Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

St. Louis Regionals-Judge

K

Kiss_n_Fire

New Member
So, I was judging masters at Regionals in St. Louis this year. After a 15 hour day, 2 hour drive home, and barely any sleep I wake up and hear that someone got on PokeGym and was bashing me and cussing me out. I know some of you may not know what happened...so here it is!

Player A announces an attack and then says, I mean't this attack. Player B says, you announced the other attack, you can't take it back. I was watching the other match I was juding when this happened. So Player B tells me what happened. I call it that Player B does not have to let player A take the attack back and that it is player B's choice to allow him or not to, seeing as how Player A didn't say any different. Player A says fine, and play continues. Right after Player A said fine, I was called away from the table from Vince so I could leave since I had a 2 hour drive and my hubby had just lost in Top Cut. My issue is this. I did not know that Call energy was attatched and that the attack Player A first called could NOT go through, nor did he tell me any different. I wasn't informed of this until after I had gotten up from the table and was about to leave. I am not an idiot, I know that you can't do an attack that you don't have the energy for and that the player is allowed to call an attack that will work.

So, before you come on here bashing me for the call I made....if you thought my call was wrong you could have called another judge over, or at least spoke up on your behalf so I could have looked a little closer at the situation and called it correctly! Was I in the wrong for not looking closer to begin with, yes. But the fact you didn't speak up told me that you did not refute Player B not accepting your attack, so why would I spend 3 mins of your game finding out the issue if you aren't going to speak for yourself?

This makes me want to throw in the towel. Everyone makes mistakes. I made at least 15 correct callings that day and then the one that I don't (which was BOTH of our faults) I get bashed for. It's ridiculous. I am glad that the post he made was deleted as coming on PokeGym just to cuss someone out is inapproriate and I thank the moderaters for that.
 
Welcome to the PokeGym metagame - its a member's board and they get to talk about what they want, which sometimes is the judges. Its tough to get used to, but, as I think you're feeling, its something that we have to get used to if we're going to stay in.

I deleted the lead post and gave an infraction for multiple references to profanity and for no other reason. The member is welcome to restart the topic, as I mentioned in the infraction post, or to join this topic, but with respect... which is what we ask of all the members.

A few good points here:
1) If you have a concern the judge doesn't address, politely point it out, "Excuse me, there's another fact to consider..."
2) If that isn't working, 6 magic words: "I appeal to the Head Judge."
(You should expect, at that point, the HJ to come personally and hear you out before giving a ruling.)
3) You get farther with facts than profanity.
 
I feel everyone has a right to be heard, most definitly Bulba! If he would have tried to contact me and had a better approach I would have spoken to him about it because I don't think he understands my side of the situation. I guess when you are in Top Cut and loose it makes things pretty "sour", but, the good points you made were exactly what I was trying to say! Thanks!!!
 
My word on this:
Player A called an attack that fails, that means he either uses another attack or passes, seeing how Player B didn't allow him/her to take it back. Call energy's effect isn't an attack, so there isn't a way for Player A to use it at that point
 
Shadow,
Player A wasn't trying to use Call Energy. His only energy was Call Energy and he called an attack that required Psychic energy and then said, "I meant the other attack". So he was correct in calling the other attack, but he didn't let me know that the first attack he called could not go through... =(
 
Oh ok, so pretty much what you're saying is, Attack with P cost was used to finish for the turn

At that point, I would say the judge would need the EXACT situation and what's out for proper rulings
 
You called it right!

You made the right call.

The way Vince taught me:

1) Once you announce an attack - you must follow through with that attack. (As long as it is an attack listed on your active pokemon* or a card attached to your active pokemon like call or de-evoluter since those take place of an attack and end your turn.)

2) If you don't have the right energy requirements for the attack you called then it simply fails - your turn ends.

It was nice of you to extend the offer for the defender to decide if the attacker could announce a new attack in the first place. It was more than fair and actually gave the attacking player a second chance when the ruling is already clear cut.

* Yes i have announced one of Torterra's attacks that was not on the Torterra that was under my Active Torterra Lv X - (i was running two types of Torterra and forgot which was under the Active Lv X). The ruling was only attacks announced from the Active pokemon are valid - attacks from benched pokemon are invalid and don't count. So i can still announce a legal attack.
 
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Kiss

Look in your PM Inbox.

Doo Doo Occures

We are human. Our Humanity is part of the game.

I umpire at a high level and we also are human. Our judgement is part of the game too.
 
xidus3 said:
You made the right call.

The way Vince taught me:

1) Once you announce an attack - you must follow through with that attack. (As long as it is an attack listed on your active pokemon* or a card attached to your active pokemon like call or de-evoluter since those take place of an attack and end your turn.)

2) If you don't have the right energy requirements for the attack you called then it simply fails - your turn ends.

It was nice of you to extend the offer for the defender to decide if the attacker could announce a new attack in the first place. It was more than fair and actually gave the attacking player a second chance when the ruling is already clear cut.

* Yes i have announced one of Torterra's attacks that was not on the Torterra that was under my Active Torterra Lv X - (i was running two types of Torterra and forgot which was under the Active Lv X). The ruling was only attacks announced from the Active pokemon are valid - attacks from benched pokemon are invalid and don't count. So i can still announce a legal attack.
Click to expand...

