why is pointing out the very real RL legal and other issues that must be taken into consideration, assumed to be 'hate'?
Suggestion for PTOs: Update round pairings and standings via your website
- Thread starter ryanvergel
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Because MOM its never presented like that a positive response to an issue would be
1.) I like your idea...but here are some problems with implementing it...
2.) Here are my suggestions with improving your idea...
To be bluntly honest mom it sometimes hard to have a constructive conversation with you because I feel your position is always what you feel TPCI is regardless of the issue.
Had Dave or Brad come on here and suggested this you would be praising them on their amazing idea and boldness on moving the game forward.
1.) I like your idea...but here are some problems with implementing it...
2.) Here are my suggestions with improving your idea...
To be bluntly honest mom it sometimes hard to have a constructive conversation with you because I feel your position is always what you feel TPCI is regardless of the issue.
Had Dave or Brad come on here and suggested this you would be praising them on their amazing idea and boldness on moving the game forward.
NoPoke
Active Member
Please don't take this as a negative, I'd like to see less pressure to get to the pairings board as much as anyone.
TPCi really are constrained by their lawyers. Argue that it is good or bad all you like but don't pretend it is anything but the case that people sue. Log in to pokemon.com and go look at your match history, unless you are an admin or the organiser you wont see any names at all for your opponents: not even initials!
To those who take the output from TOM and process it and publish it be careful not to attract the attention of the lawyers. I'm sure there is a way of making this work without involving POP/TPCi but a mistake by anyone could easily result in a general ban being issued from above on such use. I DON'T WANT THAT.
Dave or Brad wont come on here and say anything nor do I want them too as it would probably be bad for us. I'd love for an update to the pokemon site to allow players to view their pairings and results for the event in which they are currently playing. That would seem like the best case outcome.
TPCi really are constrained by their lawyers. Argue that it is good or bad all you like but don't pretend it is anything but the case that people sue. Log in to pokemon.com and go look at your match history, unless you are an admin or the organiser you wont see any names at all for your opponents: not even initials!
To those who take the output from TOM and process it and publish it be careful not to attract the attention of the lawyers. I'm sure there is a way of making this work without involving POP/TPCi but a mistake by anyone could easily result in a general ban being issued from above on such use. I DON'T WANT THAT.
Dave or Brad wont come on here and say anything nor do I want them too as it would probably be bad for us
. I'd love for an update to the pokemon site to allow players to view their pairings and results for the event in which they are currently playing. That would seem like the best case outcome.Mystery Thing
Administrator
Where in this thread has anybody said it was a stupid idea? Nowhere. OF COURSE it's a good idea, and everybody has agreed that it is - in theory. But that doesn't change that there is still an overwhelming legal concern; large enough that it makes it more or less unfeasible right now.
FirestormXVI
Member
I honestly wouldn't mind at all if it was a Masters-only thing. It would be a good enough start. COPPA only restricts us from using personal information of under 13s, yes?
Air Cutter looks awesome by the way.
Air Cutter looks awesome by the way.
psychup2034
New Member
why is pointing out the very real RL legal and other issues that must be taken into consideration, assumed to be 'hate'?
Because it comes from individuals why typically (1) are opponents of ideas that alter the status quo (2) are opponents of ideas that are in opposition with what TPCi/OP is doing. Both of these factors give Jay a reason to label some comments here as 'hate.'
Instead of focusing on figuring out how to overcome the "very real real life legal and other issues" in order to make this great idea a possibility, some people insist on labeling this idea as "unfeasible." Pointing out that there are real legal issues with this idea is fine. Now help us figure out how we could overcome these issues.
For example, one such way to overcome this issue is to upload a first name, last initial, and a player ID. This may not work for Juniors (as some are too young), but I'm pretty sure that Seniors and Masters are able to identify a 6-digit number associated with themselves if there are people there with the same first name and last initial.
It's very discouraging when someone has a great idea, and the purported authority figures on the 'gym (the forum moderators) are quick to find ways reasons why that idea is unfeasible instead of being proactive in helping the community brainstorm ways that the challenges can be overcome. It's very discouraging.
Diaz
New Member
Why can they post pairings for Worlds and not for other events?
