Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Why BigChuck01 should be Unbanned

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DarkJake said:
This is true, but both Jas and Alex are very nice players iRL. In fact, all* the people who post crap here are not like that iRL. Please, don't even consider putting a leash on these players, or the whole divison, they are just having a little fun, I know that I'm right when I say they follow the rules when they're playing a real match.

*99%
M_Liesik said:
...In a perfect world, the four of us that make up Pokemon Organized Play would be able to make it out to every event, and would get to know every player individually. However, that's just not feasible. Many of the views that we develop about individual players come from their online activities.

Posts from "1337er-than-thou" players that reek of poor sportsmanship, working the system, etc. truly aggravate POP, because they are so contrary to what we are trying to accomplish. If the only information that we ever see about a player is online posts, bashing everything that our program stands for, what opinion do you think that we form of that player? Do these posts lead us to believe that this player is a good sport at our events?

While these are not official POP boards, they are public (in that they can be viewed by anyone, regardless of whether that person had a 'Gym account or not). In general, people have to be very careful of what is said (or typed) in public. You never know whose going to hear it, and whether or not there will be repercussions.
'mom
 
DarkJake said:
This is true, but both Jas and Alex are very nice players iRL. In fact, all* the people who post crap here are not like that iRL. Please, don't even consider putting a leash on these players, or the whole divison, they are just having a little fun, I know that I'm right when I say they follow the rules when they're playing a real match.

*99%


*whoosh*

Note: The PokeGym is not Vegas.
What happens here does not stay here.
It's the highest profile Pokemon TCG fan site on the web.
For all intents and purposes, it is real life as far as this game goes.
Someone can be an Eagle Scout in real life.
If they come on here and post trash, they get a trash reputation.

Quote from Anytown, USA's 6 O'Clock News: "He was so quiet. He never caused any trouble in the neighborhood."
 
In my honest opinion, I think it would be best if we just get back to the issues at hand, like how to win big events. With Regionals coming up, why get worked up over this?
 
DarkJake said:
This is true, but both Jas and Alex are very nice players iRL. In fact, all* the people who post crap here are not like that iRL. Please, don't even consider putting a leash on these players, or the whole divison, they are just having a little fun, I know that I'm right when I say they follow the rules when they're playing a real match.

*99%


DarkJake,
What people don't seem to understand is, when on this board is your only exposure to someone, that exposure taints you're view of that person IRL.

Hopefully, some time, Gym Leader Phil can tell you all a story about how he 'hated' POP and, to some (or a large) degree, me, because of the 'digital window' in which we were viewing each other. I too, was none to fond of him, or his attitude, because of the same reason.

One phone call, and nearly all of that was resolved. Phil undertands what we're about, and why I take the stance I do on these issues, and I find Phil to be one of the best resources we have as a Pokemon TCG advocate, and all around example of sportsmanship and maturity in the game today.

So, to recap. I hope you're right about BigChuck and the others. However, THEY are making the choice to present their first impression to the rest of the community this way. If they prove to me, in person, or through their actions, that they are truly 'stand up' individuals who are good for the game, they'll be in my good graces. However, until that time, I have nothing to go on except the words of 'digital' people on this 'digital' forum.

Prof. Dav
 
Well, I guess this is what it just boils down to.

Drew and Alex are great, although not necessarily popular with the mods and POP spokesmen. If they have something good to say, then someone should try to say it for them (just my personal feeling that Jim's posting of Drew's tournament report should have been kept unlocked as the Sceptile/Slowbro deck was a very enlightening deck, and helped balance the format out against rock-lock). But they'll keep on getting their (just) desserts from everyone 'til they behave.

Now this question I'm about to ask is a neutral question, but if Chuck and Drew apologized (fat chance but again, NEUTRAL question), what would you guys think? I'm not saying "unban t3h dr00z0rz!!!" 'cause I'm familiar with the ToS we sign up with. He and his sn's are gone.

