Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!

[Vablakes]

Oh, and GG Wolves. Sorry for such horrible play the first few days guys, I was pretty bad. My play is shaping up now, I'm getting a lot better. I was still learning all the mechanics and roles and such. I award myself worst townie of the game award.

 

[Sandslash7]

Well, good job wolves (again) and outlaws. You had me fooled (you know I am sarcastic about this). Anyway, reading the game showed how terrible our meta is at this current time. The person who I disliked the most in this game was jpulice. I mean, he was such a cool guy BEFORE this game, then the Veteran Virus corrupted him and got himself modkilled for no reason. Let's compare THAT to TheKing in WWXVI.

King: Was Wolf, did a strategic play, utilized the rules doing so, actually made sense to do.

jpulice: Was Town, did it during the night, rage quitted.

See the difference? Sadly, I see the difference and I am not even a vet of this game yet (well, I don't consider myself one though a certain person who I called out as a wolf before I died said I was). Anyway, I think the game WAS a little flopsided to the wolves. To add insult to injury, DarthPika was GUARANTEED to survive this game no matter how the game went if cabd is telling the truth.

PM, a few things.

There is no such thing as a Veteran Virus.
JP modkilled himself because he thought that the moderator was cheating the game for another faction. That has nothing to do with being a Veteran. It had nothing to do with strategy.

I honestly don't know why you are continually bringing up the word "Veteran." There is no point in doing so here. And besides, YOU are a veteran player. Deal with it.


Also, what are the specific balance clauses that caused the game to be sided towards the wolves? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this because I thought the wolves had a 15-25% chance to win from the outset.



I would agree with some of the other posters (Akane) about speech impediments and post restrictions/post blocking roles. I mentioned my thoughts on this earlier.


Prohawk's thought earlier is a good one. Ikrit and I decided that because the player base is so large here on the Gym, two separate games could be run at the same time. This allows the games to be small enough to be able to Day Play appropriately, but at the same time accommodate all who wish to play.

For my game I'm definitely considering that as a legitimate option.

 

[cabd]

The reason for such a big game was because there were a lot of sour grapes when players failed to get into LEX's last game, as well as AAM's recent game. Neither LEX or I wanted players to have to wait months to get into the next game. Obviously a smaller game would have been better because of the inactivity mod kills, but there's the reason why for the large game

The other bonus to running smaller games i that even if you miss, the next game is open sooner.

 

[JewelQuest]

I almost won? Lol, and I thought I had no chance of winning whatsoever....

I've got quite a bit to say here, but first things first, and the first thing I want to point out is attitudes.

This is a game. It is meant to be fun like a game. But it is impossible for it to be fun with everybody acting like jerks to everybody else. Name-calling, flaring up at other players, even as going so far as to call other players to quit acting 'high and mighty' when they are just trying to help the newer players. I am very disappointed in the attitudes of all the players.
Everybody is suspicious of one another, but that doesn't mean that we have to resort to making the game un-fun by not playing nicely. You can call another player a wolf without insulting them.

PMysterious, I'm afraid that you are part of the 'attitude-problems' in this game. You threw a HUGE hissy-fit when you were about to be lynched, and though you apologized, it was too late to take back the hurtful things you had said. Your obsession with putting down Vet-Reverence has completely capitalized your playstyle into Newb-Reverence, and that has got to stop, for the better of the game.

Absoltrainer, I must say, though your jerk-tude completely threw everyone off in this game, was it really necessary to make the game un-fun for several other people in order to make yourself survive?

Okay, I think I've said all I can think on this subject, so moving on.

I really liked my role. I wasn't sure at first when I got a role that said "Arthurians Win" and then saw that my role was to kill myself and the person I was targeting, but then I decided that if I couldn't influence the night without killing myself, I would influence the day. And so, I did my best to be an active part of the town(Which was hard to do with AT's fight with Veggie, I must say. I considered several times using my role on you, AT.)
When I died, I was pleasantly surprised to find that I had a new role now that I was dead, and that I could still win. This new role allowed me to see who was Arthurian, and was not. Of course, most of the Arthurians had already died, and after PikaJewel died, I found that DarthPika was the only one left of those who I knew was Arthurian.

