What Constitues a long time POP Ban...

[meganium45]

Rainbowgym...Lia....

Your situation is a totally separate one from what seems to be set forward here.

Yes, I have no doubt that there was some persecution of you for whatever reason, which has been stated in thread after thread.

I thought your kids were not banned, and actually were competing at the highest levels imaginable.

FS

I am sure that one knows why they are banned, whether or not they want to admit it to the community.

Vince

 

[Team Cook]

A 50-year ban is totally ridiculous. Unless there is a really good explanation, why would anyone would get banned for that long? I personally believe that it's some sort of nonesense that someone would try to pull, just to get someone banned. If a new player who recently started the game gets banned, then it's completely stupid. This has to stop.

-Peter

This is directed to everyone.

PUI owes you no explanation, period. Who are you to ask why someone else gets banned? If you want to know that bad, ask the person that got banned. The ONLY person that is owed an explanation is the person that got banned. PUI doesn't need to provide YOU guidelines. The comment about walking on egg shells is a bunch of crap. Common Sense people, use it at ALL times and you'll never have a problem. I'll give you RIGHT and WRONG because that's what it's all about. YOU know the difference. If you're stupid enough not to know the difference, ask your PTO. I'm sure we can drill it in your head.

To get this over with (regarding the person with the 50 year ban), I'll fill you in on something. I'm the PTO of where this person lives. I know why she got banned, it's not hearsay. Trust me, she got what she deserves. Please don't pm me and ask about it and I don't want to see my area players on here posting "I heard this or that". It's none of your business. If she wants to share why she got banned, she'll do it.

 

[PokePop]

jeremy, you know we can't talk about real stuff like that here on the pokegym. this thread would be locked in an instant. unjustified bans like this will kill the game if word gets around to the general public. its just bad publicity. at least have guidelines to your fricken game.

Not exactly true.
Here is what is allowed and not allowed to discuss on the Gym in this area:

A person can bring up their own situation and have it discussed at length. Martin's ban is a perfect example of this. It was a serious situation involving delicate issues, but since Martin was willing to discuss it, it's allowed. Same even with Dark Jake, when he got his ban. Even though he was banned from the Gym at the time, we allowed him to post his side of the story and for discussion to ensue.

Issues can be discussed in general without reference to a specific individual. Such as this discussion.

Discussions about a particular person's problem/ban, where that person is being specifically discussed and details are being made public that they may not wish to be made public are not allowed unless that person either brings it up themselves or somehow "gives permission" for the details to be discussed. A recent topic was locked for this reason since the persons involved had not indicated that they were willing to have it discussed.

It all boils down to respecting people's privacy. If they waive their privacy, discussion of "real stuff" is fair game.

One exception, with a really long ban, will not be allowed to be discussed on this board, no matter what.
If you know who I mean, you know why. If you don't, just as well.

 

[Rainbowgym]

Vince in the past they (and others) were delibirate excluded from Premier Events.
Looks like this "trend" is picked up again this season, if I can believe the announcements made on a Prerelease last month.
History is repeating and without interference it will become worse.

And yes our case is the only case (I think) which is different from all others.
As far I heard even the UK guys got a reason why and how long their probation/suspension was granted.

And I agree on 1 point with TeamCook: the only ones to reveal any "reason" to any third party is the one involved her/himself PERIOD.

 

[Flaming_Spinach]

PUI owes you no explanation, period. Who are you to ask why someone else gets banned? If you want to know that bad, ask the person that got banned. The ONLY person that is owed an explanation is the person that got banned. PUI doesn't need to provide YOU guidelines. The comment about walking on egg shells is a bunch of crap. Common Sense people, use it at ALL times and you'll never have a problem. I'll give you RIGHT and WRONG because that's what it's all about. YOU know the difference. If you're stupid enough not to know the difference, ask your PTO. I'm sure we can drill it in your head.

I think people want to know what the limits are. If something is going to get me banned from OP, I would just plain not do it. Then there's no thinking about how PUI may interpret the event incorrectly, or hear about it from second-hand sources.

