You know what really grinds my gears?

[amphy#1]

Hi Poke Gymers!! Welcome to the fist edition of grind my gears. :biggrin: In these discussions, we will talk about things that grind not only my gears, but yours as well. These are things that people and players let slide by, because they are too trivial to be noticed by higher ups. Here's the first one.

You know what really grinds my gears? Players who cut your deck in a stupid and ridiculous way, that they think that will mess you up, and help them win. Normally, a cut is supposed to be about half your deck. These players are doing things like taking a quarter, or 10th of your deck, and placing it on top of the bigger half. Some players take off the top 7 cards, and place them on the bottom. I know one player who takes the top card off of the deck and places it on the bottom. Do you call that cutting?

Here's why I'm so PO'ed. I play in tournaments, and league where I know mostly everyone there. They know I don't cheat. I also respect them enough to know that they don't cheat. But STILL, after I give my deck a good pile shuffle and such, they cut my deck like I tried to cheat or something. The thing is that I shuffle and cut everyone's deck the same. No exceptions. Some of these guys I play in league every night, and they know what type of person I am.

Why do they do this? Is it because they don't want to loose? Look, when 2 people face off, someone's going to win, and someone's going to loose. That's just the way the game goes. I know for a fact that Pokemon is a nice game where players don't have to worry about too much thievery, or cheating for that matter, because we train our staff and players to uphold certain standards when it comes to playing Pokemon.

When I play, I play to have fun weather I win, or loose. These premiere events are free, and there's really no guarantee that any one would win. Cutting one's deck like that is like wishing ill will on them. It's like a slap in the face. It's like giving them the finger, without the finger. I don't like it, and it needs to stop.

It's true that players still win even though their opponents cut the vejesus out of their deck. After games like that, I've seen players get really PO'ed because they thought that they did everything in their power to stop their opponent from winning. Let me tell you this. Cutting the deck like that doesn't stop them, it actually helps them!! Now you're feeling bad because you helped them win. This game is supposed to be fun. I know competing for scholarship money is pretty big, and we all want the best decks that will give us the chance to earn them. But you're not the only one in that same boat. EVERYONE playing this game wants the same thing.

This isn't yugioh, where the game is driven by money, and the masses of unorganized staff and players, where people feel like they have to do underhanded stuff to win. I know, I'm on both sides of the coin and I can tell you, it isn't fun playing someone in a game where you feel like your opponent is cheating, stacking,or you just want to win so badly that you become a jerk yourself and do some dirty stuff. It's not cool, And It hurts everyone around you. Have you ever seen decks that make top cut, knowing that their bad, but some how they're there, and they end up winning? Those are those underhanded players who cheat their way to the top. Those are the players you have to worry about. Pokemon players don't have to worry about that.

My advice is that you take that best deck (whatever it is), have some confidence, and play for fun. Cut your opponents deck the same way you would want to be respected and do your best. You may win, and you may loose. You've got to remember that everyone else is doing the same thing as you, and they have a chance to win just like you. Not only that, you're even friends with some of these players. You hang out with them even after leagues and tourneys, and you know them personally.

If there's anyone who feels like this and wants to help change the game for the better, feel free to post and comment on what you would like to see happen with this situation. If you feel like there isn't a problem, then you can voice your opinion as well. This isn't a troll. This is just me voicing my opinion about something I'm passionate about. If we work together, we can change the game for the betterment of all players.

Here are my points:
1. Shuffling and cutting is fine
2. single and numbered cuts aren't fine
3. pile shuffling, and crazy off the wall cuts aren't fine
4. Having fun with your friends and cutting their deck is fine
5. figuring out someones a stacker/cheater, and shuffling their deck to make it fair, is fine
6. shuffling everyone's deck like their a stacker/cheater (even people you know personally), is not fine
7. a judge cutting/shuffling the deck is fine.
8. You cutting/shuffling a deck out of superstition of loosing is not fine in my book.