I was one of the victims of Azure Kite's role, and I must say that I am NOT happy that we weren't going to be informed when it wore off, and that it could be used multiple times. I thought that my role was changed for good, and so I had no defense ready for when the seer said that I was wolf. There are several things I could have done, but since I did not know that I would flip with my original Win con, I didn't do any of them.

The Electrode role actually isn't that bad, though I agree that the targets should have not been able to be picked out by the wolves.

I must applaud the mods for creative role descriptions. Many of them made me grin very widely.

Anywho, JewelQuest over and out for now, since I have to get off of the computer.

 

[PikaJewel]

Good game! I wish I coulda survived to see the end. but it was not to be. Good playing Outlaws and Wolves, you were really well hidden, especially DarthPika and Eclipse who were really well hidden and really good at pretending to be towns.

 

[kirbyking]

Pikamaster literally gave me the most annoying role ever. I am an active and livid poster, but I get a role where I can only post the amount of game days. I wish me and Jason could've switched.

 

[ProHawk]

Absol, since everyone is giving you a hard time about it, I am just going to say I enjoyed your antics! :biggrin:

 

[pokemonfreak5]

Hi all.
In true Pf5 fashion, I have a lot to say and not much time to say it in. I'll come and post when I get a break from uni.

I'd just like to say congrats to the wolves. I was convinced DP was the only remaining wolf so you fooled me there. Also though I'd like to give a big congrats to my fellow outlaws. I think in terms of tactical decisions and teamwork you guys were one of the most notable factions I've worked with (coming from a 4 wolves in a row player ). While not every play we made was good, (and one hindered us for a long time tbh, completely my fault), there definitely was some pretty great work.

Before I come back and post my thoughts, to DP, eclipse and the rest of the wolves, how accurate was Benson's summary of the wolves play?

 

[ProHawk]

I recall one post where he was dead on, but he later changed his views and didn't stick to his guns, so it really wasn't a big deal IIRC

 

[kirbyking]

Hawk - IMO it was so obvious you were scum, but honestly I either

A) Didn't care
B) Couldn't post or
C) Both

---------- Post added 05/02/2013 at 05:59 PM ----------

You get a cookie for making sure to stay alive.

 

[Shinori]

I actually figured that whoever through a vote down first was highly plausible to win.

I knew i shoulda done that.

Also my eclipse read. Gdi.

 

[PMysterious]

PMysterious, I'm afraid that you are part of the 'attitude-problems' in this game. You threw a HUGE hissy-fit when you were about to be lynched, and though you apologized, it was too late to take back the hurtful things you had said. Your obsession with putting down Vet-Reverence has completely capitalized your playstyle into Newb-Reverence, and that has got to stop, for the better of the game.

May I ask why you would say this? I HAVE been trying to stop. The one thing I hate is pressure. When pressure is put down on the table, I end up overreacting. I TRY to avoid pressure, but my big mouth ends up getting in the way. Anyway, I try to be active if I can, but I suppose I should just shut up more often before my mouth gets in the way again. Anyway, I'm NOT trying to bring in Newb Reverence as we know how THAT would go. (Seeing as the opposite has already happened). Also, my reply screen is glitching up, so I might have to sit out the next game to try and get this resolved.

 

[Pikamaster]

May I ask why you would say this? I HAVE been trying to stop. The one thing I hate is pressure. When pressure is put down on the table, I end up overreacting. I TRY to avoid pressure, but my big mouth ends up getting in the way. Anyway, I try to be active if I can, but I suppose I should just shut up more often before my mouth gets in the way again. Anyway, I'm NOT trying to bring in Newb Reverence as we know how THAT would go. (Seeing as the opposite has already happened). Also, my reply screen is glitching up, so I might have to sit out the next game to try and get this resolved.

Don't take offense at it, PMysterious. This is the place where we point out problems with the game, as well as things that happened in the game. Trying to stop or not, you did have an episode, which was a problem. JQ isn't insulting you, she's pointing out problems in a helpful way.

As for the attitude thing....

AT/Vegitalian/DP/Diaz/PMysterious/Cabd, you all had "moments" in the game that were very close to getting yourselves removed (Cabd got a ban for it, but I'm mentioning everyone). Whether it was intentionally provoking another player or not, personal attacks of any kind are unacceptable, and insults should be kept to a minimum. Night talking is also not acceptable unless it is approved by the game mod (as AT's post was).

