Why doesn't US Nationals....

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by drmario, Mar 17, 2008.

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  1. drmario

    drmario New Member

    ....do top 64? Last year was the first year my first year player pokemon, and my family and I drove 7 hours to Nationals. It was a very well run event considering how big it was and we had a lot of fun. However one thing that they did that doesn't make any sense is having top 32 for the Masters. There were over 400 masters playing. According to tournament guidelines there should be a top cut of 100 players. Obviously that isn't going to happen and I don't think it should. However they could do better than only letting ~8% of the players in. This years Nats will probably be bigger than last year. There really doesn't seem to be a good reason not to do a top 64. Here's why

    1. It would only add 1 round. Yep that's right about an hour and a half more. (that's counting the extra time for pairings and such)
    2. They have plenty of time for it. Last year the Nationals ending around 2PM on Sunday. Plenty of time for another round.
    3. They are only giving prizes to T16 this year. Some people say that everyone in the top cut should get prizes. Well this year, unless POP foolishly decides on T16 not everyone will get prizes anyway.
    4. ALL 7-2's deserve to make it. Last year there were many 7-2 people who did not make top cut. Yes it might let some 6-3 people in but going 6-3 at Nats isn't exactly easy to do.

    And before anyone says this is just sour grapes and that I think they should have done this so I could've made top cut last year, I went 5-4 and wouldn't have made it either way.
  2. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Time constraints are the biggest problem I think. If Origins gave pokemon the entire day on Sunday, there would be more time, but that isn't what happens.
  3. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    so why don't we move away from Origins?

    I think they have a contract right? If so, does anyone know when that contract expires?
  4. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    Top 64 would've been nice, but there's something still special about a t32 at nats. It means you actually dominated a large field by going 7-2 or better. It's prestigious.

    I do believe that a t64 cut would be MUCH more legit/fair.
  5. drmario

    drmario New Member

    I am in favor of them moving away from Origins. (like to Baltimore:thumb:) The whole free event but having to pay $70 for a badge doesn't really go together.

    As to time constraints, last year the side event Modified tournament that they ran parallel to SE ended AFTER the main event was over.

    Yes making T32 is special (i've never done it *sniff*) but with an even bigger event possible this year and the fact that 7-2's didn't make it last year means it will only get worse. The real problem is that it is COMPLETELY luck based if you go 7-2. So many people drop and ruin your OP win %. (Yes I know the minimum is 33% no matter what but they still lower it) The people who has less opponents drop will make it in.
  6. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    What is POP getting out of providing Origins with 70x500=35k at LEAST?

    I hope it's something good. That 35k could easily add the manpower for a better event with an extra swiss and top cut round and maybe even scholarship or prize boosts (giving all of t32 prizes ~_~)
  7. drmario

    drmario New Member

    Add more onto that total since many people have to come with their parent(s).
  8. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I understand that many pokemon people don't do anything other than pokemon at Origins, but I know many people that go to nationals over worlds because of the origins experience. They love to check out the exhibition hall and play new card games, and play board games, and role play and beat each other up with foam swords. If they moved Nationals away from origins, I know a handful of people that wouldn't even attend Nationals anymore. Of course, it's not the majority, or even a large number, but I thought it was worth mentioning that there are people that really like Nationals being at Origins.
  9. drmario

    drmario New Member

    There is a big anime convention and the Baltimore Convention Center that I think is around when Nationals is. (I've never been there)
    BTW I am one of those people who only goes there for Pokemon.
  10. The Gorn

    The Gorn Active Member

    It would cost too much to do a stand-alone event. Leasing space as part of the larger convention is MUCH cheaper apparently.
  11. drmario

    drmario New Member

    Couldn't POP charge a small entry fee for the event and use it to pay help pay for the venue? (I know they like having all their premier events free, but like I said it does cost money to get into Origins.)
  12. ARMondak

    ARMondak New Member

    It's clear that another round needs to be added somewhere, but I feel that we'd be better served with a 10th round of swiss. Another round of swiss satisfies everyone in the tournament since they get to keep playing. Assuming that Nats grows in size like it has in previous years, it would have a fairly clean cut with 8-2s or better in top 32, with some 7-3s making it in. I'd much rather do that instead of having 15 6-3s make it in a top 64, making it a resistance crapshoot.
  13. Burninating_Torchic

    Burninating_Torchic New Member

    Isn't it in POP's code of rules or whatever that top cut has to be roughly equivalent to something like 1/4 of the number of participants, or something?
    Going by that, we definitely need a top 64 at nats, especially in Masters.
  14. drmario

    drmario New Member

    It is but it they also set a max for each event. States has a max top cut of 8, Regionals has a max of 16. So for States as soon as you hit 32 people in a division you have a T8 but it won't go higher than that. Of course for Nationals the people who have power to change rules and stuff are there so they could do T64 if they wanted.
  15. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    i say we all start chanting 64 at Nats, "Who's with me?"
  16. drmario

    drmario New Member

    I booed them last year when they announced T32. (along with all the other masters. aren't we a mature bunch?) I like it though. We don't do anything until the give in. mwa ha ha ha ;).
  17. Mystery Thing

    Mystery Thing Administrator

    What he said. This will be my fifth time at Origins, and I totally love playing things I would never normally be able to play. Last year, in addition to all my Pokémon, I played in the D&D Minis 4 Noobs (ok, maybe that wasn't the real name) just for the heck of it. I don't like D&D. I don't play any miniatures games. It was merely for the experience of getting to play something new. I also played a pickup game of Run For Your Life, Candyman, just because the game had a weird name. I had never even heard of the game prior to flipping through the Origins program and finding it randomly, and now we play it fairly often at my house. I played a bunch of other stuff too, picked up a few games for my Virtual Boy for crazy cheap, etc. I go to Origins because it's a fun place to be. Now, granted, this year very little of that will happen, as I'll be doing the staff thing, but still.

    I know there's lots of people that only go for the Pokémon. But I am decidedly not one of them.
  18. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    I'm with you on that one. Come to think of it, what on earth would they do if 400+ masters started chanting that? :lol:
  19. rhodesia123

    rhodesia123 New Member

    yeah i think this would be a good idea. i dont see the prob in adding an extra 40 or so mins to the tourney
  20. TheDarkTwins

    TheDarkTwins Active Member

    I would be very disappointed if POP decided to move away from Origins and frankly I dont think they will. There are too many positives when compared to negatives. They sponsor Origins and that gives them advertising. They also I would assume get a cheaper rate because of this. Whether this actually does prevent cost I do now know. You also have to remember they have a booth at Nationals which helps get people who may have not been interested in the game to be.

    Top 64 is a good idea, but I dont think it is practical. I mean logically if you have 256 based on POP's rules you should, but where does it stop? If we max out the 512 players we would supposely have a T128 cut. Where do you draw the line? T32 is where you have to. I understand it can be hard for players who have a decent record at nats and miss the cut. I went 6-3 last year at Nationals and was 39th. I lost my last 2 rounds. If we had a T64 I would of made it but do I really deserve it for having a .667 winning percentage? Maybe, maybe not. I would of like to play in T32 but I didnt do well enough. However for someone like MK Choy who is a friend of mine, He went 7-2 and MISSED THE CUT! That is where we have a problem. That shouldnt happen. I know there is no way to fix that, but that is just my thoughts on this. I think T32 is fine for the time being as is Origins.

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