The case for pre-releases
- Thread starter rokman
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That sounds interesting, though one thing a tournament setting (as opposed to a league setting) does it introduces new players to a tournament setting. I know Battle Roads are intended to do this as well, but having prereleases as another source to educate new players to a tournament setting is a huge plus. I wouldn't like to see the prerelease changed to more of a league type setting, if players want to play their friends they can play at league, on PTCGO, playtcg.me, and before and after any tournament.
z-man said:
Not quite exactly I'm saying. Having one event (the non-sealed draft event) advertised more then the other event (the sealed event), would glorify one event and turn the other into a side event in the players eyes. What I am suggesting is a Prerelease w/ 2 main events, 2 options for drafts for players to play in. Both events advertised together and equally as one another.
ryanvergel
New Member
Just flip flop things.
Give me 8 packs up front. Give me the promo and the deckbox at the end when I turn in energies.
This makes MORE SENSE. I get to build a BETTER deck. It makes the tournament MORE FUN because your booster amount increases 33%. You go from 6->8, which is a lot. The TO can still have security in preventing scamming/boosting (people entering and dropping to get the "bonus" of cheaper prices (this is arguably moot anyways, since the days of prizes and super cheap entrance fees are gone) by withholding the promo and deckbox until after the tournament.
This is such an easy thing to implement and would make the entire tournament more fun. It would be a lot more balanced.
Give me 8 packs up front. Give me the promo and the deckbox at the end when I turn in energies.
This makes MORE SENSE. I get to build a BETTER deck. It makes the tournament MORE FUN because your booster amount increases 33%. You go from 6->8, which is a lot. The TO can still have security in preventing scamming/boosting (people entering and dropping to get the "bonus" of cheaper prices (this is arguably moot anyways, since the days of prizes and super cheap entrance fees are gone) by withholding the promo and deckbox until after the tournament.
This is such an easy thing to implement and would make the entire tournament more fun. It would be a lot more balanced.
ShadowCard
Active Member
Didn't you say something similar about battle roads?can't ONE event series be casual and just for fun?
I would like to agree with this. It is tactfully worded and I feel like captures a sentiment that everyone feels about prereleases.
However, by not making prereleases a positive experience for these participants in organized play, I think you are turning more people away. Cutting your nose off to spite your face.
:clap:
Some PTOs see the afterdraft as part of the prerelease experience.
@ryan: and how many players would just 'disappear' during deckbuilding if all 8 packs were given out up front?
Unless the promo card is good than I would say not a lot.
z-man
New Member
Isn't that pretty much admitting that prereleases, in their current state, are unfun? Why should we bribe players to stay? If the touranment and format is fun and worthwhile, they'll stay regardless of what is being held at the end of the event. Giving all 8 packs upfront would definitely make the event more fun (how much it would help... I don't know). If they do leave, either something came up, or the players would rather be somewhere else. If many players don't want to play in the tournament, there's probably an issue with the tournament itself.
LucarioLvlX
New Member
I ran a prerelease yesterday in a small store where 24 players showed up. Half of them were juniors and seniors and the other half were very young masters. Everybody had a great time, one junior got a shiny secret rare, an Ace Spec and a Full Art EX in his first six packs! They loved opening the packs, sorting through the cards and playing 3 games. Afterwards more than half of them stayed and compared cards and did some wheeling and dealing. Nobody asked for any prizes and the store owner was obviously thrilled with the full house and all the other stuff he sold to the parents who were hanging around. In fact he gained one new customer who is a collector of old, rare comic books. A great event for everyone who was there. The only "pro"player there was the young man helping me run the event!:thumb:
ryanvergel
New Member
That's why I offered the other portion-
they don't get a promo or a deckbox. Give 7 and keep 1 and the promo and deckbox- that has to be enough to deter.
It's not even wise to get people to go to a PR for you, get packs and drop. Even with 8. You're getting them 1-2 weeks before market release with much higher prices than just buying a box. You can get a box for 90/95, and if that's 3 PR entrances, or 24 packs. There isn't enough cost/benefit even with 8 packs at 30 bucks to "accumulate" a collection" in this manner.
It's not economically savvy to drop, it can be really curtailed in terms of value (even doing a 7/1 ration, a FURTHER compromise on a compromise), you right now get the promo and deck box up front. They used to offer 10 packs, but went to 8, and I always assumed it was because you now got a deckbox. You always got a promo. Deckbox, -2 packs. Fine. But if you hold the promo AND the deckbox, isn't that worth more than the 2 packs you get? Couldn't you do 7/1 and still make it MORE detrimental to drop?
the problem with players taking off prior to round 1 is: among other things, it affects PTOs ability to order for the next prerelease. a player who is not in the TOM file as participating in the tourney doesn't "count".
not to mention the fact that PTOs are not allowed to sell product...which is what essentially happens when players take the product and leave without participating in the tourney.
oh, and why would your FLGS want to have a PTO hold an 'event' in their store if all that is really happening is players are buying product early, competing with the store's bottom line?
not to mention the fact that PTOs are not allowed to sell product...which is what essentially happens when players take the product and leave without participating in the tourney.
oh, and why would your FLGS want to have a PTO hold an 'event' in their store if all that is really happening is players are buying product early, competing with the store's bottom line?
ShadowCard
Active Member
Players can buy cards anywhere. However, to get decent numbers at a prerelease, you rely on a loyal following of customers which is gained by selling a positive experience. However, as it is now, PTOs bribe players to stay 3 rounds. If you only required 1 round, they'd leave after that too. :frown:
Giving the players the deck box before deck construction helps them not lose their cards. It is an event where players haven't had time to sort the extra cards away into their boxes and binders so the deck box is an easy temproary storeage during the event.
An alternative to prereleases is the second time it has been mentioned in this thread. BJJ763 said on page one "If you want prizes, do a draft." It is extremely poor customer service to say "if you don't like it, go elsewhere."
I really would not like it to come to boycotting prereleases. If you do feel like boycotting a prerelease, please let the PTO know your concerns before you do. Those of us who staff events do notice who shows up and we do notice when you are absent. Do not just vanish on us because any reason could keep you away. At least let us know it wasn't bad customer service or some other staff-to-player negative experience that turned you away but instead that you, as SD PokeMom put it, "feel the event isn't 'worth it.'"
Does it really matter what kind of deck you make? Couldn't you just scoop after drawing a card on your first turn? It's a prerelease--the games do not matter.
Giving the players the deck box before deck construction helps them not lose their cards. It is an event where players haven't had time to sort the extra cards away into their boxes and binders so the deck box is an easy temproary storeage during the event.
:nonono:
An alternative to prereleases is the second time it has been mentioned in this thread. BJJ763 said on page one "If you want prizes, do a draft." It is extremely poor customer service to say "if you don't like it, go elsewhere."
I really would not like it to come to boycotting prereleases. If you do feel like boycotting a prerelease, please let the PTO know your concerns before you do. Those of us who staff events do notice who shows up and we do notice when you are absent. Do not just vanish on us because any reason could keep you away. At least let us know it wasn't bad customer service or some other staff-to-player negative experience that turned you away but instead that you, as SD PokeMom put it, "feel the event isn't 'worth it.'"
jaws_is_ra
Member
At the Pre-release I use to go to it was $25 for the Prerelease (8 Packs) then $15 for the after draft (6 packs) so $40 for 14 packs. I use to pay for my Mom to enter also so $80 for 28 packs
3.99 x 28 = 111.72 before tax if I went to the store and bought the same amount
Its now
$90 for 28 packs but still cheaper then the store.
3.99 x 28 = 111.72 before tax if I went to the store and bought the same amount
Its now
$90 for 28 packs but still cheaper then the store.
ShadowCard
Active Member
Prizes based on performance cannot be given away but would people be more comfortable with playing $30 or even closer to retail if it meant TPCi including door prizes such as playmats, leftover promos from previous series events, or even a backpack, that are raffled away among all players?
Otaku
Active Member
Things I have learned from this thread:
1) Tax laws in the United States of America are even worse than I realized.
2) Pre-releases need some reforms.
3) Pokémon, especially if they want to increase their presence (and profits) in card shops, needs to consider the appeal of competitive "Limited" formats.
TCGs are literally a product trying to invent and increase demand. Limited events do that, and when properly handled provide something non-big-box-retailers can offer even if they can't compete with major retailer's prices. I've been real hard on the game for having so much filler, but if the product is being designed to appeal to Collector, Constructed Format Play, and Limited Play it is a lot less objectionable, perhaps even desirable.
Otherwise, Pre-Releases really need to feature theme decks, and we should be seeing more than two per set. I know, normally that is a "separate" thing: I am stating that needs to change.
1) Tax laws in the United States of America are even worse than I realized.
2) Pre-releases need some reforms.
3) Pokémon, especially if they want to increase their presence (and profits) in card shops, needs to consider the appeal of competitive "Limited" formats.
TCGs are literally a product trying to invent and increase demand. Limited events do that, and when properly handled provide something non-big-box-retailers can offer even if they can't compete with major retailer's prices. I've been real hard on the game for having so much filler, but if the product is being designed to appeal to Collector, Constructed Format Play, and Limited Play it is a lot less objectionable, perhaps even desirable.
Otherwise, Pre-Releases really need to feature theme decks, and we should be seeing more than two per set. I know, normally that is a "separate" thing: I am stating that needs to change.
I only require 1 round.
Nobody drops from my PRs.
I have about 66% stay for the afterdraft.
I always give away packs of the new set as door prizes at my PRs.
KazamBolt
Active Member
id be willing to bet that you are the exception, not the rule. we have no door prizes at my prereleases and i dont blame my TOs for that. however, if there were enough door prizes that say 50% got some, id be more apt to attend. Pokemon players love gambling and showing up hoping for door prizes is essentially that.
z-man
New Member
That's certainly quite the issue. It makes sense that you want players to finish the tournament, then. I'd recommend that TPCi count players by the # who entered as opposed to the # of players who finish the event, but we really can't change that too much, can we?
Even so, holding product as a bribe isn't, in my opinion, the best way to go. If the tournament is legitimately fun, the players will -want- to continue playing as much as they can, bribe or not. Getting 8 packs from the start would make the tournament more fun IMO because it'd give players better decks to play with. Better decks are typically more fun to play than worse decks. Awarding random goodness and giving prizes at the end typically get players to -want- to play as opposed to feeling forced to play. We're simply saying that Prereleases should be more fun.
As far as door prizes, very few prereleases I've been to have had door prizes or random goodness. From my experience, Pokepop is the exception to the rule. That being said, he's able to boast about great success, so his tournaments are definitely a case we should learn from.
ShadowCard
Active Member
PokePop, you are going to revolutionize prereleases.
After your posts in a previous thread, I hinted that I wanted to try an afterdraft again after having abandoned it years ago.
After your posts in a previous thread, I hinted that I wanted to try an afterdraft again after having abandoned it years ago.
Perhaps this contributes to your high rate of players who stick around after round 1?
but boosters for door prizes?
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