Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Sufficient Shuffling

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Otaku

Otaku

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Sufficient Shuffling is referenced in the rules, but as some of the recent threads have made me realize, can be a little tricky to define and...

...I really don't know if I can define it either. So I'll swallow my pride and as others, what are the various legitimate shuffling styles, the illegitimate (or illegal) ones to watch out for, and the "gray" areas ones that either are legal but frowned upon, or where two, competent judges might give opposite rulings on.

I myself favor pile shuffling, but that's usually hard to fit into the middle of a game and far too many people either don't know or just don't perform to some other shuffle before or after to avoid intentional or unintentional weaving/stacking. My time is short so I'll let someone else hammer out the details since for all I know, I've been doing it 'wrong' myself all these years. :rolleyes:
 
I usually do 4-6 mash shuffles mid-game. This is similar to a riffle, but a lot harder on cards and/or sleeves. But it doesn't bend the cards at all.

Pre-game, I'll usually do a 5-pile shuffle, with each of the 5 piles mash-shuffled together 4-6 times each. If I was just deck checked, I'll do this twice.

For my opponents, I'll do a couple mashes when they present the cut. They generally don't mind.
 
If it's the beginning of a game, I either 3 or 7 pile shuffle, followed by 10~20 riffles. If it's the middle of my turn, I do 3~5 riffles. If it's the end of my turn, I just keep shuffling until my opponent ends his turn, unless they just sit there and wait on me, then I just do about 10 riffles.

To keep my cards from bending, I shuffle face down within the game and shuffle face up before and after games (as in inbetween rounds). Occasionally I don't pay attention, and will shuffle face up in my match by accident, but I haven't had an opponent complain yet. But if I realize I'm shuffling face up, then I make sure that my last riffle is face down, so I don't get called for cheating or whatever.
 
When shuffling my opponent's deck, I usually just do 3-5 riffle/mash shuffles followed by a cut(I know they get to cut it back ,but it's habit). When shuffling in between rounds or at the start of a round, I usually 7 pile followed by 6-10 riffles. During a game I tend to riffle/mash 6-10 times unless I am using another card immediately to re-enter my deck, after which I'll do my normal shuffle. I have been known to 'declump' once in awhile, but I don't take forever to do so. If my opponents shuffles my deck at any time, I always cut afterward.
 
At the start of a game, I power shuffle my deck into 8 piles and do it about 2 or 3 times, then I'll shuffle my deck about 2 to 3 time, then let my opponent cut or shuffle.

I feel thats enough for me. As for mid game shuffling, I tend to keep the same shuffle methods all game.
 
To start a game, I do about 5 or 6 mash shuffles, pile once, mash shuffle about 10 times, then maybe repeat that process depending on time given. I tend to just constantly shuffle if I'm just sitting around.

During game, I mash 8 to 10 times whenever I need to shuffle. I get nervous if people don't do about the same.
 
Let's break this down a little further as to what the different methods of shuffling are. I'm taking these from Wikipedia, but if you have any other method that you use, please list what it's called and how it's done.

1. Riffle Shuffle (also called a Dovetail Shuffle)
Deck is halved and the two halves are manipulated using the thumbs to interleave cards back together into one deck. Most common method used in most card games

2. Strip Shuffle (also called Slide Shuffle and Overhand Shuffle)
Deck is held in one hand and packets are moved from the top of the deck to the other hand effectively reversing the order of the deck while distributing the cards randomly. Can also be done by alternating packets to top and bottom of new stack.

3. Pile Shuffle
Cards are distributed into a number of piles (usually 6-8) and then reassembled into one deck. Usually used only before a game because of how long it takes to perform.

4. Wash Shuffle (also called a number of things but mainly Corgi Shuffle and Beginner Shuffle)
Cards are spread out on the table and mixed in a washing method similar to how dominos are randomized. Very rarely used in CCGs because it can easily tear sleeves and assemble cards into the deck upside down as well as due to a general lack of space.

5. Weave Shuffle (also called a Mash Shuffle)
Deck is split into two different stacks and these are pushed together to naturally interleave the cards back together.

6. Japanese Shuffle
Not a true method of randomization, packets of cards are taken from the center of the deck and added to the top quickly and repeatedly. This leaves the bottom of the deck relatively untouched and should be avoided.

If anyone else can come up with any others they can be added to the list, but that just gives a general idea of what different techniques are commonly used. My personal opinion is that players should mix at least two of these into their shuffling pattern to help create a better randomization of the deck. The Riffle and Weave Shuffles can leave the same card on the top of the deck if the shuffler is not careful. The Strip Shuffle leaves packets of cards undisturbed and can allow unscrupulous players to stack their decks to a degree.

Here's an example of what I mean in the previous paragraph, when I start a game, I generally 8-pile shuffle my deck followed by several weave shuffles. The Pile shuffle breaks up clusters of cards well, and the Weave shuffle then randomizes the order of the cards. I also weave together the piles of the deck as I reintegrate it trying not to weave stacks that are next to each other. Mid-game I'll weave shuffle a number of time with a strip shuffle occasionally thrown in to move around the top of the deck.
 
