Sour Grapes: BR's dont make sense

[TheAnswer3]

Yea.. This is completely true.

You could literally sit at 1600 the ENTIRE season then go win 10 battle roads with 10 not only illiterate Chuck, but mentally challenged players and make it to worlds.

Completely stupid, a misplay on POP's part.

 

[Adam Garcia]

crybaby

um why even post this?He brings up a very good point.

Bring GC's back.

Great post chuck

 

[shiftrymaster68]

BR's IMO, are bad for the game with the Points Ratings System. When you actually get high up there in points, you DON'T want to play in them, in fear of getting a mediocre start to a 1600-rated person. Therefore, Battle Roads LOSE attendance due to people being highly competitive.

Those who live in some of the easiest metagames in the world and possess slightly above-average skill can sweep tournaments of people who heard about the tournament, bought a Theme Deck and a couple packs, and decided to play with that. And doing that all season can add up, especially since they can play in all of their region's BR's and reap the rewards of playing in "The Land of no Talent". In short, I agree.

I think that a reduce of the number of BR's could work, I'd need to think more about the reprocussions, however. Reducing the K-Value would be the best way IMO.

EDIT: After reading over it again, your portrayal of Texas as one of the mediocre metagames couldn't be more off. There are quality players here (in TX, obv.). I daresay that Texas presents one of the most difficult metagames in the U.S.

Kettler works hard at this game. He analyzes the meta, plays the right deck, and knows most, if not all, matchups inside and out. Working as hard as he does, he deserves to break 2000.

 

[Stripes]

Points, points, points.....doesn't anyone play for fun anymore?

 

[Flaming_Spinach]

Points, points, points.....doesn't anyone play for fun anymore?

Not since it became impossible to get into Worlds.



Send the top50 rated from NA, and people will start to chill out a little bit.

 

[Spotter]

First off, before you accuse anyone of being illiterate or even semi-literate, read over your own work.

Aight guys, I come bearing super sour grapes over Battle Roads. I've been watching the ratings for the last couple weeks, and what I'm seeing is making me sick. Before Battle Roads, eveyone who did well at REAL tournaments, like States and Regionals, held the top spots, which makes sense. These are the people winning the HARD tournaments, so they deserve to be up there. Now that Battle Roads have come along, though, everyone and their mother has a rating of 1900+. The top 20 is now filled with people who are undeserving of it (I don't care if this comes off as arrogant or offensive, it's the dead truth). Let's start off with #1, Johhny Kettler. Now I love John, and he's an amazing player, but I think it's safe to say without being a jerk that John is not THE best player in North America. Johnny had a decent states/regionals run, which put him at a decent rating, which is fine. After Battle Roads, however, Johnny gets to jump up 200 points from going 50-0 at 10 battle roads against a bunch of mediocre SEMI-literate Texas players. Is this fair? Seems like it, right? I mean, EVERYONE can just play all those Battle Roads, right? Wrong (to an extent).

Congratulations, you just offended one of the largest player bases in the United States. And Johnny played in 4, maybe 5 Battle Roads. I don't have an exact number because I haven't gotten the results from the Tom Bean event yet. And should you blame North Texas because we have an awesome collection of T.O.s who are excited about putting on events for our player base?

Lets first take a look at what you REALLY have to do to make a Battle Road "worth it". First, you have to know your rating, and the ballpark rating of the people you're playing against. Next, you have to know the general amount of skill the people you'll be playing against will have. NEXT, you have to know the metagame. Finally, you have to guess at what you think your record will be at the end of the tournament.

I thought through all of the steps above, and decided there was no WAY it would be profitable for me to play any Battle Roads. I calculated that I could literally only take 1 loss a tournament, else I would lose a significant amount of points. When playing in the midwest, you'd be LUCKY to sneak away from a tournament with 1 loss. I can name 20 midwest players off the top of my HEAD that are EXPECTED to make the cut at Nats. So, yea, knowing that I could only take 1 loss against the toughest metagame in the world, I (correctly) opted out of Battle Roads.

Now we have players like Kettler, Ross, Miguel Angel Lopez Bernal, and Roberto Sora who actually SKYROCKTED into top 8 from Battle Roads. Why's this? Is it because Miguel Angel Lopez Bernal and Roberto Sora are actually TWO OF THE TOP 8 PLAYERS IN NORTH AMERICA? No, they're not (sorry guys, but it's true!). They are all actually high ranked because they find the smallest cupcake competition tourneys in the WORLD, and proceed to x-0 against a bunch of players who probably, no, DEFINITELY don't even know how to read. The players at the super small shops in super small cities are SO bad, that it's impossible to lose to them, luck or no luck.

I don't understand how you expect to gain support for your argument by repeatedly insulting the player base.