I know Vince and I doubt that you got what he told you exactly correct.
If you call an attack that you don't have the energy requirement for, you do get to choose a valid attack. If there is no valid attack, then your turn ends. K_n_F said that they knew this ruling, but were unaware of the entire game state, specifically what energy was attached.
Yes, a judge error, but a minor one that I think any judge can admit to making at one time or another, but one that would have easily been solved if the player had just said, "but..."

Regarding your second note: That is exactly why judges should be mandating that when a Level X is active, both level cards should be visible. This is something that was rolled out at Nats and Worlds last year by PUI and enforced by judging staff there. It may not be as well known and enforced in areas that didnt' have a judge on staff at those events, but a good practice to get your players used to doing since it will be enforced at Nats and Worlds again this year.
 
Thank you Colin!! There are those special few people that I just love and I do love the game. I was just really upset that people talk...but I guess we are all in High School again. Thanks for your posts!

Love ya too Colin!! =)

Venessa
 
You did fine Venessa. The player in question never brought the ruling up to me or Mike so I never even knew there had been a problem.

Thanks for all your help during the marathon this weekend. A few bumps and bruises along the way, but it all came out great with some very unexpected new tournament winners.
 
Letr it roll off your back! Its better than your opponent receiving a Caution for a Game Loss error! This was the Norm @ the Regionals we went to. Cautions were being handed out left and right for everything adn not even escalated if occurred more than once!!!
 
It can definitely be hard to judge a big event and make 20 great rulings and let 1 bad ruling ruin your day. I definitely know how you feel. I think that is one of the hardest things about judging an event, you worry about when that next bad ruling might come around. But like another person said, we are all human, and we make mistakes.
 
xidus3 said:
You made the right call.

The way Vince taught me:

1) Once you announce an attack - you must follow through with that attack. (As long as it is an attack listed on your active pokemon* or a card attached to your active pokemon like call or de-evoluter since those take place of an attack and end your turn.)

2) If you don't have the right energy requirements for the attack you called then it simply fails - your turn ends.

It was nice of you to extend the offer for the defender to decide if the attacker could announce a new attack in the first place. It was more than fair and actually gave the attacking player a second chance when the ruling is already clear cut.

* Yes i have announced one of Torterra's attacks that was not on the Torterra that was under my Active Torterra Lv X - (i was running two types of Torterra and forgot which was under the Active Lv X). The ruling was only attacks announced from the Active pokemon are valid - attacks from benched pokemon are invalid and don't count. So i can still announce a legal attack.
Click to expand...

This is Vince, and no...you are close...but here is the little detail you are missing out on...

If you announce and attack and don't have the energy for the attack, the Pokemon cannot do that attack (it fails), but the Pokemon can use any attack that it has the energy for.

The player can not go back and attach energy, switch, or retreat to bring up a different attacker as you have entered the "attack phase"

Sorry if there was confusion.

Stand behind my judges and HJ on this.

Vince
 
Kiss_n_Fire said:
Shadow,
Player A wasn't trying to use Call Energy. His only energy was Call Energy and he called an attack that required Psychic energy and then said, "I meant the other attack". So he was correct in calling the other attack, but he didn't let me know that the first attack he called could not go through... =(
Click to expand...

:( As much as I might want to be able to see all aspects of the gamestate on first approach to the table I know that I can miss a detail and that I have to rely on both players to contribute to ensuring that I'm fully informed.

After 15hours I'm sure that I could make the same mistake too. If we were infalible there would be no need for the option to appeal to the HJ.
 
Hey Vanessa, I have been talking with "the Player." I have told him thats is neither his fault, your fault, or the opposing players fault. This thing happens...I wish it wouldn't have because the player who did get the loss would most likely have won the whole tourney. I can see why he has the sour Grapes. I have told him that instead of scooping up, wait, pause and make sure all is right..he didn't elect to do that.

I will say to the defense of him, I did hear him ask the opposing player can I use the other attack since I can't use this one. And you and opposing player sayed it's too late. I still think you did a GREAT job Vanessa, and it was GREAT seing you. You know I am no Basher and I am dissapointed in my friend for bashing. I have known him for a bit and I have never seen him this mad/dissapointed since I have known him.

ermm, I think I contradicted what I said earlier:p

LY Vanesa:p
 
Nathan,
Well I appreciate that. I do feel bad that it happened the way it did and I want him to know that. I can only wish him all the luck at Nationals. It just hurts that people are talking negativly about me and they don't know me. But anyway, I love ya too and hope to see you soon. Tell him I appologize and didn't realize the call energy or I would have called it correctly...
Venessa
 
Kiss n Fire : there's no need to apologize. Take a page from referees in professional sports, and even judges in laws of courts. They make mistakes all the time, and if you think it's rough to read about your bad/wrong ruling on pokegym, think about how it feels to read about it on the front page of your daily newspaper!! Although I think it is important for these kinds of situations to be discussed in the open, remember the first mistake was made by the players, which is why you had to make a call anyway. Don't take any of the "attacks" here personally. Just realize that people need to vent. I'd like to think that the player doesn't personally dislike you. He's upset about the ruling, as he has a right to be. We'll see if this is the case if he decides to post again in a civilized manner. Remember, it's not personal (even though it seems like a personal attack).

Read my judging report to see all of the screw-ups at our regionals!!!

Players, please remember, the judges are there to try to fix your mistakes!!! If you don't want judges to make a bad ruling, DON'T MAKE MISTAKES!!! AND, if you're thinking that it's your opponents mistake that a judge made a bad ruling on, remember, YOU are just as responsible for your opponents mistakes as they are!!
 
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