 

[vegitalian]

AT, I think at the time I took it personally (which is why I overreacted), though I soon realized it was a game tactic. I used your secondary lynch target (Vablakes) to try and get the people voting for me and voting for you united. It worked, but then cheating happened...

At the beginning, most of my targets were way off, but near the end I had a good idea about ProHawk, DP, and eclipse. The last couple of days I was alive I felt like I was talking to myself.

 

[ProHawk]

Hawk - IMO it was so obvious you were scum, but honestly I either

A) Didn't care
B) Couldn't post or
C) Both

---------- Post added 05/02/2013 at 05:59 PM ----------

You get a cookie for making sure to stay alive.

I LOL'ed at this comment made post-game .

STRATEGY-TIP

Ya'll townies should have lynched DarthPika every single day and used him as a pseudo seer if you had any doubt about him being a wolf. Anyone that didn't die from his redirect would have been confirmed not wolf, and anyone who did die, well you get the role-card .

 

[cabd]

I LOL'ed at this comment made post-game .

STRATEGY-TIP

Ya'll townies should have lynched DarthPika every single day and used him as a pseudo seer if you had any doubt about him being a wolf. Anyone that didn't die from his redirect would have been confirmed not wolf, and anyone who did die, well you get the role-card .

This. 110% this. It was like a free day seer every lynch. And if had back-pedaled on the whole infinite uses thing, well, there you go, LaL

 

[DragonClyne725]

Great game Wolves, and thanks a lot Pikamaster/LEX for running the game! Besides messing up my role and the whole flipping Wolf part of it, the game was really enjoyable!

 

[Pikamaster]

Great game Wolves, and thanks a lot Pikamaster/LEX for running the game! Besides messing up my role and the whole flipping Wolf part of it, the game was really enjoyable!

That wasn't a mistake, that was a hidden mechanic to your role. :tongue: All the mechanics and stuff will be explained later.

 

[Benzo]

This was my post #490, where I breadcrumbed my connection to TJ and P101. Not much of a crumb, but I do feel it was enough for TJ or P101 to use this if I was taken out, or at least if one of us was taken out of the game. I have bolded the clues from that post:

AT has what he believes to be a good case against Vegi. I do not have a problem with him stateing his case, even though it is on the aggressive side and he is sticking to his guns on it- I would like to see what Vegi has further to say before I comment on the matter. I think though that AT could wrap it up into a single post on his case against Vegi and should leave it at that for the time being. Vegi has yet to reply/post, I think he deserves a bit of a chance to speak more, so I do not believe he needs another vote to know that he needs to defend and clear things up.

I do see a little bit of what AT is saying, it is his read/findings that he is entitled to, just not enough yet for me to be sold on that AT is correct in all of his readings against Vegi.

@Tables:

As I have stated before, I was not nit-picking at your words to single the words out and take them by grammaticle manner to be extreme by definition- I thank you for being consistant in your style and mannerism. I simply wanted to test your personality and playstyle, and to get a better reading on you and have that chance to get clarification as to your intentions, as people do many tacticle things that are not so obviouse to the normal. I am not really of the normal, so, my inquiry to your wording and as to why it stuck out as odd to me.

UNVOTE: TABLES

Reason for the unvote: I may not be 100% satisfied with his further replies as to how he has worded them, (or the previous post's from him) but I think for now he has shown to be at least consistant in attitude and playstyle.
I do hope though Tables that you do see the reasons behind as to why I was on your case. I belive if you were in my shoes and got the read I had, I am sure that you would act on that read just as I have.

@Prohawk: To me, nit-picking can go both ways as to whether or not it is effective. I think the difference is how it is used, like look at my read against Tables. I was not nit-picking, ( at least I do not believe so) or trying to use a word dictionary definition to make a point- people do not understand each other the same (not a tomato, tomoto thing) but a communication difference. If you believe a person says something that could have alterior motives or hints at something, in a way nit-picking can be of help as it is intnetions are to get a better understanding. If you use nit-picking to continue to grill a person agressivly, then maybe it is not the best factor of stratgy for the situation to determin if a person is just plain speaking with talk that is "relaxed" (like, hay bro, how's go'n?-- which a person could nit pick back with "I ain't your "bro" and what do you mean by how's what going? and just not letting up.)