Edit: This is what I'm talking about:
http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2012/results/tcg/#0_0_0
They even include first and last names for juniors.
Edit: This is what I'm talking about:
http://www.pokemonworldchampionships.com/2012/results/tcg/#0_0_0
They even include first and last names for juniors.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Nope. We're not allowed to publish player IDs, and especially not alongside the names associated with them.
Don't the players/parents have to sign their lives away when they check in? (Honest question, I've never been there when players have been checking in)
psychup2034
New Member
Nope. I literally walked to the desk, they asked for my name, I filled out a slip (no signature, just name and some other indo), they checked off a list on a clipboard, and they handed me my "Worlds Competitor" badge. However, I am over 18 now.
When I attended Worlds when I was 15 and 16, I went by myself. My parent certainly didn't sign anything either.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Oh, ok. Well I don't know then. But I know that we're not allowed to be that loose with names.
There's only two ways I see this being allowed for use not-TPCI PTOs:
1) TOM is rewritten to have an option to strip down the last names to an initial. Knowing how much of spaghetti and black magic is required to keep it working right now, I don't see that happening.
2) The TO gets and keeps a stack of waivers for literally every single minor in the tournament that gives them permission to UL their names. While I suppose this is probably technically doable, there is absolutely no chance in heck that I (or probably anybody else) would go through the time and effort required to get those done up and to make sure that you have them for every single player, especially when one little slip up and somebody could sue you.
King Piplup
Active Member
No, when you check in you sign nothing. However, I'm fairly sure you waive such rights when you accept the invitation.
psychup2034
New Member
I'm not sure what language TOM is written in, but stripping down to a last initial is a very simple 1 line of code in most (if not all) programming languages. For example, in VB:
Code:
=MID(A1,FIND(" ",A1,1)+1,1)&"."Then, just change the outputs to link to the first name and last initial. Voila. This will literally take someone familiar with the TOM code 15-30 minutes to do (and error check).
psychup2034
New Member
Its taken me three years to get the UK masters able to write down their dates of birth correctly.. remembering their player ID (or more likely the last four digits) could be too much to expect
Every player must remember or look up their player ID at some point when they fill out their decklist. Because the player ID currently is not a vital part of the tournament process, players can just look it up when they're filling out decklists and then forget it immediately. However, if player IDs became important for looking up table numbers online, players will start remembering it.
For example, at the beginning of Battle Roads, most people didn't know what set number Shiny Rayquaza was. By the end of 6 weeks of Battle Roads, pretty much everyone that played a Rayeels deck knew that Shiny Rayquaza was DRX 128. When a piece of information becomes salient/necessary enough, people will start to remember it.
When we start the process of uploading table numbers online, there will still be a paper form available, so it's not like someone who has no idea what their player ID is won't be able to find their next opponent.
In the US, the last 4 digits, unfortunately, would not be a unique identifier. :frown:
---------- Post added 11/08/2012 at 01:08 PM ----------
Sure. Then what about first initial and last name? It's very unlikely for there to be duplicates of a first initial and last name, and even if there is, those people can just look at the printed pairings. Moreover, posting first initial, last name, and current record is possible as well.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
The point of cutting it down to a first name / last initial isn't just to cut down one of the names, it's to cut out the last name. It's a whole lot easier to track down somebody if you have "X Yyyyyyyy" than if you have "Xxxxxxx Y."
psychup2034
New Member
The point of cutting it down to a first initial / last name isn't to make it easier to track down somebody. It is to cut down one of the names to get around the legal roadblocks.
What I'm trying to get a response to is whether a first initial / last name combination is legal.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
I would be shocked if it isn't, and that's why.
The only way I see this ever realistically happening is if somebody wrote a script to take the HTML file that TOM spits out (or I suppose the XML, although then you would also have to have your script calculate the match records - not too crazy complicated, but it is extra work), eat the last names, and then hand it back in a format that phones can more easily display (the current HTML output is fine for printing, but really isn't buckets of fun to look at on a phone).
Even then, I wouldn't do it unless we were green-lighted, and based on the "if you don't want the answer, don't ask" rule, I doubt we would get clearance anyway. But yeah, realistically, don't expect to get any help from TOM.
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