So how do we fix the problem? There;s a couple things we can do. IMO, the best thing is to just get rid of Battle Roads completely. Battle Roads are 100% are ??? based, and allow players who haven't won a single major in their lives to play 100 BRs in Nowhere, Kansas and jump to the top of the ratings for a free trip to Hawaii. Battle Roads are also ridiculously easy to collude in, due to nothing but points being offered. I could have easily driven over to Iowa with a bunch of friends, had them clear out the no-name competition, and scoop to me in the cut for a free 50 points. There's no way a judge would have been able to catch me. How do we know this kind of stuff isn't going on now? That leads me to my 2nd suggestion for Battle Roads: WAAAAY less, and only in big stores with legitimate judges. How many Battle Roads had 10-11 people with somebody's mother/brother being the judge? DOZENS, I'm guessing. Who KNOWS what goes on in these kind of tournaments? Allow each state 2 Battle Roads for a certain area, so things like Texas ' happen (7 BRs in 2 weeks, 4 BRs in 4 days at one point. Kettler had a field day there, I bet). 3rd suggestion is simply give Battle Roads a K-value of 0. Let people just play them for fun/prizes. Don't let these 10-person tourneys decide who goes to WORLDS. Worlds is supposed to be the best of the best, not the best of the who can find the most garbage Battle Roads to clean up in.

North Texas had 7 Battle Roads over 4 weeks. Yes, we did have 4 in 4 days over the Memorial Day weekend. We did it hoping to attract a large amount of the traveling players. And, as stated earlier, Johnny (your favorite whipping boy, apparently) only played in (at most) 5 of those. And his competition was not solely a bunch of cupcakes, even.

Garland - Johnny had to beat out his brother Billy (an impressive up-and-coming player) in T4 and LOST to Adrian P. in T2.
Lewisville - Johnny beat Donavon S. (another up-and-comer) in T4 and again brother Billy in T2.
Dallas - Johnny beat Tina M. (homeofmew - noted Houston player) in T4 and Mike M. (davidsconfusedpokedad) in T2.
Plano - I lost to Johnny in T4, and he had to beat Ryan S. (evilcaturne666) in T2.

All of these results are available at DFW Pokemon.

Most TOs are agreeing about Battle Roads - they probably need to be less competitive and more welcoming to the new players. But I guarantee you with attitude like yours, you're not going to find people lining up behind you to support you.

S.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Totally agreed.

Sorry to hear that. Now that we know how you REALLY feel, I'm sure us TOs won't waste our time next time around scheduling as many.

S.

 

[Pokemon No Baka]

Now we have players like Kettler, Ross, Miguel Angel Lopez Bernal, and Roberto sora who actually SKYROCKTED into top 8 from battle roads. Whys this?

Sour Grapes is a good way to title your thread. Ross is most definitely one of the best players in North America HANDS DOWN. In 2005 Ross placed second at Worlds. I just judged a final match in a Battle Roads where Ross was one of the participants and I can tell you that he plays meticulously and without mistakes. He doesn't make any "unnecessary" moves and I didn't witness stalling. His opponent also played really well (and is currently ranked #16 in NA). I'm sorry that you made the decision to sit out Battle Roads but it was just that... your decision. It bit you in the rear-end. You can't win if you don't play.

 

[Pablo]

Chuck I see where you are coming from, but you could state your opinion a lot more wisel than you just did.

But just to let you know, Miguel Angel Lopez went 18-2 in the last 3 Battle Roads here, Battle Roads I attended, and guess who his losses were to? Me, and guess why? concessions as he alreay has a trip and invite to Worlds from Mexico Nationals, games which I may have not otherwise won. He is also the player who confidently beat your DragTrode before Worlds with Ludi.

As for who is the top plyer in North America? I will say its a tie or very close 1st and 2nd's between me and Craig at this point.

 

[Cyrus]

Well, I'm ranked higher than any world or US national champion (happy Lia?! lol =P), and I ummm...haven't won worlds. That qualifies your basic point about the ranking system.

I don't know if this is nitpicking, but I wanna correct some of the assumptions:

-I was #8 in North America after regionals. Since I won the biggest regionals of the season, I didn't just "jump" out of nowhere. You shouldn't be surprised that Pablo's over 2000 either.

-I didn't jump 200 points...I only jumped 120, lol. I also didn't play in THAT many br's! I only went to five (that's still a lot), and at the first one I lost points for getting second. If you wanna look at someone who went to that many BR's, look at Washington and Oregon.

Also, I don't think I'll need to hit the semi-literate part: everyone before me already did. You aren't winning too much support by alienating Washington, Oregon, Texas, and Mexico all at once.

Alex could've done better, but what's really killing me, though, is the fact that two-three of the players who "100% agreed"/thought his post was "great" are people he just finished calling "semi-literate". I guess Chuck was right about SOMEBODY!

 

[Stripes]

Spotter, tell the To's to come over here to Nevada. One thing we can't appreciate more is a tourney big or small.

 

[moza]

Instead of T8, whoever passes a threshold of points, and stays there for an alloted period of time, should get a trip.

Say, perhaps, everyone over 1980?

