Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Should we add another benefit to evolving? (If so, what)

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Just checking: how long have you paid attention to what I said? Just curious; when the formats have been dominated by Evolutions, save those times I'd been on hiatus, I've then made the similar arguments for "restoring fully Evolved Basic Pokemon" to their rightful place. Plus right now, I actually am arguing for all fully Evolved Pokemon to be on an equal playing field; Stage 2 Pokemon have it worst right now, then Stage 1, but even many Basic Pokemon have been reduced to nothing but set filler because the power creep became the power leap.

It was just an observation I made. Just because someone has a bias towards something shouldn't mean they can't participate in a discussion, which was the opposite of what you said to the other person. After all, everyone has bias.
 
You're a customer. I'm a customer. We both let the seller know what we want and they decide which is better to deliver. I understand why you enjoy the game being fast paced. You yourself said most other TCGs are even faster, so... have you considered that you can play them? I am not telling you to stop playing, I am merely pointing out you have alternatives. I don't. I've tried other TCGs and found Pokemon to be my favorite even before factoring in my fondness of the franchise itself.

Sure, you have a right to complain. At least while you complain, don't boast that you know how to make the format better. Understand that your adjustments to a format only satisfy you, and those that share the same opinion. I've read your posts and you act like everyone wants to see slower play and stage 2s. Slower does not = better. Heck faster doesn't = better. Again, I'm not advocating 'fast format for life!' I'm merely suggesting that our format isn't bad. If the tables were turned, and it were a game of set up, I shouldn't complain either, so long as it was a good format otherwise.

If I should accept the way the game is, and complaining is inevitable... shouldn't you simply be silent and accept my complaining? If the game remains fast paced, at least I've been allowed to say my peace. Well, unless you're in charge, apparently. :rolleyes:

If I should be silent and accept your complaining, shouldn't you be silent and accept mine? This can go on forever, and isn't a very good point. We're having a discussion here, I'm going to try and explain that you are wrong and that I am right, while you do the same, respectively. I feel as though people shouldn't complain about this, and if they do, their complains aren't very logical with the grand scheme of players and their opinions. If you feel like I shouldn't voice my disagreement, then say so, but I get the feeling your comment above was entirely hypothetical.

And this is why I pointed out you have reason to be biased. You said it yourself: this is the formats where you have done the best and you love it. Would you be so fond if you not only weren't on top, but were actually performing the worst you ever had? Doing well this format doesn't negate your input, but it does color it and needs to be acknowledged.

My apologies. That meant to read: my greatest achievements came from the era I was previously referring to. Some of the "back in the day" eras. My point was that I am successful in both.

Your point actually seems to be that I shouldn't be allowed to voice my opinions on the game,

Again, of course you have a right to complain, but I don't agree with the complaining.


I hear people's complaints, and I look to see if there is a way to solve them. :

The method here, is to make others complain as well. It's an endless cycle. Why not complain about something that doesn't have such a solution, perhaps when the format itself actually is bad, and everyone (more or less) can agree. The release of BW rules with the existence of Sableye was a perfect example of how the format would have been terrible, and everyone agreed (more or less).
 
A bunch of posts on here are starting to stray from the topic, guys.

You're supposed to be talking about benefits for evolution cards. Not format balancing.

Kindly steer it back in that direction, please.
 
A bunch of posts on here are starting to stray from the topic, guys.

You're supposed to be talking about benefits for evolution cards. Not format balancing.

Kindly steer it back in that direction, please.

They are one and the same.

The purpose for bringing up benefits for evolution cards is an attempt to balance the format.

We are exploring other ways of balancing the format as well.

After a page, the original topic was pretty well used up. So, we moved in a natural direction.

There are times when the natural evolution of a topic is still on-point with the original purpose. This is most definitely one of those times.
 
As a life motto, I usually say 'don't complain, just adapt'. You realize for anyone to be within this 'benefiting group' they must have first adapted to the format, then proceeded to benefit. I am in fact asking for you, and those that dislike the pace of the format to adapt. The only other alternative is to change the game to make other people complain instead. Even if the format were stage 2 dominant, I would advocate adaption over complaining. I would play a stage 2 deck and have fun with it as well. In fact, history would suggest I already have.

I don't see some form of 'magical solution' being possible. Where the game is both short and lengthy. I don't find that realistic what-so-ever. Take out the fact that I enjoy the game as it is and look at what I'm saying; don't nit pick at a good format. By nit picking I mean making a large issue out of something that is not a large issue. The things I find to be large issues have been already stated, but I'll recap here; Skill intensive; Luck minimized; good deck options; innovative deck creation. If those 'large issues' are getting out of hand, then that would be when even I would complain. Or I would simply stop playing (a form of adapting).

There's a time and place for everything. Here and now; not the time for complaining.

PS. Evolutions and lengthy games tend to go hand in hand. I'm against making evolutions more powerful (or basics less powerful), Otaku is for it. I feel as though we are in fact discussing the topic at hand.
 
I don't feel we need any new abilities for Stage 2's. I predict anything we add would be too confusing for new players and, ultimately unnecessary.

I'd be happy just seeing some more of the awesome things we already had in the past. Speedy Evolutions (Pre-nerf Rare Candy, Broken Time Space), free retreat (Jumpluff HGSS), Playable Ability/Power/Body (Empoleon DE, Magnezone TR, Vileplume UD), decent and low energy attack (Empoleon DE, Jumpluff HGSS, Machamp SF), and nice hp score (Tyranitar Prime).

I feel that if more of these come into play in future sets and especially with a Broken Time Space reprint, then there'll be a lot less complaints about useless/dead Stage 2's and a lot less discussions about what should be done to fix that.
 