Discuss. :smile:

 

[Amt]

I cut my opponent's deck in like three sections. Do I do it because I think they cheat? no. So why do I do it? I like to.

My guess is some people cut an opponent's deck the way they do because they like it. Also pretty sure you can't count out the amount of cards that you put on top/bottom of the deck when you cut (taking top card off, counting out 7 etc).

 

[mewbreon]

youre being rude, rash, and critical.

almost every single player i've ever talked to about this only does it out of superstition. its like the "i swipe my card across the table before i pick it up" kind of thing.
theyre just habits. many people who play cards have them. its kind of like blowing on your dice before you roll them. but you dont freak out and start a thread saying "MY DICE ARENT DIRTY!!! RAAA STOP BLOWING"

it doesnt have anything to do with cheating. when you pile shuffle, every knows you didnt cheat. theyre only doing it out of a luck-based superstition.

re. lax.

 

[Tagrineth]

You'd be amazed at the ingenuity of a good stacker. I've seen people pile shuffle, pick up the cards, and demonstrate a perfect hand.

Depending on the CCG's mechanics, different numbers of cards can be cut on purpose to defeat stackers - for example, at a Naruto SJC I went to, there was a guy identified as a stacker by one of the guys (a hardcore Yugioh player) we brought to the tournament. He cut exactly 12 cards off the top of the guy's deck - notably, the opening hand + the draws that would affect his curve. He proceeded to miss 3 drops and lose horribly.

In Pokemon I'd imagine a relatively ideal cut would be 13 cards - defeat the opening hand and all six prizes, assuming the stacker is talented enough to plan that far ahead.

 

[Porii Sames]

lol, I have ALWAYS wondered why people spend so much time cutting other peoples' decks. I mean, I see where they're coming from...and I don't really dislike it when it happens...

I do one card cuts. Messes people up every time .

Edit: Was I the only one that thought this would be a Klinklang thread?

 

[Tagrineth]

Edit: Was I the only one that thought this would be a Klinklang thread?

This is kinda what I was hoping for too hahaha.

 

[psychup2034]

If a player truly randomizes their deck, there would be no difference to that player how many times their opponent cut their deck. The cards would still be random.

The fact is that there are cheaters out there who stack their decks. Cutting your opponent's deck properly is just good practice.

 

[tehlizard]

A cut is just a cut. Don't look too far into it. I understand your anger at having someone be suspicious of your method of randomizing your deck, but at the end of the day, it's just a cut.

Also, lose, not loose.

 

[Donchamp]

XD, I thought this was going to be another of ampy's stupid netdecks with a fancy name too! XD

I thought this article was pointless, some people just like to cut a certain way. Pokemon is a knowledged base game, so people naturally want to do what they feel comfortable doing, SO as a result of that they cut your deck like that.
I think the people who take it personally the way I cut your deck are the ones who grind MY gears and really need to as my dad says "take a chill pill." Maybe you need a break from the pokemon TCG ampy.

 

[Happiny13]

1. I thought cuts were supposed to be random.
2. I usually cut once, on whatever part of the deck I grab. I don't have a specific way of doing things. If I'm suspicious then I'll shuffle.

 

[amphy#1]

youre being rude, rash, and critical.

almost every single player i've ever talked to about this only does it out of superstition. its like the "i swipe my card across the table before i pick it up" kind of thing.
theyre just habits. many people who play cards have them. its kind of like blowing on your dice before you roll them. but you dont freak out and start a thread saying "MY DICE ARENT DIRTY!!! RAAA STOP BLOWING"

it doesnt have anything to do with cheating. when you pile shuffle, every knows you didnt cheat. theyre only doing it out of a luck-based superstition.

re. lax.

Do you believe every superstition about black guys, or black cats, or stepping on a crack? Does it make you want to do things differently? No. You shouldn't believe everything you hear, or be afraid of facing the inevitable. I can see that sometimes you can get in a rhythm of doing a cut like that. And something like that sticks with you, until you play that one player who asks you to change that, because the way you cut is disrespectful to them. Some people are fine with it, because they'll do the same thing to your deck, basically condemning you to the same fate. If you think blowing on stuff will bring you good luck, then koodos. But I know there's a few of us who just play straight up, superstition or not. We are the ones who break tradition. Much like the decks that counter the meta.

