (or perhaps exist), but not get much to stop it in later sets.

Sorry, so POP have no responsibility to test the format? [DEL]
Its not difficult to get a few people (within POP) to look at proposed set lists and make decks to see if they are degenerate. This is something we have a right to, given that organised play exists.

Furthermore, POP regularly rejig the PCL sets for various reasons. Are you seriously trying to tell me they can't spend some time to develop the sets?

I'm not saying that we should jump on them everytime there is a stronger-than-average combo. But they can at least weed out the obviously degenerate decks. And GG is a fairly obvious deck. A little time going through the cards should have revealed the combo.
[/DEL]

As I was saying a few weeks ago, it's this split between POP and PCL that lead to some of our problems. But hopefully, the same format worldwide should solve this one...

EDIT: Sorry, I think I understand your point; the cards were designed and printed as-is by PCL, so PUI would be expected to print them; being forced to print them means that we would've eventually got them in the same format (unless they delayed printing one card for absolutely ages... which is what they should've done, actually. Release a statement saying they tested it and think it would've caused a degenerate format, if they are so worried about backlash.)

Also, I am firmly in the restrict/ban the GG combo in some way. It doesn't turn the game into YGO, it turns it into something more fun. If there was more than one format in Pokémon OP, then it would still be available in those formats.

But the bottom line is the same: Jason deserves full credit for winning Worlds. Who can blame him for taking advantage of a flawed situation?

 

[Professor_Chris]

Sorry, so POP have no responsibility to test the format?

I'm just saying it's silly to hold them responsible for the way the format rotated because they didn't have the ability to see into the future and know what cards PCL would be designing in half a year. GG obviously wasn't a big problem in Japan due to them having more sets available as usual.

As for banning/restrictions, I'm sure there are probably some issues there. POP doesn't seem to be able to do certain things without the okay from PCL.

 

[Brawler]

Yes. The PCL is the authority here.

Little PUI can't do something without big PCL's OK.

 

[P_A]

"Every dog has his day"

Jason=Cerberus

So that's why he won? He has 3 heads? :lol: Really, well, that's cool. I don't think I'd want to mess with him in a dark pokemon alley!

One more thing - as much as people are saying that we have a new worldwide modified format - don't believe them. The Japanese players will always be ahead of us in released sets. They will have more experience, and time working with them, and with newer sets that we haven't used in an event. there will always be a disparity there. However great players like Jason look like they'll never have a problem with that.

 

[Phazon Elite]

It seems as though I was too tired to post last night, and half of what I meant to say got mistranslated. Ah, whatever.

To explain the last point you made, as the first two are pretty easy.

Please do note that I changed the second part of that post after realizing that it looked like I was passive-aggressively insulting noobs.

Yes, most of the Senior Staff here at the 'Gym are HJ's and TO's / PTO's. So what? I am a TO / Judge, does that mean PUI decides what I can and cannot say? In part yes, I am not allowed to discuss things that are covered by a non disclosure agreement (NDA), I am also covered by a NDA for the 'Gym when dealing with Staff discussions.

Does that mean that because of those NDA's either PUI or the 'Gym spoon feeds me what to say? No, it does not. I discuss what I can and leave the other things to appropriate forums.

No, I didn't mean the Staff is restricted on what they can say. The ENTIRE COMMUNITY is restricted on what they can say. Depending on what side of the child-protection fence you're on, that might be good
or bad. To me, that's not very good.

In fact, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being good and 10 being bad, the Pokegym atmosphere is a 6, if you ask me.

The 'Gym is not owned in any way, shape, or form by Nintendo, POP, PUI, or any other group. It is owned by Team Compendium, that team is composed of 5 normal people. Yes those people are PTO's / Judges / League Owners / Leaders - whatever. It could be owned by 5 people that have no clue what Pokgeyman is, much less care.

I forget, who exactly are the five people who own the Gym? BDS, Pokepop, GLB, M_Liesik, Professor Dav? Am I right?