All the stage 2's now have pathetic attacks that are easily overshadowed by basics. If there's a Stage 2 that's worth setting up to give you an edge in winning (like how Magnezone was in the pre-EX format), maybe the format would be better balanced. Maybe a Stage 2 that does 100 damage for 2 energy? It's just a thought. :smile:
Posted with Mobile style...
 
I've been meaning to post in this thread but haven't had a chance to read through the whole thing so forgive me if this was mentioned already. I did a quick text search and didn't find anything related to it.

How about taking away X2 weakness on evolutions and give them back +10 ~ +40 like back in the DP series? +30 on Stage 2's was the norm but some things (like Machamp Lv. X) had a +40 weakness. It makes sense to me, and we could keep the big basics with X2 weakness. It doesn't seem fair for a basic to have the same HP as Stage 2, and both of them are just as easy to KO. Imagine some of the current Stage 2's with only a +30 weakness. Empoleon wouldn't have to worry about Thundurus and it could work around Zekrom's Outrage. Magnezone could take a hit from a fully loaded Terrakion and Landorus. I can't think of many more common examples, but I mean still Typhlosion could attack a Kyurem (non-EX) and not have to worry about the Outrage OHKO, Gothitelle might be viable, Chandelure might still have a chance after Dark Explorers is released, etc. I'm sure there's more, but you get the idea.

This seems like a fair way to go right now to me. We've completely done away with the additive weaknesses, I don't get why we bother printing "X2" on the cards anymore as it's pretty much implied. Everything has a X2 weakness... except, I believe, there's a legal Pikachu with a +10 weakness lol. Still, we should bring this mechanic back. It would balance evolutions/basics and it wouldn't make match-ups as weakness dependent. Also, I think it would be a bad idea to introduce something like Lucario GL or Lake Boundary that gave everything a X2 weakness in this kind of format UNLESS it was given through the ability of a Stage 2 Pokemon.
 
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I've been meaning to post in this thread but haven't had a chance to read through the whole thing so forgive me if this was mentioned already. I did a quick text search and didn't find anything related to it.

How about taking away X2 weakness on evolutions and give them back +10 ~ +40 like back in the DP series? +30 on Stage 2's was the norm but some things (like Machamp Lv. X) had a +40 weakness. It makes sense to me, and we could keep the big basics with X2 weakness. It doesn't seem fair for a basic to have the same HP as Stage 2, and both of them are just as easy to KO. Imagine some of the current Stage 2's with only a +30 weakness. Empoleon wouldn't have to worry about Thundurus and it could work around Zekrom's Outrage. Magnezone could take a hit from a fully loaded Terrakion and Landorus. I can't think of many more common examples, but I mean still Typhlosion could attack a Kyurem (non-EX) and not have to worry about the Outrage OHKO, Gothitelle might be viable, Chandelure might still have a chance after Dark Explorers is released, etc. I'm sure there's more, but you get the idea.

This seems like a fair way to go right now to me. We've completely done away with the additive weaknesses, I don't get why we bother printing "X2" on the cards anymore as it's pretty much implied. Everything has a X2 weakness... except, I believe, there's a legal Pikachu with a +10 weakness lol. Still, we should bring this mechanic back. It would balance evolutions/basics and it wouldn't make match-ups as weakness dependent. Also, I think it would be a bad idea to introduce something like Lucario GL or Lake Boundary that gave everything a X2 weakness in this kind of format UNLESS it was given through the ability of a Stage 2 Pokemon.

I agree with everything you just said. It makes everything a bit more balanced, and weakness doesn't make a Pokemon useless or good.
 
The + Weaknesses were a great method for designers to set the power-level of a card, as said above, if evos had + weakness and the big legendaries had x2 there'd be some sort of balance returning. x2 weakness increases the role of luck in a tournament as you can get paired against a deck you have a type dis/advantage with, forcing the outcome of the match in one direction before it begins. Weakness is a useful mechanic to keep certain decks in check in a meta, but the deciding factor in matchups should be the actual decks strategy (e.g. Disruption vs Setup or Control vs Aggro) and of course, the players skill.

Anyway! Back to the exact title of the thread, no Evolutions don't need any extra benefit (except maybe the above weakness point) they are fine, the benefit to evolving was once to obtain stronger Pokemon, but that's no longer the case due to the ridiculous Basics that were printed this year. The solution to the problem from the OP is hope that these "Big Basics" eventually cycle out and don't return and/or play another format/game in the meantime.
It's not a matter of fast formats = good or slow formats = good, a healthy format features decks that operate at different speeds and with different strategies. There's a place for Basic "haymaker" decks, but there should be other playable archetypes included in the sets design.
 
Really love to see Tomb back. Or some sort of hard ex-stopping stage 2. Or un-nerf of candy. Really, I don't see why candy was ever changed.

If candy isn't un-nerfed, however, Machamp would have little benching potential and still be a pretty legit card to bring back. You wanna play 170 hp 2-prize basics? Haha, Take Out etc.

Or of course, there is the chance to print evolved ex's, which we still haven't seen in this second ex format (and some of which were quite good back in the day). The only thing that makes me hesitate here is that I don't think Stage 2s ought to RULE the format either.

So, I think a better idea is to increase the HP threshold for stage 2s. When 130 hp basics (let alone exs) are running rampant, it only makes sense to have there be more stage 2s with 140 hp + (and not just bulky ones like T-tar). I don't see why a stage 2 shouldn't have HP in the neighborhood of a basic ex, if you're not gonna print stage 2 ex's (which I think they ought not to, but the moneymaking potential is so high I think it's inevitable)

Yes, this is still more power creep but PCL keeps putting themselves in situations where the power creep of some aspects of the format is so great that the only way to offset it is more power creep.
 
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