Some things this thread has got me thinking about:

-Can I get banned for listening to Heavy Metal Music?
-Can I get banned for having a personal qualm with a PUI Staff Member?
-Can I get banned for questioning PUIs decisions?
-Can I get banned for insisting worlds should be the largest tournament of the year?
-Can I get banned for double-posting or Spamming on this or any website?
-Can I get banned for asking why someone else got banned?
-Can I get banned for losing my cool when I go 0-3 at the first CC of the year?
-Can I get banned because a group of people personally doesn't like me, and TRIES to get me banned?
-Can I get banned because someone doesn't like my haircut or T-shirt?
-Can I get banned because something I say may rub someone in charge the wrong way?
-OMG!! Can I get Banned for shuffling a mulligan without showing!?!


See, PUI's wording of ANYONE for ANY REASON for ANY PERIOD OF TIME could imply that I get a 500-year ban for not trimming my fingernails.


People get paranoid when companies make broad, sweeping statements like that, and then see bans carried out for little, no, or extremely questionable reasons.

 

[PokePop]

Wow, a lot of off topic posts where they talk about what if such and such gets banned. That's not what I mean . I meant what Does take to get banned, not what if you get banned!!!

In general, what it takes to get banned is to be disruptive, to cheat, or to do something illegal.
I think if you look at every ban (with the possible exception of Lia's [although there was certainly an element of disruption involved there, just a question of justified or not] )you will find one of those three elements present.

How long? That's another matter.

 

[Shellshock929]

Cook, I couldn't care less on whether or not I know why that person is banned or whatsoever. I know it's none of my business, but I am not trying to get into it.

 

[Team Cook]

People get paranoid when companies make broad, sweeping statements like that, and then see bans carried out for little, no, or extremely questionable reasons.

Please provide situations where PUI banned someone for little, no, or extremely questionable reasons. Make sure you're aware of ALL the facts regarding that ban.

Let me answer for you, you have no situations to speak of because you've never been banned (I think). You've never sat in with PUI when they decided to ban someone. If you know someone that has been banned, you might have heard their side of the story, but not PUI's side of it. Unless it's you getting banned, you'll never get all of the story.

To everyone:

Think of this way: If you think you might get banned for something, don't don't do it. If you think you might get banned saying something, don't say it. In the game of Pokemon there's enough to do and say without getting banned or worried about getting banned. If you're not smart enough to figure that out, if you don't know between right and wrong, and you don't know how to exercise just a little common sense, then maybe you deserve to get banned for 50 years.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Cook, I couldn't care less on whether or not I know why that person is banned or whatsoever. I know it's none of my business, but I am not trying to get into it.

I was using your post as a guide. As you'll notice, I didn't direct my post at you.

 

[RakkaHikari]

This has to stop?

You that unhappy? Easy answer my friend, easy answer.

POP can ban people for ANY reason for ANY amount of time.

If POP does not feel that someone is a positive influence in the game, they can be axed.

Playing in POP events is not a right that is held by anyone, it is a privelidge that can be taken away at any time, for any reason.

Sorry kiddies, cold hard facts.

Vince

Hey does this mean that POP does really have a SPINNING WHEEL with members names and random numbers and every 3 months or so
they spin it and that person is banned for x months?
wheee spinny wheels are fun.

I know this situation may be different, in that it had to be something bad, It Has to be.
but Meganium Really this is really not right saying this that someone would be banned from anything for any random reason.

Unless what I said above about the spinning wheel is correct.

 

[Flaming_Spinach]

Let me answer for you, you have no situations to speak of because you've never been banned (I think). You've never sat in with PUI when they decided to ban someone. If you know someone that has been banned, you might have heard their side of the story, but not PUI's side of it. Unless it's you getting banned, you'll never get all of the story.

Maybe that's the reason for some peoples' insecurity regarding this situation?

Without knowing all of the facts, people are allowed to presume whatever they wish, and when they get only 1 side of the story, they are more liable to believe that side. THUS, PUI is usually portrayed as the bad/stupid/insecure guy, and the person banned suddenly turns into the good guy simply because everyone knows HIS side of the story.