Yeah, Nas is right. Back to the REAL stuff, or we won't win worlds 2005 :pokeball:
 
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Professor Dav said:
We use sales and trend data gathered through a number of different sources to tell us who is buying our products, where they're purchasing, and how much. We don't get this type of data from a customer who says "You make most of your money from me." We understand that ALL of our players spend a considerable amount of time and money on our product, and this is why we are constantly striving to improve our products and programs. This is a large reason that the company has committed over 2 million dollars per year for POP alone. This does not include any of the POP staff salaries either. This is money we give back to our consumers through our programs to improve and increase the value of the Pokemon TCG, both to our company, and our consumer.

I never said that your only method of knowing who buys your cards, and in what quantity, came only from statements from individuals, nor did I say that I cared. I buy boxes when I have free money to do so. Whether that's a little profit for PUI, POP or whoever makes the money from it, it means a lot more to me than it does to you when I've actually earned it. The point I was trying to make is that your job is to promote this card game, run tournaments, or what have you, and you're doing a bad job of it by alienating a large portion of people who purchase the product. If the individual does not buy the cards, you don't have a job. My point is that your attitude has made you lose a customer, and possibly more than just one.

You are free to interpret what I've posted earlier as you see fit. You'll interpret what I said in the way that you want, because that's human nature, just like we're doing with Chuck et al. However, realize you are engaging in EXACTLY the behavior you're accusing me of. You're saying that what is said on this 'unofficial' board cannot be held against someone, because it's unofficial, yet, aren't you doing exactly the same to me?

Yeah, except I don't represent the authority structure of the game this forum is based on. My decisions and behavior do not have as much impact as yours, in this case. What I'm doing to you is telling you that you just made an (it starts with an a and ends with two s's) of yourself because of something that has absolutely nothing to do with tournaments or anything else you should have your hand in. This being an independent board means that you should not be tossing out threats for a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with the issue this thread is discussing. Unless the kid said he was going to kill a mod at league or something, it's most likely not related to POP.

Nonetheless, it is a PUBLIC board, and you may post freely here, and say what you wish, and take on whatever 'persona' you wish. However, you WILL be judge by those who read your posts based upon the content and tone of your posts. There is nothing you can do about this, except, not post.

This is starting to lead more into my initial point, which is that your high and mighty tone has caused someone who has played this game for the past four years to quit investing money in it... Because every pack I buy helps retain your job. So in simpler terms, my judgment is that you're pretty much not a nice guy, to put it as politely and board acceptable as possible.

If you were to come on this board, and say "I'm going to beat up 'player A' if I see him at the State Championships this weekend", I guarantee that this office will take that very seriously, and will have issued punitive actions towards you in an effort to maintain the integrity and safety of our events and OUR PLAYERS. That's my job. That's why we have rules, and that's why they're enforced.

That's what you're supposed to be doing. No contest there. I can't say too much on this since I don't know what transpired exactly, but I can take a guess and say that that wasn't what got the kid banned.

My job is to make POP a fun, safe and friendly environment. You do not set that goal for me. My boss does. I do everything in my power to create this environment, and support it. I also think we're doing a darned good job of it thus far.

A lot of good things have happened for the game since Wizards took off. More prereleases, an actual tournament scene... I've got to give you that. I'm not saying you're not doing your job, or not doing it well. That's just incorrect.

Whether or not I 'mean jack' to you, doesn't matter to me. If you want to play in POP events, and have a chance to earn the prizes we've made available to you, the rules that we have created will in fact 'mean jack' to you, as you'll be bound by the rules of the program I am managing.

Again, YOU are the person who I am saying I have no respect for, not your game, not your rules. I have a problem with the attitude you are projecting here. Kind of like how certain people in positions of authority spoil our reputation in the rest of the world and put a bad light on us, you're making tournaments look just a little bit less appealing to me. It just seems like you take your position a tad more seriously than you need to, and it ends up with you exceeding your boundaries.

In summary, this may hard to swallow, but outside of Pokemon's trading card game, you're just like every one of the other members here. You're just one single person. I hold you in no higher regard for running the show for a card game. End of story. My problem, summed up, is that you're coming off as a serious (insert not nice name). Ban me, censor me, whatever, it needs to be said, and my sincerest apologies to everyone else here if that statement has repurcussions. That is not my intention. I have nothing to do with anyone else here, so let's just crucify me instead of 15+. Have a nice day, sir.
 
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I don't think people are understanding how bans work here on the 'gym.

