what cards do you wish they would remake?
- Thread starter FSULugia
- Start date
I'm not sure honestly..I think an update to maybe 70-80hp would be needed for it to be more competitive and to not be donked by tornadus (unless they give it a colorless resistance). I reckon some form of trainer lock wouldn't hurt the format, especially when the best thing we have is gothitelle..
Otaku
Active Member
Ah, but it was printed at a time when it was Item lock, not Trainer lock, yes? Plus would it still have its no Energy attack?
I doubt the HP would be boosted enough to keep it from being at risk early game. Sure it would be out of unaided (and since it was blocking Items, unaided it would be) first turn shots... but it would only just hold on for a second turn against most decks I would think.
I doubt the HP would be boosted enough to keep it from being at risk early game. Sure it would be out of unaided (and since it was blocking Items, unaided it would be) first turn shots... but it would only just hold on for a second turn against most decks I would think.
Phazon Elite
New Member
As I recall, that Spiritomb usually only lasted until turn two or three against many of the more aggro decks back then (unless your opponent did not prepare their deck to properly counter Spiritomb, that is).
On a side note, Spiritomb/Stoutland would be an entertaining deck to use.
Otaku
Active Member
Note that my comments were assuming Spiritomb got an HP bump; if its HP remained the same it would be a donk for a successful Blow Through by Tornadus EX. I doubt it would remain the exact same, but obviously a Tornadus EX aggro deck should KO it (by that player's) second turn, or even OHKO it if for some reason it couldn't attack first turn.
I am assuming the "no Energy" attack and the Colorless Resistance would have to go, as they aren't used anymore. One attack has to go no matter what as so far, nothing have more than one attack with an Ability. I don't know if they'd cut the filler second attack or just drop the first one, as Creatures, Inc. seems pretty skittish on allowing that first turn Evolution; we've seen exceptions but how many apply to a Pokémon other than the attacker?
Lastly, this is not a good format to cut off your own Items. Most set-up decks really depend on Items for basic set-up while your average beatdown is just as concerned with tearing your Pokémon down as building his/her own Pokémon up. In the end I worry that this may be no more effective than Benching a second copy of the Basic you wish to Evolve for the average Evolution packing deck. Some places it could be good.
Doesn't make much sense with Stoutland though; you shut of Items for one turn, then they get those back but you shut off Supporters? Irritating but not crippling, at least at a glance. Maybe it would help Gothitelle decks.
Looking way back, base set electrode. Blow yourself up and get a double rainbow energy. If we bring back cards like copycat and twins, you could take advantage of the drawback. Yeah, I know we electrode prime, but I actually think this is a rare case in which the base set card was better (more reliable).
Otaku
Active Member
Just so you know:
1) When Base Set Electrode uses its "Buzzap" Pokémon Power, it didn't provide a Double Rainbow Energy but instead allowed you to pick any Energy Type and treat it as an Energy card that provides those two Types. This matters due to a few effects:
- Anything with a mixed Energy requirement in the attack (can't pick two different Types).
- Scramble Switch, Dark Trance, Shift Gear, etc. can move it around, thus if it acted as Double Rainbow Energy and provided two units of Energy that each counted as all Energy Types at once it would be far more potent.
2) Electrode would count as a Special Energy; as long as we have Enhanced Hammer it won't see play (Super Energy Removal and even just regular Energy Removal made it a bad play when it was legal).
vaporeon
Moderator
Well, I would rather them make good cards and not make EX pokemon good. The game is so linear its boring. This therad was made because of how bad the game is right now and it because of the lack of good cards and overpower trainers and EX Pokemon.
But if I had to pick a card, then a remake of Duxtox ex with Safeguard would be best.
But if I had to pick a card, then a remake of Duxtox ex with Safeguard would be best.
Sorry to say this... But EWW. Complaining about EXes.
It's a phase. They're still trying to keep fresh new mechanics flowing in.
Would you prefer the format of Machamp Donk, Kingdra Prime, or Sabledonk? You know, 30 second games?
Or do you want Luxchomp days back? You know, a deck that revolved around... TWO BIG BASICS?
Seriously dude. Complaining about EXes is just not worth it.
I want Mime MT, myself.
Also, as I said, we need a Broken Time Space Reprint.