If its the very first game of a tourney, I'll usually do pile followed by a wash. Subsequent games I'll only use a pile. Other than that every shuffle I do will always end with an overhand, riffle and a cut from my opponent. Weave and Japanese shuffle are the ones I frown upon because randomization is poor compared to most others. The only problem with imposing rules on shuffling is that juniors and some seniors tend to be very poor at handling a deck of cards, especially if its sleaved.
 
bullados said:
I usually do 4-6 mash shuffles mid-game. This is similar to a riffle, but a lot harder on cards and/or sleeves. But it doesn't bend the cards at all.
Click to expand...

Aren't they exactly the same, except you're picking the deck up to mash?
 
I Pile shuffle after every game I play, so that my deck is quite randomised before every game.

I always pile shuffle before any game, infront of my opponent so they can see this, after this I will riffle shuffle a few times, then mash a little bit and offer my deck to be cut.

During game however when my deck requires a shuffle I will normally riffle 1-2 times and maybe a mash. As long as I have had a nice big shuffle at the start of each game to make sure my deck is all mixed up I normally don't shuffle to hardout in game.
 
bullados said:
I usually do 4-6 mash shuffles mid-game. This is similar to a riffle, but a lot harder on cards and/or sleeves. But it doesn't bend the cards at all....
Click to expand...
Ness said:
Aren't they exactly the same, except you're picking the deck up to mash?
Click to expand...

I've always wondered. My instinct is that a riffle shuffle is more thorough than a mash shuffle because:

(a) There seems to be more intertwining of the two stacks in a good riffle shuffle. Sometimes the edges of two adjacent sleeves curl together; they are unlikely to separate in a mash shuffle but can be pulled apart in a riffle shuffle.

(b) With a riffle shuffle it's easier to control the top/bottom so that the two halves intertwine very near the top and bottom (with a mash shuffle there are often a series of cards at the top or bottom of one half which do not get intertwined, and thus are still in the same order). But on the other hand, mash shuffling is much quicker than riffle shuffling, at least for me, so more shuffles can be done in the same amount of time. Perhaps mash shufflers should quickly cut their deck between each mash shuffle, but it might look strange if you saw somebody doing that.
 
Ness said:
Aren't they exactly the same, except you're picking the deck up to mash?
Click to expand...

Mash and Riffle are indistinguishable except by looking at the shape the cards are in over the long term. And I would never mash a deck without sleeves, but would riffle it if I had to shuffle.

6 or so of either is sufficient mid game and I can do it in about 10 s.
 
Pre-game, I will 6-pile shuffle at least once. I believe this adequately distributes a discarded evolution line from a previous game. Then I will at the very least riffle shuffle twice, than overhand shuffle a bunch of times sloppily, meaning some of the cards land on top, some of them get cut into the deck.

Mid-game, I'll usually limit it to just two riffle shuffles to speed the game along. I believe the opponent's cut is the most important thing that dictates your next drawn card, because you're going to reshuffle again soon enough.
 
I like a mixture of shuffles pre game (when I get a chance to play in a tourney!) I like to 6 pile shuffle. Take piles from oppo sides and riffle those together, then after those now 3 piles are sitting there, stack them up in a deck. I then proceed to either 6 pile shuffle again and/or riffle/weave shuffle a few more times. Sometimes, I even throw in a bit of a "strip shuffle".

Mid game, I usually use multiple riffles and/or weave shuffles. Those are the quickest IMO for a mid game shuffle to randomize a deck well.

Keith
 
Note: There are two ways to riffle shuffle:

Top to top, like you normally see people doing with an unsleeve 52-card deck.
This puts half the cards upside down. It also leads to sleeves getting ripped as cards are partially inserted into the open ends of sleeves during the suffle.

Side to side: A little difficult to do with unsleeved cards due to the narrowness of the card compared to the length, but there is no real benefit to doing it with unsleeved cards anyway.
Not difficult to do with sleeved cards with a small amount of practice.
This virtually eliminates sleeves getting ripped as the open ends do not come in contact with other cards. Much easier on the cards and sleeves than the "mash" shuffle with virtually identical results, if not better.
 
Before each match, my dad and I each do what we call a power shuffle.

We divide the deck into three sections: Pokemon, TSS, and energies, substituting cards into piles meaningfully till each stack has 20 cards(for example we would put a Communication into the Pokemon pile, but not an Energy Search.)

Then we shuffle each pile using pile, rifle, or mash. Then we place the top card of each stack onto what will eventually becomes the deck. We then rifle or mash the final deck anywhere from 6 to 8 times as soon as we finish, then 3 to 4 more times when we get to our seat.
 
I like to make my deck as random as possible, so I will do 5 or 6 riffle shuffles, then look through my deck. If it isn't random enough, I'll do 2 or 3 more riffles, and continue this pattern until I see that it is random enough.
Posted with Mobile style...
 
cpeterik said:
I like to make my deck as random as possible, so I will do 5 or 6 riffle shuffles, then look through my deck. If it isn't random enough, I'll do 2 or 3 more riffles, and continue this pattern until I see that it is random enough.
Posted with Mobile style...
Click to expand...

Once you look at your deck, it is no longer "random"! You need to start over with the riffles at that point. Do you not understand "random"? It is not knowing the ordering in your deck. You destroy that when you look in your deck.

If you got nothing out of the "declump" thread, everyone agreed on this issue. (At least I thought so)

Keith
 
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