I don't call it superstition. I just think we're all a little scared to loose that's all. And it's ok. I used to nerd rage all the time when I lost, and I used to cut players decks so crazy that they would literally be ready to fight me after I done it. I used to get so psyched about doing it too. I used to say stuff like: I'm gonna cut the crap out of your deck, and I'd give them a wicked smile too. They would give me the most serious face, shuffling my deck as fast as a rotating washing machine. It took me a long time to learn that this is just a fun game, and it should be treated as such. I've gained sooo many friends and met people I thought I'd never meet.

I don't like all the intimidation that it comes with either. It creates that superstition you talk about that affects players so much. I know everyone can't go into a tournament feeling like Ash Kechum, but a little bit of that slap happy stuff can go a long way. Actually, that's a superstition about Pokemon. Only when new players find out that they're just as cocky, strategic, ballsy, and superstitious as the rest of the world.

Maybe I'm too much like Ash, I don't know. I guess I'm a little superstitious too. Because I believe that Pokemon players are supposed to be different than others. Don't get me wrong, Pokemon players are niceer, kinder, than most gamers. That's what I love about the game. It's just sometimes, I see the darkside of people who want to win.

---------- Post added 05/24/2011 at 08:21 PM ----------

You'd be amazed at the ingenuity of a good stacker. I've seen people pile shuffle, pick up the cards, and demonstrate a perfect hand.

Depending on the CCG's mechanics, different numbers of cards can be cut on purpose to defeat stackers - for example, at a Naruto SJC I went to, there was a guy identified as a stacker by one of the guys (a hardcore Yugioh player) we brought to the tournament. He cut exactly 12 cards off the top of the guy's deck - notably, the opening hand + the draws that would affect his curve. He proceeded to miss 3 drops and lose horribly.

In Pokemon I'd imagine a relatively ideal cut would be 13 cards - defeat the opening hand and all six prizes, assuming the stacker is talented enough to plan that far ahead.

You have a point there. Some stackers can shuffle there decks perfectly, and make it look like they're not cheating, and still pull everything they need. The thing is that I am a yugioh player, and I can recognize stacking and stackers when I see them. I don't usually draw attention to myself to let people know this. Everyone thinks I'm a nice, happy go lucky guy who they basically underestimate, because I am so. But when I notice something funny, I switch gears a little and put them in check.

Now I know you just can't go up to a judge and tell him/her that you thing so n so is a stacker. they wouldn't believe you. So the only thing you can do is take of their top cards, hoping that they'll choke and regret stacking the deck in the first place. It creates tension between both players. The stacker knows what you just did to them. Do you think they're going play nicely? They're so PO'ed because they can't do anything about it, and they have to go with it. You can tell when someone is like that. That's not a fun match at all.

I agree that it should be fair, and you should make your game as fair as possible. Maybe I'm wrong in believing things should be fair. And maybe you should worry about your opponent stacking. That's what this thread is for. to figure out what's right, and to come to a common ground.

 

[z-man]

Wow dude. CALM DOWN. Cutting, at the high tables, is a very respectful action. If I offer you my deck, it shows that I am ready to play fair. Cuts are supposed to ensure randomness of the deck. Doing a "normal" cut is fine, but there is nothing wrong with doing a "fun" cut. That being said, it should not be insane like a pile shuffle and what not. It should not take a while, but it can be different. No one is scared to lose when we cut. When people cut, they merely ensure the randomness of their opponents' decks. I want my deck to be in a completely random order by my standards. I also want my opponents' deck to be in a completely random order. My standards for randomness might be different from another person's standards. Because of this, I'll shuffle my opponent's deck when offered a cut. This is not because I don't want to lose, but because I want the game to be fair. I am happy to lose a fair game. When the game is unfair in any way (and thus the deck is still in some form of a predictable order), I cease to enjoy the game. I will do this regardless of my opponent. From Ness to my best friend to some n00b to some pro who I don't know, I will cut their decks equally.