Unless it's a particularly serious violation...registering a name and then spamming multiple forums with obscenities, for example...a ban ISN'T a 'one strike and you're out' thing.

Someone who gets permanently banned already has a string of rules violations and temporary bans on their name; it's NOT like they don't know what they're doing. They've been warned time and time again to clean up their act, or they're gone...and choose to ignore the warnings.

Keep playing with fire, and you're going to get burned...

'mom
 
I can see Chuck stepping out of the Pepsi truck with a Rock-Lock in one hand and a Pepsi in the other with his surrounding aura and dozens of babes all around him.
 
Actually I'm wondering how dave and mike got involved in this discussion, it went from a topic of unbanning a member whose conduct was less than sterling from a 15+ vs. POP slugfest. As of now, I can't see the 15+ group getting banned for the actions of a few of its players. Especially since the actions of these individuals is not typical of most of the members of this age group. I'm sure none of us have to worry about it. At least until we have another Dallas QT.
 
Ok, i really don't know why this has gone on for more than three posts... Let alone three pages!

The way i see it, Chuck was banned because he broke one, if not more, of the rules on this site. For doing so, some sort of punishment should be expected for his actions, whatever actions they may be... It's merely as simple as that! Now, if someone else was to be banned, such as a lesser player who acted the same way, no one would throw anywhere near the fit that certain 'Gym members are throwing right now! So, in that train of thought, that obviously justifies his 'bad actions and rule breaking' just because he is a highly ranked player??? This should not be so... Every member promises to abide by the same set of rules when they sign up for the 'Gym and, last time i checked anyway, nowhere in those rules does it warrent a 'null and void' on highly ranked and competitive players!

Besides, it's not like it's a permanent ban on Chuck. It's a mere month! I'm sure the Mods could have done worse if they saw fit, but it's only a month, barely a slap on the wrist, to a player who openly said last week he wasn't even going to post on these boards again, anyway... I mean, if he was totally banned i could see why certain 'Gym members would be upset, but it's just a freakin' MONTH! Come on, people! Do we really need to spend the next month argueing over why Chuck was punished for breaking the rules on the 'Gym, just to have him be able to post again BEFORE we're all finished argueing??? Do we really need to distract ourselves from preparations for Regionals and all of that just because we don't think Chuck, or other players for that matter, should have to adhear to the rules?

Also, for those of you argueing about how nice Chuck is in real life, all i have to say is 'So...?'

Just because someone is a quote unquote 'boy scout' or helpful or extreamly nice in person also, in no way, justifies their actions outside of 'real life'. As far as i'm concerned, these message boards are real life, i mean, they're all open to the public eye are they not? Because they are, there are certain rules and criteria (notice this recurring theme?) that the message board's members must adhear to, or else they shall have to suffer the consequences.

All in all, this should not be an issue of "Why was Chuck banned? He's a really good player!", it should be a realization to the fact that no one is above the rules... No matter how distingused or 1337 you are as a player...

Now, for me, this topic should be dead, mainly because this is just simply snowballing into what will be another flame war between 'Gym members and the Mods/Admin's/Nintendo... And, i hope, that sometime soon it will stop, that everyone will just DEAL with what happened, and continue on the 'Gym like they normally do...

Just my spare change...
 
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Hey,

Let us see here. Do I care if Drew or Alex is unbanned? No. Not particularly.I don't think its worth it to post on this board in the first place. While it may be " The biggest" Pokemon comunity online, it doesn't mean its one of the better. There are better sites with less moderation, and I think all of us have realized that what is offered at this board isnot what we want in a message board. Deck advice is minimal if that, and there is no freedom to goof around and have a fun time. It is great for current rulings and news updates, and it can be used for that.

Also, for those here who are upset with Dave and the others from POP, I'd like to say also that its not worth it, they are great guys, I have talked to them at Worlds, and through email, and there is no need to get into a big argument over it. As one of the stereotypical " 1337 " players ( I have been banned a great number of times, at least once not knowing it until a few months later when I bothered to post again, only to find out I had been unbanned by that point ) 15+ is in no danger of being lost. Don't try and use that scare tactic. The game is, IMO, in the best state it has ever been on the whole. It is stabilizing and becoming more global, and the OP is amazing.

