TCG rules change with release of X/Y...?

[Raen]

It goes both ways - with no water-fuelled sniper, now it's much harder for the Blastie player to pick off bench-dwelling Garbadors that massively cripple the deck.

Eh, Tool Scrapper is just as good as killing Garbodor for Blastoise. With roughly 3 extra slots in Blastoise now with the loss of Catcher (certainly not worth the space in Blastoise), Blastoies can EASILY run 3 Tool Scrapper to essentially hard-counter Garbodor decks. Really, the only thing left standing in Blastoise's way is Virizion/Genesect, and I'm still not a believer in that deck.

Another thought: I've heard people calling for TPCi to ban Tropical Beach due to the first turn rule change, but I admit that, while I can't afford them, I like what Tropical Beach adds to the format. I think what I'd love to see from TPCi is allowing people to use foreign language - and maybe even World Championship deck - version of Tropical Beach, and ONLY Tropical Beach. Would open it up to a lot more people, and drive the price down dramatically.

Won't happen, but I can dream!

 

[PKM4]

It's also going to be interesting to see how stage 2 decks do during Regionals when it's best of 3 matches in Swiss with a 50 minute time limit. Blastoise may be good and helped with the changes but if best of 3 and 50 min limit in Swiss continue I see it struggling a bit against faster decks.

 

[Tash]

I assume that turn-ending effects will also be unusable on the first turn, along with attacks. I think Beach is the only thing in Modified that would qualify, though.

 

[losjackal]

Remember they're designing rules for a children's card game. They need to be easy to understand. "If you go first, you can't attack" is easy.

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

I would want the first turn rule to just prevent Damage/Status changes to the opponents pokemon. That way, you are allowed to use setup attacks like "call for family" first turn. Otherwise, this just kills the idea of using setup pokemon.

 

[vaporeon]

I would want the first turn rule to just prevent Damage/Status changes to the opponents pokemon. That way, you are allowed to use setup attacks like "call for family" first turn. Otherwise, this just kills the idea of using setup pokemon.

It can still work so long they print on the card "You can use this attack if you go first"

 

[Scizor]

This fits the theme with Pokemon lately: For every good decision there are multiple bad ones. Making Catcher a flip is such a bad idea. The last time we had a format with Reversal it was pretty bad. Making a new Juniper with the same text and not allowing us to use 4 of it and Juniper is also a horrible decision. The draw is terrible and stale in this format and you won't even allow us to use more of it? T1 rule is a good idea, but is mitigated by these other two dumb decisions.

 

[losjackal]

It can still work so long they print on the card "You can use this attack if you go first"

Sure, but that's a fair amount of effort so that set up attacks can still work but damage/status attack cannot.

Remember they design these cards for fun. We take it to another level and compete with them. Think about any game...people would love to change the rules in a certain way to suit their personal preference. But in the end, it's just the rules of the game. Players figure out a way.

The last time we had a format with Reversal it was pretty bad.

I'd like to counter your logic here. Before Pokemon Catcher, when was the last time the game had a card with that effect? Gust of Wind in Base Set. There were many years of good formats in between.

 

[trainerjeff]

I don't understand why everyone is throwing a fit about these changes, they will only make the game more balanced out and less luck based. The turn one rule is a god send in a time of big basics and EX's you can end up doing 90+ damage on turn 1 for an easy donk if your opponent got a bad hand. this is what this rule is solely made for. The only other option that they could of done was go back to the old days of not being able to play trainers or supporters on the first players turn, but id rather just not be able to attack so i can get set up.


everyone should be rushing to the street to celebrate the nerfing of catcher and i wish they would of done it earlier. People will say there is less skill involved now, but their was less skill involved with that. just let me make my opponent switch his main with any of my choosing so i can hit him hard. how is that skill? maybe a little distrubtion, but we finally get a chance to have a almost worry free bench now. Back in the storm front days, this one card would of completely changed the format because people probably wouldn't be playing claydol in fear of it only being up for one or two turns before taking a free prize.

On the last annoying thing people are complaining about are beaches. If putting a beach or two in your deck because you have 1 turn you cannot attack seems like a logical step , then more power to you. i'll just put one or two cards, that are worth more value on 99% of my other turns and save myself quite a bit of money for something the majority of time won't have its intended effect, specially since vir bank and frozen city running around.

I welcome the changes and glad they are moving back to a more balance game play and bring actual skill back into the game instead of just fearing if player one gets a perfect hand the possible turn 1 donk.

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

they will only make the game more balanced out and less luck based. \

Turn One rule I agree makes it less luck based. Catcher rule makes it entirely luck based.

 

[Tagrineth]

The only time Reversal was ever an issue was when it was in the same format as Junk Arm.

 

[homeofmew]

well the sycamore thing only hints at a future x/y rotation.
catcher better have an errata, because no one's gonna buy reversals.
The No attacking thing isn't bad, but it makes going second a lot better for big basics, and going first good if you evolve.
Not to mention the price of beach will go up.

 

[SMP88]

I don't understand why everyone is throwing a fit about these changes, they will only make the game more balanced out and less luck based. The turn one rule is a god send in a time of big basics and EX's you can end up doing 90+ damage on turn 1 for an easy donk if your opponent got a bad hand. this is what this rule is solely made for. The only other option that they could of done was go back to the old days of not being able to play trainers or supporters on the first players turn, but id rather just not be able to attack so i can get set up.


everyone should be rushing to the street to celebrate the nerfing of catcher and i wish they would of done it earlier. People will say there is less skill involved now, but their was less skill involved with that. just let me make my opponent switch his main with any of my choosing so i can hit him hard. how is that skill? maybe a little distrubtion, but we finally get a chance to have a almost worry free bench now. Back in the storm front days, this one card would of completely changed the format because people probably wouldn't be playing claydol in fear of it only being up for one or two turns before taking a free prize.