Finally, cuts sometime have a form of uniqueness behind them. For example, at league, I'll do my normal cut and then cut the top card (if it is a friend, I'll show him or her the 1 card I cut for teh lulz). This has become known as "the Vegas Cut" because it primarily came from Las Vegas. Not too many people I know do this, so it makes my actions seem somewhat unique. I enjoy separating myself from the other 800 people playing at a large event (i.e. nats) in some way, shape, or form. Having my opponent smile because of seeing me do something they have never seen is always gratifying. I do it as a form of respect more than disrespect. If I totally disrespect you, I would not really care to cut your deck in a unique way. I'll just ensure that you aren't cheating.




How does this affect you, by the way? Is it just misunderstood actions, or are you actually cheating?

 

[MarxForever]

Whenever I play my best friend in Yugioh, I always take the top card off of his deck and put it on the bottom...
Just to be an ***.

 

[amphy#1]

XD, I thought this was going to be another of ampy's stupid netdecks with a fancy name too! XD

I thought this article was pointless, some people just like to cut a certain way. Pokemon is a knowledged base game, so people naturally want to do what they feel comfortable doing, SO as a result of that they cut your deck like that.
I think the people who take it personally the way I cut your deck are the ones who grind MY gears and really need to as my dad says "take a chill pill." Maybe you need a break from the pokemon TCG ampy.

Hey!! I don't netdeck!! People netdeck off of me. I do love cool deck names though :lol:

I can be serious somewhat, and post good content sometimes. :smile: I know that sometimes you get that bad feeling when somebody is cutting your deck all crazy, that you don't like it. Some times they cut it so bad, that they break your sleeves, sometimes their hands are filthy, and they're getting gunk all over your sleeves. But it doesn't happen all the time. And some players are content with the way their opponent shuffles.

I love this game too much to leave it. It's the first game I played, and it's my favorite. I wouldn't be worrying about this if I didn't love it.

 

[Pajamas]

I do one card cuts. Messes people up every time .

Maybe you should stop doing that, since it's not legal.

 

[Porii Sames]

That's weird...

I've done it at multiple tourneys, in clear sight of TO's/judges, and even in Top Cut, and no one has said anything to me about it...

I've even done it to my local PTO in a game once and he said nothing about it...

 

[amphy#1]

Wow dude. CALM DOWN. Cutting, at the high tables, is a very respectful action. If I offer you my deck, it shows that I am ready to play fair. Cuts are supposed to ensure randomness of the deck. Doing a "normal" cut is fine, but there is nothing wrong with doing a "fun" cut. That being said, it should not be insane like a pile shuffle and what not. It should not take a while, but it can be different. No one is scared to lose when we cut. When people cut, they merely ensure the randomness of their opponents' decks. I want my deck to be in a completely random order by my standards. I also want my opponents' deck to be in a completely random order. My standards for randomness might be different from another person's standards. Because of this, I'll shuffle my opponent's deck when offered a cut. This is not because I don't want to lose, but because I want the game to be fair. I am happy to lose a fair game. When the game is unfair in any way (and thus the deck is still in some form of a predictable order), I cease to enjoy the game. I will do this regardless of my opponent. From Ness to my best friend to some n00b to some pro who I don't know, I will cut their decks equally.

Finally, cuts sometime have a form of uniqueness behind them. For example, at league, I'll do my normal cut and then cut the top card (if it is a friend, I'll show him or her the 1 card I cut for teh lulz). This has become known as "the Vegas Cut" because it primarily came from Las Vegas. Not too many people I know do this, so it makes my actions seem somewhat unique. I enjoy separating myself from the other 800 people playing at a large event (i.e. nats) in some way, shape, or form. Having my opponent smile because of seeing me do something they have never seen is always gratifying. I do it as a form of respect more than disrespect. If I totally disrespect you, I would not really care to cut your deck in a unique way. I'll just ensure that you aren't cheating.