I'm not being smart, I really just want to know who the five specified owners are.

Actually, what this should say, is the members dictate what is posted and discussed here, the Staff simply is here to keep things at a PG level and calm for everyone involved. You think if the Staff did not care to have the members discussing their issues we would have allowed the 'Ban G&G' topic to reach 30+ pages, knowing that it was not looking good to actually happen? If the Owners and Staff did not care, do you think the 'Gym would even be here? The Owners make sure this place stays open and accessible for everyone.

The staff decided that the members could continue talking about GG being banned from worlds. In other words, had the Staff been so inclined, they could have locked the thread (just like many of the members were asking them to do), thereby dictating that the members could no longer talk about GG being banned from Worlds.

No matter which way you dice it, the Staff DOES dictate what the community can and cannot say, for better and for worse.

As for the Staff, no one that does this job gets paid, we do what we do for the members, not for ourselves, just like the PTO's / TO's / Judges / LL's / LO's. We do what we do for the love of the game and to keep the game going for the players.

That's not exactly what I wanted to know, but that IS how it should be.

 

[PokePop]

I forget, who exactly are the five people who own the Gym? BDS, Pokepop, GLB, M_Liesik, Professor Dav? Am I right?

The Gym is owned by Team Compendium.
Current membership of Team Compendium consists of BDS, Chrisbo, PokePop, bulbasnore, and Gym Leader Blaine

Mike Liesik and Dave Schwimmer are POP managers and will sometimes answer questions in ATM as all POP managers have been given access to do.

 

[LionheartEX]

Perfect!



He is ( imo) the BEST player on the planet right now. Anyone who discredits his win because of
what he played is really being ignorant and disrespectful. He persevered through ALL the plox hate, outplayed mirror when he needed to and EARNED his title.

He plays at a level most can't even comprehend.




Give your WORLD CHAMPION the respect he has earned.




John

^This imo.


He ouplayed the mirror and the tough matchups, and won... again.

Anyone who is discrediting Jason's victory: Why didn't you win if you played plox? or why didn't you win when you played Empozong? Why weren't some of you competing in the main event? He outplayed us all and won, he is the best player in the game. 2 time World Champion.

 

[ChicoBlanco]

Lake Boundary + Jolteon * for a Gallade OHKO?
I'd like to see you do that with a rogue deck.

That was indeed a great play on Jason's part...

however, I wouldn't limit the capabilities of Rogue decks either..
Remember Pablo in Top 4 of Worlds 2005?
Feebas+Rare Candy to Milotic
healing literally HUNDREDS of damage that the Japanese Rock-Lock player dealt to him with Spinning Tail...

probably one of the best surprise moves the game has ever seen... :biggrin:

The Japanese players will always be ahead of us in released sets. They will have more experience, and time working with them, and with newer sets that we haven't used in an event. there will always be a disparity there. However great players like Jason look like they'll never have a problem with that.

actually this year, (and the year before) that was a huge disadvantage to the Japan, not an advantage.

the reason why is because they're format was soooo large compared to ours.
not only do they have the new archetypes dominating, but they also have cards as old as FireRedLeafGreen in their format.

in the Japanese format G&G wasn't even good, because it got destroyed by Bannete ex and AMU.

and to automatically switch and conform the the american format of HP-on??

that's no advantage.

even I expected Yamato and the other Japanese to use G&G this year...
why? just because it's the BDIF?...
nah, but because it would be so hard (or darn near impossible) for the Japanese to build a good counter-deck to a format that they haven't even been playing in all season..

 

[dogma]

I'm just saying it's silly to hold them responsible for the way the format rotated because they didn't have the ability to see into the future and know what cards PCL would be designing in half a year. GG obviously wasn't a big problem in Japan due to them having more sets available as usual.

As for banning/restrictions, I'm sure there are probably some issues there. POP doesn't seem to be able to do certain things without the okay from PCL.

I'm under the impression that sets are designed much earlier than half a year in advance, but maybe I'm wrong...