You seem to know what happened. Good for you. I couldn't care less. However, when people see someone banned (effectivelly) for life, and the only given explanation is, "Use common sense so it doesn't happen to you", that is not comforting. From previous actions on this subject taken by PUI (read: Martin and Lia), using common sense does not seem to be enough to save anyone.

The players want answers, and PUI seems intent on NOT giving them.




Commentary:

I think PUI still sees this as a childrens game. Because of this, they will do anything possible to NOT admit that people who play the game sometimes do bad things. They don't want to scare away parents or others who may accidentally stmble onto the fact that the National Champion drinks (I have no idea if that's really what he was banned for, but it appears to be the reason), or that prize splitting is actually a part of the game, or that troublemakers once sent links to adult websites disguised as links to PUIs official site. PUI doesn't want to admit these things exist, because they do not want to scare away the few potential customers that might see them and stop buying cards.

But what they don't seem to realize is that they are alienating the whole "serious" playerbase with many of their actions and choices, this being just one of those choices.

 

[homeofmew]

Flaming_Spinach: you know some of that commentary was uncalled for.
Pokemon is supposed to be a fun game. I think there is nothing wrong with punishing people who make THEIR company look bad.
Or did anything against their rules. However sometimes people get upset when its like well I didn't do that at a pokemon event.
I don't fully agree with it either, but people try TO BEHAVE around pokemon people in general.
I mean if your home or somewhere non pokemony, then OK DRINK, SMOKE, Whatever/ and No I am not saying go do this things by all means it's not good for you and homeofmew cares for people, just remember when you do something (non-pokemon approprate)
just dont do it around pokemon people or a way that will make PUI mad at you.

For instance, it is not my fault that A Gym Challenge was held at an Anime Convention and I decided to play becuase I was already there, what I did the rest of the convention was non pokemon related, this includes eating pizza 2am in the morning.

Anyone sending Adult Links disguised as Pokemon links I think it was to a minor is wrong.

It is true that when someone is bad PUI looks like the bad guy cause the person banned tells their side of the story, unless you spefically say " I was accused of this by PUI".

This topic IMO git way off the corse of the fact another person got a long ban, but since it isn't 100 years and this is the first 50 yr ban like ever done. Just IMO thats why this thread exists.

 

[Flaming_Spinach]

Flaming_Spinach: you know some of that commentary was uncalled for.

In what way?


Edited post for content.

 

[SD PokeMom]

Hasn't POP stated multiple times that the 'serious' players aren't the primary group they're targeting OP _towards_?

And look at the list: what age group do the vast majority of deactivated players come from?

'mom

 

[Cyrus]

Overall I agree with Team Cook on this one. Bans don't need to be public announcements because, heaven forbid, getting banned from Pokemon is not anyone's business other than yours/POP's. However, the banned person deserves to know 100% why he/she was removed from the program, including a list of all offenses...not just a nice letter saying "Elemental Blast, you're gone, buddy!"

Also, you guys aren't looking at this from a business perspective: is it in POP's best interest to publically announce why one or two "certain" people were removed permanently? This is a game for everyone, and a business has to be considerate of most/all potential customers, including young children.

I don't know why the 50 year ban was given out, but the 99 year ban really is 100% deserved. Honestly I think you (the topic poster) are right about how random some bans are: if it's 50 years it might as well be life (then again, maybe POP thinks this game will be around for 50 more years?! :biggrin: )

 

[sdp]

-Can I get banned for listening to Heavy Metal Music?
-Can I get banned for having a personal qualm with a PUI Staff Member?
-Can I get banned for questioning PUIs decisions?
-Can I get banned for insisting worlds should be the largest tournament of the year?
-Can I get banned for double-posting or Spamming on this or any website?
-Can I get banned for asking why someone else got banned?
-Can I get banned for losing my cool when I go 0-3 at the first CC of the year?
-Can I get banned because a group of people personally doesn't like me, and TRIES to get me banned?
-Can I get banned because someone doesn't like my haircut or T-shirt?
-Can I get banned because something I say may rub someone in charge the wrong way?
-OMG!! Can I get Banned for shuffling a mulligan without showing!?!

while it would be good to know, it would also put a 'limitation' or people can see it as rules they can 'bend' to say i didn't do anything to be banned that was on the list. I would like to know if wearing a "band shrit" could warrant a ban or if someone with painted nails is 'disruptive' to a soccer mom etc

its obvious they discuss each ban and give what they think is necessary, this is not a goverment its their OP, and so far just look at the number of players and the number of banned players, its very small when compared, so its not like they are banning just anyone,

 

[homeofmew]

In what way?