Also Chatot G, because good disruption right now is N. Seriously. N.
It's a phase. They're still trying to keep fresh new mechanics flowing in.
Would you prefer the format of Machamp Donk, Kingdra Prime, or Sabledonk? You know, 30 second games?
Or do you want Luxchomp days back? You know, a deck that revolved around... TWO BIG BASICS?
Seriously dude. Complaining about EXes is just not worth it.
I want Mime MT, myself.
Also, as I said, we need a Broken Time Space Reprint.
Also Chatot G, because good disruption right now is N. Seriously. N.
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baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
We do NOT need a BTS reprint. I seriously have no idea why anyone thinks that T1 Eelektriks will fix this format.
SP format was the last truly good skill-based format. Ok, so Luxchomp revolved around two Basics (that needed to Level Up while in the active position, making them more like Stage 1s than BBPs), but there were so many tech options for that deck and it was constantly evolving and being innovated throughout its lifespan.
Oh and you also had other SP variants (Sablelock, DialgaChomp), a Stage 1 deck (Gyarados) AND a couple of Stage 2s (Gengar variants, Machamp) that were all very competitive, so it was never 'play Luxchomp or lose' (even though a lot of players did choose that deck).
SP format was the last truly good skill-based format. Ok, so Luxchomp revolved around two Basics (that needed to Level Up while in the active position, making them more like Stage 1s than BBPs), but there were so many tech options for that deck and it was constantly evolving and being innovated throughout its lifespan.
Oh and you also had other SP variants (Sablelock, DialgaChomp), a Stage 1 deck (Gyarados) AND a couple of Stage 2s (Gengar variants, Machamp) that were all very competitive, so it was never 'play Luxchomp or lose' (even though a lot of players did choose that deck).
vaporeon
Moderator
Its not fresh for the game. Where they messed up on was giving reshiram and zekrom 130 hp doing 120 damage. They should have been ex pokemon. I think pokemon are as strong as they are today because or zekrom and reshiram. I think ex pokemon ruined the game.
Machamp did not hurt me because I did not play a all basic deck. The sp format was far more balanced then this one now. I dont like games being decided on the first turn where a tornadus ex can do 90 damage. A lot needs to be fixed with the game right now. I rather win games or lose them with skill involved and not win or lose them because of overpowered cards and random events enteracting with them.
Implying:
A) the game is broken
B) it's not just you resisting change
C) this format requires no skill
D) SP format was more balanced
Reality:
A) the game is still playable, and just as fun (at least for me) as it was during SP days.
B) you're simply rejecting change, which is okay, but saying that it is a broken game that takes no skill is not only false, but offensive as well.
C) This format takes almost as much skill as past formats. I dunno how often you are seeing games decided by Tornadus-EX doing 90 first turn, but I assure you that a Sableye donking is just as luck-based.
D) This format is just as balanced as the old one. Sure. I will agree, there was more variety. You didn't have to play an SP deck to win. However, since we're still barely getting into the new archetypes, there is not only still time for improvement, but there is already 2 new archetypes formed in the newest set and the next!
While I do agree that SP was more diverse, I do not agree that it requires more skill. There are about 6 decks now that you can play and expect to win. There was a point at which, during SP's reign, there were FIVE. Give EX a chance to grow and diversify. She's just a wee girl.
And remember the amazing SP support? We have a new archetype coming up that could easily be just as strong. It just depends on how they want to support Plasma.
As for how EXes ruined the game?
No. They just CHANGED the game to big basics. Rejecting change, as I said, is okay, but don't say it RUINED the game.
What ruined the game was the rule change coming into the BW Era. The rule change made stage 2s unplayable as attackers. Don't blame EXes or Zek or Reshi. They did nothing but take advantage of the bad change in rules. If the rules were changed back, stage 2s would be playable. Some stage 2s would be broken, yes, but many more would become actually usable.
In conclusion, and without a moment to spare, I would like to pose a question: are EXes truly broken? Or are stage 2s just neutered to near unplayability?
Otaku
Active Member
So... seriously, no love for Goop Gas? I brought it up. Stormfront brought it up... but no one seems to want to discuss it.