I know I would not like to get burned for just trying to speak without having every word I say nit-picked to death, that has happened to me in other games- and the person who did that was a wolf. Now, if it were the case of like my level of posting activity that I was getting grilled for, i will say that being a Mod that approximatly 1/3 of the time I come onto the site I have time for other things besides, thus I would not want a player to continue to bombard me with nit-picking as to my level of activity, as per another example for the nit-picking thing.

Heck, I would love to have more then 1/3 of the time I log in to play, but there is a specific order that I do like to do things on here. Unless someone wants to PM every member on here to tell them to behave while I play-

I would be shocked if it were that simple to be able to communicate with everyone on the same level of understanding, or I would be in deep water if I couldn't at least ask for clarification.

Since I did touch on the issue of aggressive play- I am a bit undecided on AT's play right now. I will look through again when I have time to analyze it all.

My thoughts on Crimsonsky:

A little bit to quick for my taste to hint like that so soon, but it is his play and risk. I do think that perhaps it has a side effect on him as well, so unless he has a way to be offensive with his role- it could be a gamble. Any other thoughts on Crimsonsky?

@Pokeplayer101:

Glad to see you add a little bite to your bark, please keep it up.

@PMysterious:
There is quite a bit more going on other then taking the time to continue with an open-ended possible reasons as to why 3 people got replaced. I agree with the pressure votes to get you to talk, and there is plenty of time to speak up.



I would like to see some of the not yet to post players speak up as well, I know busy is busy but at least a quick thought on something going on in here (which there is plenty of) please.

@Diaz:
Linking people can happen with little to a few words - like, 2 poeple vote for the same person= easy for anyone to pop in with "OMG, buddy-buddy going on between so and so)- I do agree to an extent, but only that because it is day 1, and linking is so minimal right now-- but later on in the game, linking connections is better off IMO since there is more irreversable actions that can be analyzed to make possible connections.

@Kayle, #484 ,
#3 I can understand. I am in the same spot on this as well.

@Rhino- still a bit on the suspicious list from me, yet I do want to go back and read through some things. I will do so, and time wise I do believe i can reach a conclusion to my read, we'll see. There is plenty of higher suspicious activity other then you, but be aware that i am still considering you suspect.

This is all I have time for right now, I do await for some more postings in order to give those who have not posted a chance to do so, as hopefully they provide some insight. Sorry for the long post, like I said time wise this is what I got.

The part I said about being able to post "1/3" of the time, that was a hint as well, and an attempt to state that I sort of was restricted on being able to post, since I had to post 1/3 of the time in order. I didn't want people to think that I simply was lurking, or just not contributing much.

I do not know how much of anything I said in the game was worth help in getting rid of the wolves, but I do believe I at least was correct on two players who needed to be taken out, SS7 and Jason.

I am not sure yet if I want to link to where the 3 of us held our conversations to show our plans for our role, I will need to ask TJ and P101 to see if they mind me doing that.

Over all, GG mods, thanks for more experiance on my end. It was puzzling and a real thinker at times.

I might include more info on this later from my perspective and some of my other thoughts on the players.

 

[eclipse]

I actually figured that whoever through a vote down first was highly plausible to win.

I knew i shoulda done that.

Also my eclipse read. Gdi.

[DEL]So does this mean you'll kill me every night if you roll vig?[/DEL] :tongue:

May I ask why you would say this? I HAVE been trying to stop. The one thing I hate is pressure. When pressure is put down on the table, I end up overreacting. I TRY to avoid pressure, but my big mouth ends up getting in the way. Anyway, I try to be active if I can, but I suppose I should just shut up more often before my mouth gets in the way again. Anyway, I'm NOT trying to bring in Newb Reverence as we know how THAT would go. (Seeing as the opposite has already happened). Also, my reply screen is glitching up, so I might have to sit out the next game to try and get this resolved.

STEP ONE: None of this "poor me" nonsense. Okay?
STEP TWO: Kick that Reply screen into shape.
STEP THREE: If you're lynched in mafia, you don't die/lose your house in real life.
STEP FOUR: If your "big mouth" is getting you into trouble, triple-read your posts before replying.
STEP FIVE: If someone in-game is asking you about something, no matter how trivial it is, ANSWER THEM. Don't side-step it, don't be angry about it, answer as if they'd asked you what your favorite color was. On the same token, if someone asks you to explain something, do so to the best of your ability.

It's not a matter of whether or not you can improve, it's a matter of whether or not you want to.