Edited post for content.

my point is this: if they did something bad then ok ban them i have no problem with that.
Pokemon is a company and it is their business if they want to admit or not. Remember they are a company trying to targer minors (6 -14) maybe.

SD Pokemom has a good point, but is it really my fault that I am not in their target range and I still like pokemon (and for those who know me I am a completly addicted to Pokemon, you people need to see my room XD), of course not. Can I be banned (JUST) for not being in their target range no. But I do understand their target group. However they have to realize it does end up attracting other people then their target group.

Kettlerchu: I agree what is the difference between a life ban (99 yrs) and 50 years. But really it is possible for pokemon to be around 50 yrs from now and this person still being a live (unlikely)

 

[Team Cook]

I give up. Carry on without me.

 

[bulbasnore]

The players want answers, and PUI seems intent on NOT giving them.

Yep, I think you're right. I don't think, for legal and privacy reasons you're going to see any statements about individual cases, either to the public at large or to select members of the community. So, whether the folks at PUI want to give out answers to questions or not, professionally -- guessing based on my own work related guidelines -- they cannot.

I think PUI still sees this as a childrens game.

I guess someone might respond, "Dude, like its not?!".

However, I was around as a 15+ to be banned by WotC. And my wife, too. And, my kids grew into the ban. I didn't like it. I wrote and reasoned against it. In my OPINION the ban figures in several ways into the reasons WotC no longer have the franchise. Pokemon TCG is a game from a kids franchise, but it has way broader appeal than just 14- players. PUI gets this, IMO, in a way that Hasbro/WotC leadership never did (customer service being the exception). The question is, do we 15+ get it that the game is also meant for the littler kids and thats where we get our future player base?

Props to PUI, who have done TONS to encourage the 15+ division participation in the game! As I watch the PUI folks, I think they 'get it' with respect to the 15-20 year old folks in this game - From what I see, they are not easily offended, don't go on witch hunts and enjoy/appreciate the people of that age group in all ways.

Props to PUI leadership also for gutting up and dealing with problems caused by individuals on an individual basis. When there are problems with prejudice, cheats, fraud, theft or disruption - we don't get a ban on the division.

When you look at who has NEVER been banned or even close, its such a huge field, > 99.44% of all 15+ players and > 99.44% of all players that ever won a title in 15+ and probably even > 99.44% of all players who've won multiple titles in 15+.

For those who need to keep questioning ban decisions, go ahead! My view is that if you have something of merit to say, it will get considered by those who can do something about it. If not, you're still getting your chance on the Gym to talk about what matters to you. If you really care, though, you might just write the PUI addresses directly, too.

For anyone really wondering about being banned from POP -- I have no special insight, but this is my personal advice --

Be respectful of

• the game
• the game rules
• the event you play in
• all groups in attendance at the event

The bigger event you play in and the bigger player you are the more this applies.

 

[icemelter1001]

if it's 50 years it might as well be life (then again, maybe POP thinks this game will be around for 50 more years?! :biggrin: )

Got jokes bud? lol

 

[Mew]

All of this is old. I'm tired of hearing everyone whine about banned for this banned for that. NO ONE EVEN KNOWS WHAT THE, THAT, WAS or IS!

"Use common sense so it doesn't happen to you", that is not comforting. From previous actions on this subject taken by PUI (read: Martin and Lia), using common sense does not seem to be enough to save anyone.

Common sense, PUI, is in the eye of the beholder.
~Mew

FREE MARTIN! < Has common sense IMO.