I just think it would be interesting in this format. Might totally backfire (so much for Safeguard and Plasma Steel)... but at the same time it would create an "interupt" for a lot of competitive decks; remember that Goop Gas shut off Pokemon Powers (so ideally an update would affect Abilities) not just during your turn, but during your opponent's next turn.
Dynamotor and Deluge backed decks would really feel the sting because they would have to prep ahead of time or suffer for being unable to pop up another attacker right away. I suppose Sableye would break it, however.
I just think it would be interesting in this format. Might totally backfire (so much for Safeguard and Plasma Steel)... but at the same time it would create an "interupt" for a lot of competitive decks; remember that Goop Gas shut off Pokemon Powers (so ideally an update would affect Abilities) not just during your turn, but during your opponent's next turn.
Dynamotor and Deluge backed decks would really feel the sting because they would have to prep ahead of time or suffer for being unable to pop up another attacker right away. I suppose Sableye would break it, however.
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I think it would be a cool card to see, that or cessation crystal. Obviously with the text reworded to abilities.
I don't exactly remember Goop Gas. My memory is really bad. However, Goop Gas would make Garbodor completely useless. You'd just take Sableye and gas spam.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
Otaku
Active Member
Well, while I was posting someone decided to comment on more stuff.
I fear it is a bit off topic but... the problem with Stage 2 Pokemon wasn't the rules change. The tweaked rules masked the real issue that various "patches" had hidden. If you want a format where fully Evolved Pokemon (that means unevolving Basic Pokemon, Stage 1 Pokemon that can't Evolve further, and Stage 2 Pokemon) all compete against each other and none is going to more or less autofail, you need to dial back the speed/power mix of the game the first few turns while also making the lower Stages of Evolutions more than stepping stones.
We've had plenty of formats where Evolutions were dominate and Basic Pokemon that didn't Evolve were usually junk. We've had formats where Stage 2 Pokemon were dominant, and where Stage 1 Pokemon were dominant, or where they shared. Rarely do we have all three working together. This format has that, but in an unhealthy way; obscene power gets played, regardless of Stage.
For those like myself that want to enjoy a deck focused on any Stage, making sure everything is on more or less equal footing is essential... however as the game mechanics make Evolutions slower than Basic Pokemon, it is important for Basic Pokemon not to have access to their full potential earlier than Evolutions can even hit the field. Even if you took the exact same Pokemon and made one version of it a Basic and the other a Stage 1 or 2, the Basic still has a clear advantage.
So to balance things out, instead of speeding up or powering up Evolutions (good luck getting that to truly work when it never has in the past), you start making Evolving a good thing. You do this with lower Stages that are worth playing. When your Evolving Basic Pokemon is always a good opener, that strengthens the deck. For Stage 2 decks, when the Stage 1 form offers unique options, again it strengthens the deck.
I fear it is a bit off topic but... the problem with Stage 2 Pokemon wasn't the rules change. The tweaked rules masked the real issue that various "patches" had hidden. If you want a format where fully Evolved Pokemon (that means unevolving Basic Pokemon, Stage 1 Pokemon that can't Evolve further, and Stage 2 Pokemon) all compete against each other and none is going to more or less autofail, you need to dial back the speed/power mix of the game the first few turns while also making the lower Stages of Evolutions more than stepping stones.
We've had plenty of formats where Evolutions were dominate and Basic Pokemon that didn't Evolve were usually junk. We've had formats where Stage 2 Pokemon were dominant, and where Stage 1 Pokemon were dominant, or where they shared. Rarely do we have all three working together. This format has that, but in an unhealthy way; obscene power gets played, regardless of Stage.
For those like myself that want to enjoy a deck focused on any Stage, making sure everything is on more or less equal footing is essential... however as the game mechanics make Evolutions slower than Basic Pokemon, it is important for Basic Pokemon not to have access to their full potential earlier than Evolutions can even hit the field. Even if you took the exact same Pokemon and made one version of it a Basic and the other a Stage 1 or 2, the Basic still has a clear advantage.
So to balance things out, instead of speeding up or powering up Evolutions (good luck getting that to truly work when it never has in the past), you start making Evolving a good thing. You do this with lower Stages that are worth playing. When your Evolving Basic Pokemon is always a good opener, that strengthens the deck. For Stage 2 decks, when the Stage 1 form offers unique options, again it strengthens the deck.