 

[Rainbowgym]

I thought through all of the steps above, and decided there was no WAY it would be profitable for me to play any battle roads. I calculated that I could literally only take 1 loss a tournament, else I would lose a significant amount of points. When playing in the midwest, youd be LUCKY to sneak away from a tournament with 1 loss. I can name 20 midwest players off the top of my HEAD that are EXPECTED to make the cut at Nats. So yea, knowing that I could only take 1 loss against the toughest metagame in the world, I (correctly) opted out of battle roads.

Excuse me sir,
I think you miscalculated and now are biting the dust.
A good player will gain points from BR too. Not much points but some.
And yes there is a chance you loose a lot of them too, but if you are such an excellent player it would be easy to gain them back, aren't you????

You could have easily preventing your so called "not that good players" from going up like a rocket by PLAYING battle roads, but you decided to sit home.
Now you see what is happening and there are sour grapes? Oh my god I would almost feel sorry for you.
And still you find yourself a top player? Don't make me laugh.

A TOP PLAYER, PLAYS the GAME and DOESN'T SIT HOME
PERIOD

Battle roads were introduced to gain points, nothing more nothing less.
You didn't take the opportunity, so don't blaim the system but blaim yourself.
Your post is not only arrogant, but also shows unsportive conduct in it's purest form.

Good luck at Nationals, you need to perform even better than you thought only because you didn't play BR.

 

[Prime]

Regardless of what system we run, we are going to see people benefit from being able to go to more tournaments. Now, Moss brings up a point that not all tournaments are equal. That's true, but you can say the same about cities, and states, and regionals. Now, there probably wasn't as many cities as there were battle roads in texas, but there probably was a lot.

I'm sorry people don't like the current system, but every system has had it's ways to abuse it. Anyone remember why "One and Done" was first introduced and enforced?

I guess we run into the same old "too much emphasis on rating invites thing". I bet if so many of our invites were not being given away by ratings, people wouldn't care (as much) about people getting free trips to Worlds. I guess they would care, but eh...I don't know.

 

[Rainbowgym]

Well, I'm ranked higher than any world or national champion, and I ummm...haven't won worlds. That qualifies your basic point about the ranking system.

Correction you are not ranked higher than Arco, who is our National Champion.
He played every tournament we could go to including Battle Roads.

 

[hitmonchan93]

Sorry to hear that. Now that we know how you REALLY feel, I'm sure us TOs won't waste our time next time around scheduling as many.

S.

Well when he was talking about the Texas player base, that didn't come off as offensive to me. That's his own opinion and I respect it. I'm sorry if it did to you though.

 

[The Gorn]

Threads like this make the Pokegym worthwhile.

 

[Bobby]

A TOP PLAYER, PLAYS the GAME and DOESN'T SIT HOME
PERIOD

I disagree. I consider myself a top player in my age group at the very least, and I opted to only play in 2 of the 5 battle roads in my area. In a metagame where there are low rated players who can take a big chunk of your points, I'd rather sit than risk losing those points for a minimal gain. I'm pretty sure Chuck was just playing it safe. He's still 10th in NA so I don't think it hurt him all that much.

I agree though that next year, the k-value should DEFINATELY be decreased for Battle Roads. They're meant to be smaller, so they shouldn't be worth as much K-value wise as cities. I'd LOVE to see GCs come back. That would restore a lot of the fun of the game for me. I really don't like playing cutthroat and even choosing not to play in a tourney with 8 packs for prizes.

 

[Rainbowgym]

playing safe = not playing (that's the message I got from reading).
For me you are a top home sitter, and not a top player.
A player PLAYS, win or loose, that's the spirit.

 

[TheDarkTwins]

I am not sure I agree. I think it is more that the rating system is kinda messed up. I mean there is no reason that going 7-0 at a BR affects you more than if you go 7-0 at a States. Even tho the States have a High K-Value, you are bound to slip up before the end of the season. However the 7-0 of a Battle Road which has a lower K-Value affects it more than the state since it is closer to the end.

Now, I am gonna use myself as an example for the lone fact that I was not in the T20 before BRs I was in the 50s or so.

I didnt have a "great season" however this weekend I went 6-1 and 6-0 on Saturday and Sunday respectively. I gained 103 or so points and jumped to 1943.XX and into 17th Place in NA. Now I am a good player, However, I would be fooling myself if I thought I was the 17th best player in NA. However, I think the bigger problem is why does going 12-1 on a weekend on an event with small prizes give such a big boost to players. I think it isnt the problem of should battle roads stay but are battle roads K-Value way too high?? I think maybe 24 would be a bit better. It would make sure that players like me. :frown: cant just do really well at 2 events or so and jump all the way up to the T20 and give myself or that player a legit shot of getting a rating invite that most likely have the best ending to their season. Since right now that is all the rating system is. Who gets the luckiest ending to thier season so that they can jump up to T8. Other than that I feel that Battle Roads are perfectly fine.


JMO,
Drew

 

[DarthPika]

HA, some ppl have all the luck!! I get to lose to Jonathan Anderson and Michael Pramawat on a regular basis. I wish that the MD btlrds would be flooded with bad players!:lol: