Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!

[DragonClyne725]

Correct me more experienced players than me, but doesn't the double voter role quite often go to the wolves to help even out the playing field?

For now

VOTE: PMysterious

Double voter is a neutral role that can be either Town or Wolf (according to Mafiascum). Not sure which way it "often" goes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@PMysterious:

If you really want your mind to be blown, it can go even higher than a double vote. In other words, I can go up to 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and even 10.

If you are going to claim having a certain role, at least provide an explanation. Are you saying that the weight of your vote increases each Day? Then why would you have a double vote Day 3, and only a single vote Day 1?

Mod: Can you bring up a vote count please? It would be useful right now.

Why would you ask for a vote count, when you knew it would expose you as a double voter (or, whatever you are claiming to be)? You only had three votes and the Day is still young, I'm not seeing the need you would have had to role claim.

Care to explain?

 

[scorri]

scorri blinks. scorri stares at the thread. scorri wonders why in the world someone would claim when they had three votes on them and maybe one more being indicated as a possibility. scorri sees no reason for this, especially when all it does if PM is town is put a huge target on PM at night. scorri also thinks that the way PM is being all skirting around his claim is odd as well. scorri thinks that at this point PM just needs to explain everything about the voting portion of his role so that PM doesn't have the chance to pull out a nasty unexpected trick with it.

 

[dave628]

I wonder if PMysterious' ability is n-1 vote, where n is day number. ie: day 3 would means 3-1 = 2 votes.
PMysterious, is that what you are implying or are you bluffing or overstating your ability?

 

[PMysterious]

I wonder if PMysterious' ability is n-1 vote, where n is day number. ie: day 3 would means 3-1 = 2 votes.
PMysterious, is that what you are implying or are you bluffing or overstating your ability?

If that was the case, my vote would have been at 0 on Day 1. So, incorrect.

DC725: Pressure sometimes leads to my favor. I could card less as my vote gets higher and higher every time.

Also, waynegg. I really got to give you credit, why I'm giving you this this credit is because now, you have put Vablakes at 3. Sure, I'm at 4, but I don't really care. I'm confirmed. However, currently, I'm worthless, but late-game, I can actually help the Town win. I have a sense of aura like Lucario. Early on, I look like a weak player, but as the game goes on, I get stronger and stronger and trust me, soon, I'll be the one that saves the Town from certain defeat. If you thought that was SS7's job, that was 3 games ago, in no way is he going to help you. The Werewolves know 10 times better this game and I'm as surprised as all of you are that he is still alive. In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4. That's the same amount of time I stayed alive when I was Ghetsis in XVI.

 

[scorri]

scorri thinks what PM is saying is that as PM gets more votes on him, PM's vote increases in value? scorri is unsure what she thinks about this role...

 

[pokemonplayer101]

PM, I was saying you look scummy last Game Day, and you're not looking any better today.

Again, I'll VOTE: PMysterious

Now, I have a question for you: PM, if the amount of votes you have increases when you have more votes on you, does it decrease with less votes on you?

If you refuse to answer, I have a simple plan I'd like to share with the town to find out.

 

[Sandslash7]

Can you help me out on this and ask again?

Sure thing.

The primary and most important one: "Are you saying that townies should act scummy? This is what your posts seem to be saying. How is that serving the town win condition?"

Another question: You seem to be saying in the first part that the only progress the town will have made would have been through unfounded accusations. Is this correct?


Most of the rest was more points of contention that were not questions but statements. I could go back and dredge some up if you want me too, but these are sufficient for now.

If that was the case, my vote would have been at 0 on Day 1. So, incorrect.

DC725: Pressure sometimes leads to my favor. I could card less as my vote gets higher and higher every time.

Also, waynegg. I really got to give you credit, why I'm giving you this this credit is because now, you have put Vablakes at 3. Sure, I'm at 4, but I don't really care. I'm confirmed. However, currently, I'm worthless, but late-game, I can actually help the Town win. I have a sense of aura like Lucario. Early on, I look like a weak player, but as the game goes on, I get stronger and stronger and trust me, soon, I'll be the one that saves the Town from certain defeat. If you thought that was SS7's job, that was 3 games ago, in no way is he going to help you. The Werewolves know 10 times better this game and I'm as surprised as all of you are that he is still alive. In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4. That's the same amount of time I stayed alive when I was Ghetsis in XVI.

PM, you are clearly crumbing a vote related PR.

The details of which are hazy and I'm not going to assume anything at this point.

Though I'm confused about the last paragraph there. Can you break it down into shorter segments to get the full meaning across? I don't want to misinterpret you here, and you make a lot of assumptions and statements without evidence. Please be clear and elucidate. I definitely did read this post, which is why I want clarification.

 

[PMysterious]

@SS7: Alright, if you need this, here ya go.

If that was the case, my vote would have been at 0 on Day 1. So, incorrect.

DC725: Pressure sometimes leads to my favor. I could card less as my vote gets higher and higher every time.

Also, waynegg. I really got to give you credit, why I'm giving you this this credit is because now, you have put Vablakes at 3. Sure, I'm at 4, but I don't really care. I'm confirmed.

However, currently, I'm worthless, but late-game, I can actually help the Town win. I have a sense of aura like Lucario. Early on, I look like a weak player, but as the game goes on, I get stronger and stronger and trust me, soon, I'll be the one that saves the Town from certain defeat.

If you thought that was SS7's job, that was 3 games ago, in no way is he going to help you. The Werewolves know 10 times better this game and I'm as surprised as all of you are that he is still alive. In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4. That's the same amount of time I stayed alive when I was Ghetsis in XVI.

@PP101 and scorri: That is correct. My vote does increase the more votes I have. If I'm at 0, my vote is at 1. If I'm at 2, it goes to 2. If I'm at 4, it goes to 3. etc.

If that's how simple you want it, that's how simple it is.

 

[DragonClyne725]

DC725: Pressure sometimes leads to my favor. I could card less as my vote gets higher and higher every time.

So, if I am understanding this correctly, for every 2 votes on you your vote increases by 1? Why did you choose to reveal this now, on Day 3?

Sure, I'm at 4, but I don't really care. I'm confirmed. However, currently, I'm worthless, but late-game, I can actually help the Town win. I have a sense of aura like Lucario. Early on, I look like a weak player, but as the game goes on, I get stronger and stronger and trust me, soon, I'll be the one that saves the Town from certain defeat. If you thought that was SS7's job, that was 3 games ago, in no way is he going to help you. The Werewolves know 10 times better this game and I'm as surprised as all of you are that he is still alive. In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4.

If you say that you are strongest late-game, than once again, why reveal this now? Why not wait until later on when your role is "stronger"?

Also, I'm not sure I understand where this attack on SS7 came from.

Suspicious Pointy Finger: PMysterious

 

[xxumbreonxx]

Also, waynegg. I really got to give you credit, why I'm giving you this this credit is because now, you have put Vablakes at 3. Sure, I'm at 4, but I don't really care. I'm confirmed. However, currently, I'm worthless, but late-game, I can actually help the Town win. I have a sense of aura like Lucario. Early on, I look like a weak player, but as the game goes on, I get stronger and stronger and trust me, soon, I'll be the one that saves the Town from certain defeat. If you thought that was SS7's job, that was 3 games ago, in no way is he going to help you. The Werewolves know 10 times better this game and I'm as surprised as all of you are that he is still alive. In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4. That's the same amount of time I stayed alive when I was Ghetsis in XVI

PMysterious: I bolded the sentence in which I am a bit confused. Why would you ask to be lynched on day 4 when you stated that you will "prove" to be useful later on in game? Also, the only way you COULD be lynched would have to be if you didn't vote at all. Another thing I noticed was that what you said sounds like a threat: "if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night" so pretty much, If SS7 is still around by day 4, we will lose you? we will lose someone who "cares for the town and can really help us out later"? Right now, when you say you're pro-town, you seem a whole lot more anti-town to me. I would vote for you right now, but I don't want to give what looks like my enemy any more advantages.

 

[Benson]

@SS7: Alright, if you need this, here ya go.



@PP101 and scorri: That is correct. My vote does increase the more votes I have. If I'm at 0, my vote is at 1. If I'm at 2, it goes to 2. If I'm at 4, it goes to 3. etc.

If that's how simple you want it, that's how simple it is.

I'm sensing some deceit in this comment of yours. Care to reiterate your meaning behind this statement?

 

[SMP88]

If that was the case, my vote would have been at 0 on Day 1. So, incorrect.

DC725: Pressure sometimes leads to my favor. I could card less as my vote gets higher and higher every time.

Also, waynegg. I really got to give you credit, why I'm giving you this this credit is because now, you have put Vablakes at 3. Sure, I'm at 4, but I don't really care. I'm confirmed. However, currently, I'm worthless, but late-game, I can actually help the Town win. I have a sense of aura like Lucario. Early on, I look like a weak player, but as the game goes on, I get stronger and stronger and trust me, soon, I'll be the one that saves the Town from certain defeat. If you thought that was SS7's job, that was 3 games ago, in no way is he going to help you. The Werewolves know 10 times better this game and I'm as surprised as all of you are that he is still alive. In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4. That's the same amount of time I stayed alive when I was Ghetsis in XVI.

Where does this SS7 hate come from? Why do you want to be lynched? What do previous games have to do with anything?

@SS7: Alright, if you need this, here ya go.

@PP101 and scorri: That is correct. My vote does increase the more votes I have. If I'm at 0, my vote is at 1. If I'm at 2, it goes to 2. If I'm at 4, it goes to 3. etc.

If that's how simple you want it, that's how simple it is.

How exactly does your role work? Explain exactly what the equation is.

 

[PikaJewel]

I'm curious why Pm thinks he'll be good for the town later on. and why he wants to be lynched if a specific situation happens. Also I agree with Jellyfisher about AT, he has not said almost nothing on D2. Wanyegg I'm keeping my eye, on, you. :smile:

Now yes some of the people who haven't posted can be wolves, AND they can be townies. PM I don't agree with calling anybody stupid, IMO I think Prohawk has been scum hunting actively while YOU haven't I've only seen stubborn voting from you right from the beginning so you blaming the no lynch on those who weren't voting was a load of rubbish. Some serious scum tells need to be found and fast or this game could be heading to the wolves quickly. Luckily for us most of the lynches have been on maybe independent groups, hardly any townies. Now hopefully a wolf lynch will happen soon but until then I hope our luck lasts.


For now I'm not lynching anybody. cause I don't see any serious scum and I don't like lynching people who can't defend themselves.

 

[waynegg]

Sure thing.

The primary and most important one: "Are you saying that townies should act scummy? This is what your posts seem to be saying. How is that serving the town win condition?"

Another question: You seem to be saying in the first part that the only progress the town will have made would have been through unfounded accusations. Is this correct?


Most of the rest was more points of contention that were not questions but statements. I could go back and dredge some up if you want me too, but these are sufficient for now.

Thanks for that.

1. No. What I'm saying is that how aggressively someone types, or how blatantly they come through as town/wolf/etc. isn't indicative of their role in WW and is a lousy reason to vote. A few games back, when AT was Giovanni the wolf leader, every one of his posts came off in the most pro-town light for example.

2. What I said was the town made no real progress on their own on D1. There was a lot of unfounded finger pointing, that in my experience leads to poor lynches. The only relevant clues that were to be had on D1 was from the update. On that note, I really think we should start putting pressure on the list of people who voted my way during the gambit (whether you like the gambit itself or not) I played. I guarantee there are some wolfies there.

Before getting to that, though, I gotta touch on this.

In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4. That's the same amount of time I stayed alive when I was Ghetsis in XVI.

Interesting that you chose to say 'if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night'. Why not lynched today? Are you saying he is the wolves next target? If so, how do you know this?

Now, to the list of those who joined that bandwagon against me. Any suggestions on where to start?

Benzo, post 932
pokemonfreak5, post 934
DagonClyne725, post 937
Glaceon, post 947
Human Destroyer, post 957
thunderjolt, post 963
SMP88, post 966
JewelQuest, post 969

 

[Human Destroyer]

Nowhere.

You were probably the scummiest player on the planet yesterday and I'm not sure why you think scum joined your bandwagon necessarily. I'm not saying they couldn't have, it's just that more than likely 75% of that wagon is town. (Okay yeah that was a random number but still)

Although if I had to pick one of them, I'd say PF5.

 

[ProHawk]

Waynegg, I want to know why you think scum jumped on the opportunity to vote you.

Here is the way I see it. You admittedly played scummy to attract votes. I agree with your idea that scum would bandwagon for an easy lynch. However, I think you are mis-judging the size of the game. You didn't allow your gambit to run nearly far enough. You weren't an easy lynch at that time. Your list consisted of 8 players in a game-size of 41. That is about only 20% of the total player-base, and you still needed 13 votes to be lynched at that time. In my opinion, you weren't a hot-enough lynch target for wolves to stick their neck out for.

My theory: the wolves are just hanging back in the background taking it easy. We had 15 people that didn't vote and 10 of them weren't restricted or mod-killed. Which is the safer play? Vote you early on, or just wait around to see how the dust settles and get a vote in when you are actually looking like you are going to be lynched? Or just plain not vote at all and force the town into another no-lynch?

I think you are looking into your gambit a bit much Waynegg and with the way it turned out, I would be surprised to see scum in your list. I still think there is a better chance of finding scum in my list of 10 no-voters.

 

[eclipse]

Thanks, scorri, but I was off to bed/other things after that. Seems that what happened wasn't a host error, so I can play. ONWARD!

I have a feeling that whoever's stringing people up is not aligned with the town. So far, they have targeted two people who have been under scrutiny. Both were also in danger of being lynched, but weren't. Speaking of our mystery stringer, he/she has another target in PMysterious - if he can't talk during the day, he can't use his claimed ability.

I think it's rather silly to give wolves that kind of ability. Here's an example, assuming that PMysterious is a wolf:

Let's say the game is down to four non-wolves and three wolves. Three of of the non-wolves vote for PMysterious. PMysterious votes for a non-wolf, and the two wolves vote for the same non-wolf. They have lynch control even though they are the minority, numbers-wise.

In other words, the wolves win earlier than any sane mafia game should let them. This also holds true for any anti-town faction - if PMysterious does flip something anti-town, I'll have to seriously question the balance of this game.

What I don't like are the two people who don't want to put a vote down - PikaJewel and xxumbreonxx. If I could vote for both of you, I would. One reason's dodgier than the other.

Vote xxumbreonxx

Your "enemies" are not going to go away by not doing anything about them.

PikaJewel, who looks like a good lynch target, and why?

 

[ProHawk]

Eclipse, an interesting theory. What makes you so sure PM is telling the truth about his role? We would need to gather more concrete evidence before clearing him in the name of balance.

 

[JewelQuest]

...I just have no idea what to say about PM's claim, and his attack on SS7. I think that the vote count confirms his role(unless we have a role out there that picks a person to always have one more vote, or something like that), but not his alignment, but why should we lynch him if SS7 doesn't die? I think we need a little more information, though I hate to give it to the wolves.

But I find jellyfisher's find here rather interesting.

...

I certainly wasn't expecting that in the night update.

But anyway, its good to be back. I kept reading the thread during the time I was dead, so I don't really have to do all that much to get caught up (I still have to do some work since I wasn't following it as closely as I do when I am playing).

So first off, I have no idea how I am back in the game. Sure, I can make guesses about it, and I might even make the correct guess about what happened, but I wouldn't be able to confirm anything. All I know is that I am still a townie.

Moving on from that, I can't really contribute all that much at the moment. I have don't have many reads yet, and the few that I have are for the most part so weak that they aren't even worth pursuing right now. However, there is one player that I did notice acting odd last game day. Absoltrainer.

On the first game day, he made very big accusations on three players. Kayle, Vablakes and Vegitalian. Kayle died on the first night, and we now know that he was a townie. We never heard AT's thoughts on that.

Vegitalian has been tied up for two days, so he doesn't matter right now.

Vablakes was almost lynched last game day. Did AT try to convince everyone to get him lynched? Sort of. But not nearly as hard as I thought he would have tried. From what I can remember, he basically said that he was still believed the arguments he had made the previous day were correct, and left it at that. No new arguments were made. No attempt to convince those that had voted for Waynegg to switch their votes was made either. Why not? Why didn't he try harder? I am not implying that others that wanted Vablakes to be lynched and put in the same amount, or less effort then AT shouldn't take any blame for what happened yesterday. But AT was perhaps the biggest supporter of the Vablakes lynch on day one. I find it odd that he was so silent when the lynch was so close.

I am not going to be voting for Absoltrainer at the moment. All of the accusations I have made might have a simple explanation. Its possible that AT simply didn't have the time to launch another attack on Vablakes. He should however keep in mind I could easily change my mind about whether he deserves my vote or not.

I do agree that it might have a simple explanation, or it could be someone trying to frame AT by stringing up those who he accused, but I do believe that it is worth looking into.

I'd also like to point out that I feel that I made some very valid points against waynegg yesterday, but he never bothered to say anything to them, or even bother to recognize that I had made them. Ignoring me is not making me trust him any more.

 

[Sandslash7]

PM ~ Thanks, but I'm going to have to quote your post and ask specific questions.

Also, waynegg. I really got to give you credit, why I'm giving you this this credit is because now, you have put Vablakes at 3.

Sure, I'm at 4, but I don't really care. I'm confirmed.

However, currently, I'm worthless, but late-game, I can actually help the Town win.

I have a sense of aura like Lucario.

Early on, I look like a weak player, but as the game goes on, I get stronger and stronger and trust me, soon, I'll be the one that saves the Town from certain defeat.

If you thought that was SS7's job, that was 3 games ago, in no way is he going to help you.

The Werewolves know 10 times better this game and I'm as surprised as all of you are that he is still alive.

In fact, if SS7 doesn't get night-killed this night, I ask to be lynched on Day 4.

That's the same amount of time I stayed alive when I was Ghetsis in XVI.

1) This is fine, I understand this.

2) Two things here. 1 is that "you" are not confirmed yet until Pika/Lex updates the vote count. Though I do not doubt this is your role. However your alignment is not confirmed. Given the roles we have seen so far in this game I am not going to assume you are a townie with this role unless it is confirmed either through your play, a seer, or a flip. With 5, or 6? win conditions in this game there are far too many variables at play.

3) As is everyone. Each player's power increases as the endgame approaches, due to statistical percentages.

4) And your point here is... ?

5) See 3.

6) What do you mean with this? It is definitely my job to help the town win. With games this large, however, it is the entire town's responsibility to do so. The mantle should not rest on one player alone.

7) So the wolves know... what exactly? If you mean to say they know the above, then I'm struggling to understand your logical jump here. Please clarify.

8) What? How does this even make sense?

9) I really don't see the point of this sentence. It serves no purpose in this game.

Thanks for that.

1. No. What I'm saying is that how aggressively someone types, or how blatantly they come through as town/wolf/etc. isn't indicative of their role in WW and is a lousy reason to vote. A few games back, when AT was Giovanni the wolf leader, every one of his posts came off in the most pro-town light for example.

2. What I said was the town made no real progress on their own on D1. There was a lot of unfounded finger pointing, that in my experience leads to poor lynches. The only relevant clues that were to be had on D1 was from the update. On that note, I really think we should start putting pressure on the list of people who voted my way during the gambit (whether you like the gambit itself or not) I played. I guarantee there are some wolfies there.

Thanks for the reply.

1)While I do agree that scum intend to act as townie as they can, if the village allows players to act scummy it allows scum to get away with scummy actions themselves. This isn't an efficient means of hunting them, IMO.

For (good) scum it is usually a waiting game until they crack under the pressure. See KP from XVI. He held out on his own for 3 days or so as the final wolf before he committed the DSDS.


2) Yes that does make sense, but my question was more in response to your statement that D2 "would have been the same" (paraphrased). Yeah D1 didn't have lots of immediate, obvious use, but that doesn't mean that D2 would be identical, nor will they not have use later in the game when we can uncover scummy voting patterns and other actions.