Agreed. Make basic evolvers into starters that aren't horrid. I mean, they did it with DEX Zorua, why can't they do it with others?
Tim17
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
A) I presume you ran an SP based deck?
B) what change are you exactly talking about here?
C) depends on the deck, most cases the skill for an "auto" deck is what to focus on first, both on your field and your opponent's.
D) you're somewhat contradicting yourself there - the SP format had diversity - this format is full of big basics, virtually no attacking evolutions.....so yeah....
that's meta, did you consider how rogue was affected? EX's and SP's have their ups/downs to consider - SP's had a higher energy requirement, but had a tool card and an engine via trainer/supporters to get set up quickly. EX's have the benefit of using Prism Energy and low energy requirements (well, for the ones we're usually seeing) with HIGHER damage output. Most used also have engines to work with. Sadly the difference between SP and Plasma support is that SP's main engine - Cyrus' Cons. - could be used in nearly any given deck....I wonder if Plasma will have such a card?
Rejecting change isn't always good or bad here - the problem is now nearly all of what you pack is basically trash. Before this you usually had a good card or two in a pack, if not more. EX's have killed the game in the sense that it's nearly impossible to run something rogue (as in unique or rather rare to see)
and what rule change are you talking about here? rare candy? well I think it was wise considering things like "Ability-Boar" and Blastoise.....
let's also look at it in this point, if it isn't a basic with a minimum of 110 HP, it's probably not attacking to do damage. I say 110 as Shaymin EX is used both as an engine and as a "sweeper".
As for the last question - it's, in my view/opinion, like this:
1) EX's are overpowered compared to previous ex's and SP's. The fact that they're that high up in HP and usually low energy, high damage - makes them so.
2) Stage 2's have virtually little damage output for their energy requirments. They also have the disadvantage of not being able to go off first or, in most cases, second turn. The same could be said of most stage 1's.
to be frank, EX's are overpowered, evolving pokemon is strictly used for speed or some other benefiting use - but not really for attacking. Most of one's booster pack is trash, thus killing one of the best things of the game - Rogue (meaning "outside the box") decks. The game is in some serious need of a fixup.
A) You would be 200% correct.
B) The change from SP to big basic EXes
C) Gonna not deny this one. Some decks are pretty automatic.
D) Should have clarified; I meant that, at most times, the SP meta was more diverse than EX meta.
E) I did consider red face paint in all of this. Like I said, this format IS less diverse, allowing for a lot less deviation. I mean, the farthest I got away from meta was STILL a Landorus and Tornadus-based deck. And as for the massively good Cyrus' Conspiracy? I hope it does. We need something like that right about now.
F) I understand that packs are mostly garbodor nowadays. I am not blind to that. And yes, it kills the red face paint. I think I already touched on this.
G) Sure. The change of rare candy rules was wise at the time, but it also made evolved attackers flat out unplayable without MASSIVE assistance.
Now your points.
1) You would be correct. Now, had Darkrai not gotten Dark Patch, and Keldeo not gotten Blastoise, and Ray not gotten eels, this would be different. Without massive acceleration like those mentioned... EXes (minus Lando and Torna) are pretty bad. No Blastoise makes Keldeo unable to do more than a little bit of damage at once, no Dark Patch makes Darkrai's damage output abysmal for its cost, and no eels makes Ray unable to attack more than twice without blowing up their whole deck. They, on their own, are not fantastic, but when paired with an engine, they become broken. Which is broken TRULY, looking at that? The EX? Or the engine? Now, there are a few acceptions. Mewtwo runs entirely on DCE, as does Tornadus, and Landorus hits hard for one energy. Ho-oh is its own accelerator, and Black Kyurem EX PLS... well, without accel, he's never getting two Black Ballista off.
2) Were this old rare candy rules, Infernape would be a little broken. "First turn, Rare Candy Infernape Fire Colress Machine Malevolent Fire 120!"
If you didn't get that, if he were allowed to candy first turn, infernape could do 120 first turn and only discard one energy. Now, this is not an endorsement to go back, no, but they're at least trying. Donphan is pretty decent too, in this Stadium War format we have, hitting for 140 for two fighting and a DCE as long as you break a stadium. You have to admit... they ARE trying to make random cards more playable.