I also think that while OPINIONS are perfectly fine to be formed based on a persons online "adventures" that using them against them outside of the message board is a bit crossing the line. Banning from the board is understandable. I could see banning from the status of being a professor. That is legitimate. A professor has made an agreement to represent certain ideals. I can live with such a punishment. If any effort is extended to ban a player based on public message board activity extends to banning from all tournaments and OP, that seems out of jurisdiction. It is as if I post on a random message board, call someone a few swear words, and get banned, and suddenly wind up unable to play Pokemon. Like it or not, what goes on here, and the eligibility to compete are completely unrelated.

I think what the moderators here may or may not understand is that all of this ruckus is nothing but a game these players are doing to get attention and get yelled at because they know it riles people up for them having fun. Your playing right into what they want, and it isn't going to end. If for a second you think anything that any of these people say is there honest opinion, your lying to yourself. All of them are very respectable people and are not "dangers to the game " at events. The fact people got worked up over the threat of " Flipping A Table " or " Talking 2 minutes for every shuffle " is funny, as it was a few guys deciding to use a thing called exaggeration and sattire to poke fun at things and make jokes. The fact so many took them seriously is pathetic.

In closing, unban Chuck, hes one of the few people to post legitimate decks, and actually makes the site interesting.But before certain people get the wrong impression of the POP guys, think twice. They are great guys and doing great things for this game, and I'm not one to suck up if I honestly didn't feel that way. Don't turn this into a bigger conflict, it doesn't need to be. Thats my request. If anything, unban Drew and Chuck, delete this thread, and see what happens. If things go badly again, ban them. I'd rather see this argument end, as both sides have illegitimate arguments. Plus, shouldn't we all still be preparing my World Champion 2005 Victory Party in San Diego? ;)
 
Tyranitar666 said:
I also think that while OPINIONS are perfectly fine to be formed based on a persons online "adventures" that using them against them outside of the message board is a bit crossing the line. Banning from the board is understandable. I could see banning from the status of being a professor. That is legitimate. A professor has made an agreement to represent certain ideals. I can live with such a punishment. If any effort is extended to ban a player based on public message board activity extends to banning from all tournaments and OP, that seems out of jurisdiction. It is as if I post on a random message board, call someone a few swear words, and get banned, and suddenly wind up unable to play Pokemon. Like it or not, what goes on here, and the eligibility to compete are completely unrelated.

POP bans players for thier activites at POP events, not for posting on this or any other board. We may remove you from certain programs, such as the Professor Program (it's been done at least once) for public statments. In those cases, as you mentioned, they've made an agreement to represent certain ideals.

POP/PUI aren't such hard cases that we'll suspend you for posting. We may keep a closer eye on your behavior at events due to posts that concern us, but it never goes beyond that.

While POP/PUI officially recognizes TC as rules team guys; PokeGym is their site. We have no control over how they run it, nor do we desire to have that control. POP has their own, private boards for that.
 
Thanks for replying. I agree 100% with what you said. I respect TC for all their contributions to the game so far, they have been doing it for a long time, and while I will admit I practically despise at least one of them, I think most of them are really cool and have done a lot for this game.
 
In closing, unban Chuck, hes one of the few people to post legitimate decks, and actually makes the site interesting.But before certain people get the wrong impression of the POP guys, think twice. They are great guys and doing great things for this game, and I'm not one to suck up if I honestly didn't feel that way. Don't turn this into a bigger conflict, it doesn't need to be. Thats my request. If anything, unban Drew and Chuck, delete this thread, and see what happens. If things go badly again, ban them. I'd rather see this argument end, as both sides have illegitimate arguments. Plus, shouldn't we all still be preparing my World Champion 2005 Victory Party in San Diego? ;)

I agree.

Unban Chuck so we can start discussing his World Champion 2005 Victory Party in San Diego with him!
 
Plead and petition all you want people. This is a privately owned board, with established rules as to what is and isn't acceptable. Chuck was given a 30 day ban for breaking those rules, and as the owners have said they are not changing that description. They own the board, their word is final. There is nothing you can do about it, if you don't like it, tough.
 
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