Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Stalling, A clear definition?!?!?!?

G

godevoir

New Member
Ok,First some thing need to be said for this topic:

1) Stalling. The term stalling is refered to when a Player freely wastes time untill time runs out of a game.(usually when it is in that players benifit.)

2)Slowbro's (Fire red) Poke-power (not exact):

as often as you like during your turn before you attack you may move 1 damage counter to slowbro as long as it doesn't KO slowbro.


Now here is the purpose of this topic:

Ok, there is 7:00 minutes left on the clock, Player 1 has 2 prizes left player 2 has 3 prizes left. Player 1 Moves 1 damage to slowbro #1 and then evolves slowbro #2 and moves the same damage counter to the second slowbro. Ok, at this point player 2 is wondering why player 1 did this. And then player 1 says that he will just continue to move that 1 damage counter in between the 2 slowbros untill time runs out. Because he is ahead on prizes he would win the game.



OK that happend to me while playing apprentice, Even though we weren't playing with time the player I ws against made the comment that he would just keep doing that and we would play with time from now on. and said we should just start a new game. Now Because that is a legitament move I said OK but also said if he did that again I would not play with him any more. Personally I think that is a LOAD of CRAP.But because I didn't have a clear ruling I just went with it.


What do you guys think? I mean it is a Legit. move but If it ever happens to me again I prolly will say no.


Discuss guys....

Godevoir
 
Well it is pointless.
But it is legit.
Stalling i believe is when you sit there and stare at your hand for 2-3 mins.
But ruling on this is nessary.
 
If you moved a damage counter back and forth for a while and your opponent called a Judge over, you'd get a warning and be told to do something useful or end your turn.
You're allowed to do things during your turn, but they have to be useful. You can't just figuratively twiddle your thumbs.
 
Now, I'd LOVE to see someone play this deck at Worlds. Especially since there are alot of people that support "legal" stalling, as long as your doing what the card says, lol.

PokePop: Who has the official word on what is "useful"? There is nothing in the rules that state that you can't use a poke-power that prohibits multiple use, multiple times. Show me a rule that states that the judge can label the use of certain cards as useful. If people are able to just play the cards in their hand, when everyone in the whole world knows that they are stalling, why can't someone just use a power over and over again, powers that say they can be used over and over again, to stall? I see no rules that says they cannot. Sure, a judge has the final word, but if the judge did warn the player, the judge then would have to take it upon themselves to write new rules to the game and I feel TPC does not want judges writing new rules to the game.

At the same time, what happens if a player is stalling by playing all the cards in their hand. Does the judge have the right to come over, give the player a warning, because the cards the player was playing was not "useful"? I think not.
 
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I think stalling is where you are doing something that is not productive. Moving the damage counter is fine, moving it back is also fine, but moving it back to another Slowbro for no reason is stalling. I personally dont think that starring at your hand is stalling, I know some people take a while to think through their strategies, although there are some people that do take too long. A time limit per turn would be nice, but I dont know how realistic that is.

I say just let people begin their matches and DONT give a warning on when it will end, when the judge calls time that is it. I always notice that when a judge gives warning on time, people always either slow down or rush their opponents, because everyone is going to want the last move. Not having a warning time is much better, because that way no one will know when it will be over and wont have the opportunity to stall or rush others.
 
That doesn't work. Any professional staller wears a watch. What they need to do is have a time limit, but when the last five minutes comes along, make it, each player has 3 turns left. That way, NO STALLING AT ALL.
 
Understand that "stalling" comes from the time restriction that is put on a match. Although I understand the resaons why time limits are put on matches, I disagree with the concept. Pokemon is a great fun game.! But at its heart its a competition. And like all competiotions, it is designed to have a winner and a loser. And like any competition, noone feels good when they have a match called because time has run out. Can you imagine a baseball game where the umpires call the game after 3 hours, and whichever team is ahead wins, even though its only in the seventh inning? Now football and basketball matches are good examples of compeititions where a time limit is placed. And yes both sports have a legitimate practice of "stalling" to ensure a win, but the place a restriction on how long you can stall! The shot clock and the play clock! Stalling is a good, honest strategy in winning a match, you just have to control the "stalling" that can occur. So where does this leave us? Why not have matches that require a player to make a move within 75 to 90 seconds? And yes it would be real easy to implement, has anyone seen the timers chess players use in thier matches? Why not set up timers at each match and have your opponent hit the clock at the end of his or her turn, you then know you have 75 to 90 seconds to make your moves. And if time expires before you are finished? Then my friend you have committed a turnover and your turn is done!
 