How does this affect you, by the way? Is it just misunderstood actions, or are you actually cheating?

I actually agree with most of this. I too shuffle my opponents deck like that. That's what I'm talking about. when they pile shuffle,or do crazy off the wall stuff that really ticks you off.

Now I have no problem with players having fun and doing cuts like that. But that's when both players know what's happening and they can enjoy playing against each other. If I met you I probably wouldn't mind you cutting my deck like that, depending on how we introduce ourselves. That's another part of it too. When You introduce yourself and put your heart out there, then to have your opponent give you the silent treatment, and a stale face. You totally switch gears and become as stale as them. At that point, you don't even care about how you cut their deck, just as long as you beat the crap out of them (in the game that is)

Am I cheating? :lol: How can you think that? I'm a shuffleholic and sometimes it upsets me when players do weird things that's all. I'm usually ok with most people cutting/shuffling my deck though. I'm just giving a voice to those that get upset from time to time. Plus,It's just good to talk about it, rather than hold it in and let it explode in some heated matchup.

---------- Post added 05/24/2011 at 09:18 PM ----------

Whenever I play my best friend in Yugioh, I always take the top card off of his deck and put it on the bottom...
Just to be an ***.

You sir are exactly what you say you are. You are a prime example of what I'm talking about. You are the type of player that ruins the spirit of the game for everyone. You turn good people into someone like you who doesn't give a crap . I hope you get exactly what you deserve from your opponent when you do that to them.

 

[waynegg]

A player can't cut the top 1, or 7, or x, etc. cards from your deck because that's a counted cut and not a random cut.

Personally I just shuffle my opponent's decks.

That's weird...

I've done it at multiple tourneys, in clear sight of TO's/judges, and even in Top Cut, and no one has said anything to me about it...

I've even done it to my local PTO in a game once and he said nothing about it...

Just because it has slipped by unnoticed as of yet, doesn't make it legal.

 

[Aron Figaro]

I'll be honest - I've seen a lot of cheating among Pokemon players, mostly at top tables in major tournaments. A simple cut won't do much for the kinds of stacks we see in Pokemon, but you still have the right to shuffle your opponent's deck - and if he refuses, a judge can do it for you. Deck stacking is FAR more common than you think, and I've seen quite a few cheap card tricks over the years. Someone also needs to tell P!P that their policy to avoid loaded dice isn't terribly good, and that the only way randomizers are going to remain fair is if they come with the _table_, not with the player. They _should_ be allowing hard-edged dice, as well - as much as they can be questionably nice to cards, a little courtesy on the part of players can go a long way to get more precision.

Seriously, P!P, shipping the TO of every MAJOR (not a BR, maybe not even Cities, but at least States or higher, jeez) a case of casino dice will NOT break the bank. Heck, put a pokemon logo on them, make them a promotional item that you get to keep when you finish your last table, then people get precision dice to bring to smaller tournaments too!

As for stacked decks...there's really not a lot that can be done except random deck checks (already happens) and attentive opponents. I'll agree that you don't see as many cheaters as some other games, but Pokemon players sure aren't saints, especially some of the self-appointed "elite".

 

[z-man]

Well you seem to be implying something that we are not assuming. From your response to my post, you seem to be talking about really crazy stuff (like pile shuffling). If the cut takes too much time and disrupts the flow of the game, that is stalling. I've seen a friend take a 52 card deck (normal poker deck), riffle it a few times, and tell me the top 5 cards accurately. Some people are crazy good at cheating. Thankfully, this friend does not cheat during gaming. If he wanted to, though, he could easily cheat during game.

Your complaint, though, is still unfounded. Bad cutting (pile shuffling) should be called for disrupting the flow of the game. Cuts should only take a second at most. For everything else, cuts are fine. Special cuts (rules permitting) have nothing wrong with them.