On the last annoying thing people are complaining about are beaches. If putting a beach or two in your deck because you have 1 turn you cannot attack seems like a logical step , then more power to you. i'll just put one or two cards, that are worth more value on 99% of my other turns and save myself quite a bit of money for something the majority of time won't have its intended effect, specially since vir bank and frozen city running around.

I welcome the changes and glad they are moving back to a more balance game play and bring actual skill back into the game instead of just fearing if player one gets a perfect hand the possible turn 1 donk.

Beach is already used in most setup decks because they can't do anything turn 1 anyway. Getting an extra couple cards for the first turn or 2 is incredibly helpful in the long run

 

[khit]

Remember they're designing rules for a children's card game. They need to be easy to understand. "If you go first, you can't attack" is easy.

I can't buy this argument any more, It's like a cancer to the pokemon TCG, kids aren't even playing the game, they look at the pretty pictures, and if they are it's almost certainly not by the official rules. I bet most kids don't know where to look to find the rules even if they want to. (In the theme decks!) Masters is way bigger than any other age group. I say it's time pokemon start designing the game for the people actually playing it.

 

[rt24]

The only time Reversal was ever an issue was when it was in the same format as Junk Arm.

Not to mention in the format with luxchomp, reversal wasn't played period. People would rather run a 1-1 or 2-2 line of luxray than use reversals. In this format we have genesect ex as well as ninetales. 2 options, not just 1. I don't see anybody playing catcher anymore, instead they would run one of these techs if they want the ability.

Also, it is possible to play this game without catcher...it's not a necessity. I've played in a format with catcher and without catcher, and I by far prefer the no-catcher format.

 

[TheRolesWePlay]

I'm personally kinda torn on the whole Catcher errata. It's nice that it isn't as abusive, but at the same time that virtually leaves the bench untouchable, between Mr. Mime and the lack of decent heavy snipe the only real ways to touch the bench are lines of Genesect and Ninetails, which can start to weigh down on the deck. It'll be interesting to see how things develop, but all I know is that fire types and Escape Rope keep on looking better.

As for not attacking T1, I will miss my usual Call for Family, but not having to worry about T1 Kyurem/Landorus/etc. is a nice consolation.

Also I scratch my head at people getting upset at Sycamore, they're obviously trying to make it a standard, and there's no way that Juniper is getting another printing since she isn't in XY. It's a simple replacement nothing more, not much to get upset about.

 

[tonenkyra]

Catcher only seemed broken because it was a card used to bring forth whatever menacing pokemon a player had on the bench at a time. This errata requiring a coin flip is going to be vastly appreciated due to allowing other decks of other calibers shine a bit. IE dusknoir, flareon, my mewgor , and some other good (but not great due to catcher) decks! This is going to be exciting and I look forward to other decks start gallivanting on a competitive level!

Also, I am most looking forward to this change of first turn rules as I played at a time when first player of the game could not play certain trainers or attack or something to that nature. Now it will actually require some strength of skill and not luck!

Yay, TPCi for actually listening to many of us who have complained about this broken and speedy format. You guys should give yourselves a pat on the back. And for those of you complaining about these changes after asking for them, should be ashamed of yourselves! Nonetheless, I hope something can be done to somewhat make trop beach less usable or more controlled to some extent. Now don't get me wrong guys, I play a Blasdeo deck that has no beaches eek: its due to the price and I refuse to drop the current price on 1 card and it will only increase in price with this rule change) but only because I love water pokemon and I have loved squirtle/blastoise since base days!

Phew, rant officially done! Thanks for reading!

 

[Mattrd08]

I hate the no attack on 1st turn and the nerfed catcher. These are totally going to screw up the game.

The Juniper/Sycamore thing is understandable though. Once Juniper is rotated out, Sycamore will be there to retain the effect. Until then, being able to only run one makes sense because otherwise you can basically have 8 of the same card.

 

[GoldenSwablu]

How I feel about this change really depends on how the X and Y sets will be. If they make Stage 2s stronger than basics than this will be an interesting change, especially if cards like Ditto BCR are (still) in the format. Pokemon Catcher's change is sort of weird because it becomes (one of?) the only item/supporter card other than PokeBall and Hooligans Jim and Cas NXD-PLB that does completely nothing with tails. Flips are definitely going to make a comback with this change. If they don't rotate, Genesect will probably become a much stronger tech for its ability in decks with Plasma Energy. Personally this change makes me hopeful of the return of decks that attack with stage 2s, but the inability to use any attacks on the very first turn of the game will have some interesting effects. Hopefully they take this opportunity to slow the game down a bit.

 

[losjackal]

I can't buy this argument any more, It's like a cancer to the pokemon TCG, kids aren't even playing the game, they look at the pretty pictures, and if they are it's almost certainly not by the official rules. I bet most kids don't know where to look to find the rules even if they want to. (In the theme decks!) Masters is way bigger than any other age group. I say it's time pokemon start designing the game for the people actually playing it.

I think you're mixing two demographics. Do you think Masters who play competitively spend more money on cards than children who don't? (Note I have no numbers to prove my point, but I'm curious what your initial presumption is.)