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Qwert, You hit the nail right on the head. If they had the little Timers that they used in chess tournament that ould reduce stalling By alot.And if they needed the check the timer to see if stalling was being implemented then they could penalize accordingly. They could see if stalling was really there by looking at how long the turn has lasted.


Prime: I like your theory on the turn Idea. I dont think the 3 turn Idea is practicle though. Maybe if they add up the total amount of prizes left and add 2 and thats how many turns are left in the game.That would give each player an equal ammount of chance to win.
But you guys have added some brand new discussion points on the topic of stalling, and I appreciate that.

I Am not posting this to have stalling eliminated. Stalling can be a good way to win. I dont mean Sit and lok at your hand or take a minutes to put a pokemon active. I mean An stall archtype deck. Like the Wailord EX deck. Hey, I have one of those decks. It wins on time most every game that it wins. That is the kind of stalling I am talking about.

Come on people I see the views lets see what u guys think.


Godevoir ;)
 
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When I used to play MTG online they used a game clock for each player. The time limit was for the game. While it was your turn (or while you had priority) the timer was running. If you ran out of time you lost the game. We could easily do the same thing with chess style game clocks.

Give each player twenty minutes on their clock and start the game. You hit the clock to indicate the end of your turn.

If your time runs out you lose.
 
So..........one last comment about stalling. It has to be recognized as a legitimate strategy to be used in match play, you can not penalize a player for using stalling as thier strategy, but you can control the amount of stalling done. End of discussion.
 
Qwert, Good point. But How do you know How much stalling to done if you are a judge. The point of this topic was that in general. Stalling can be a great tactic whenused LEGALLY. But, What is legal stalling but not over used? that is what I am trying to figure out...

Adv1sor:I am not sure that I would liek to see that impemented into Pokemon. That is pretty stiff. 20 minutes is up so you loose the game....:( I could see whne your 20 minutes is done you cannot take attack and take prizes any more, and all u could do is take a turn without taking prizes, but I cant see just losing.

Godevoir

Discuss
 
Implement a time clock to limit how long a turn can last. Simple and direct. Takes care of all the problems! And by the way if you forget to punch the time clock at the end od yor turn, you just allow your opponent more time to stall!
 
The rules say that you should play so that the game can be completed in the time allowed. If you can't or won't do this then you should lose the game. A chess style game clock would easily enforce this and eliminate stalling.
 
I totally agree wityh both of you.That would be an awsome way to impement a more strict stalling penalty.But if your time runs out you shoujldn't loose. I think that they should keep the time limit but introduce the time clock. Thaty way you could record your turn and if a player was staklling they could look at how long it took and how few cards they played .(if both players remembered the cards played)....
 
This brings up a good point.

Stalling is not legal in this game.

The rules say,
Slow Play

Players should attempt to complete their match in the allotted time. It is important for the players to avoid the appearance of cheating or unsportsmanlike conduct, especially when it comes to playing slowly. If the head judge determines that a player is intentionally attempting to stall out a match, it will be considered cheating, and subject to the appropriate penalties.
Click to expand...

Now certainly you can play in such a manner that the head judge cannot call it stalling, but that doesn’t make it a legal play.

If you are playing search cards or doing other legal actions for the sole purpose of running down the clock, then you are intentionally attempting to stall out a match. You may can get away with it, but that doesn’t make it a legal play or strategy.
 
The clock will not chase people away. WHat will chase people away are those that, so far, LEGALLY stall out their oppo's to win or draw, when their overall chance to win the game is nil. Our Worlds 15+ 2nd place winner has stated several times on these boards that he has "stalled out" for victories. Happened in Worlds actually. He got me one time for a draw that way. Bottom line, if you play a certain pace most of the game, then all of a sudden go into the "4 corners offense", you should be warned, then penalized, if you dont finish turn. JMHO As for the slowbro thing, the power is legit, but I would post that nitwit's name in apprentice so that he/she wont get anymore matches with anyone. What a dope!

Keith
 
Advisor, You are hitting the nail right on the head. If it is a Legal play and you are doing it legally than is it really stalling? And whoose to say it is stalling?? you see The Slowbro play may be considered stalling which it should be but it is a legal move. In the quote you just posted it says nothing about legal Moves running down the clock.....


EDIT: LAwman it was Mewtwo_x.... He has been banned on pokegym for a while now but if he gets that moves on you in apprentice he will Say its over, so I have him blocked on AIM and no longer play appr. any more with him.
 
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