ZPS (Zekrom/Pachi/Shay)

[PhadedPhione]

you don't need kingdra to be attacking the reshiram as your zekrom OHKOs it with a Kingdra Spray Splash.

While this deck may be fast, and hits hard the auto damage isn't really useful.

After T2 when you have your first Zekrom out, how do you power up the second one? If you keep doing 120 and self hitting for 40 your just making it easier for your opponent to come back on you, especially with twins in the format. Don't get me wrong, I think it'll be a good Tier 2 maybe even a lower Tier 1 deck. But by no means is it the BDIF.

Play a second Zekrom, Shaymin the energy to it, 2nd Zekrom powered up. Play switch or super scoop up. Obvious plays are hard mode.

 

[DarthPika]

Hey, weavile#1, I hope you credit me for the Kingdra Prime tech!

Better idea...

If you want credit for an idea, build the deck your self and be the one to make YOUR idea known. The second you post an idea (a fairly bad one at that) here, you kind of can't just say, "oh, give me credit for that".

 

[SuicidalPikachu]

When I build the deck I will definitely test both but right now and on paper, I feel that kingdra is better

i like the idea of kingdra, but things that look good on paper aren't necessarily good in practice. I'm a huge stickler about consistency, and idk, i can just see those kingdras, seadras, and candies just clogging your hand. When you take a speed deck and add in a slow card, you hurt the thing that makes the deck good. I believe that you're better off with a 2-2 yanmega and some pluspowers over the Kingdra line. But that's just my thoughts.

 

[weavile#1]

Ok... ignore everything the good players have told you. Have a nice time at the bottom tables, along with everyone else who decided the were too good to listen or something.

You haven't provided any advice.

Hey, weavile#1, I hope you credit me for the Kingdra Prime tech!

If I do good in a tourney I will

you don't need kingdra to be attacking the reshiram as your zekrom OHKOs it with a Kingdra Spray Splash.

While this deck may be fast, and hits hard the auto damage isn't really useful.

After T2 when you have your first Zekrom out, how do you power up the second one? If you keep doing 120 and self hitting for 40 your just making it easier for your opponent to come back on you, especially with twins in the format. Don't get me wrong, I think it'll be a good Tier 2 maybe even a lower Tier 1 deck. But by no means is it the BDIF.

I do agree that I do need to work on the recovery. I need to add a 2nd flower shop lady just in case 1 gets discarded from junipers. Any ideas?

i like the idea of kingdra, but things that look good on paper aren't necessarily good in practice. I'm a huge stickler about consistency, and idk, i can just see those kingdras, seadras, and candies just clogging your hand. When you take a speed deck and add in a slow card, you hurt the thing that makes the deck good. I believe that you're better off with a 2-2 yanmega and some pluspowers over the Kingdra line. But that's just my thoughts.

Even though I prefer Kingdra, I agree with the consistency issues that kingdra would give to this otherwise fast deck. I will do the 2-2 yanmega and play some pluspowers thanks.

EDIT: How does the list look now? Do you think it needs copycat/judge? I fit in a 2-2 yanmega along with 3 pluspowers and 1 more flower shop lady.

 

[DarthPika]

In bold...............

You haven't provided any advice.

I have, as has Jimmy, among several other players who know what they're talking about. You have chosen to ignore them.

If I do good in a tourney I will

Don't worry about having to credit anyone for a horrible, unusable tech. You will be bad, and you will fail. Please, use this deck. I want to see just how badly someone can lose in a big event.

I do agree that I do need to work on the recovery. I need to add a 2nd flower shop lady just in case 1 gets discarded from junipers. Any ideas?

No joke... You also need to work on your HORRIBLE Donphan matchup, as well as finding a way to keep the deck running over a long game.

Even though I prefer Kingdra, I agree with the consistency issues that kingdra would give to this otherwise fast deck. I will do the 2-2 yanmega and play some pluspowers thanks.

Kingdra is so bad in this, it's laughable that you would even try it. Yanmega is better, but still not great. Try to find something that actually has synergy, or it will fail. The Pluspower is also much more useful in the long run. Run Junk Arm to ensure you can get it back.

EDIT: How does the list look now? Do you think it needs copycat/judge?

Yes.

I fit in a 2-2 yanmega along with 3 pluspowers and 1 more flower shop lady.

Try to find room for that 4th PP.

That's only a start to the numerous problems this has. You seem to FINALLY be listening to some advice. Keep it up, and maybe you wont fail horribly.

 

[waynegg]

A wise person (not that I'm accusing you of this, so please don't be offended) knows when to listen to experience, but thus far you've totally buffed off other good deck builders and players who have attempted to give you advice on fixing this mess. So I'm positive you won't listen to me either, but hey! it's worth a shot!

Donphan absolutely murders this deck whether you want to accept it or not and it's going to see plenty of play. I'm sure you've tested against it with your friends who don't play as well as you. I'm also sure you haven't tested against someone who actually knows what they're doing.

Yanmega has no place in this deck. When you don't have the cards in the build to abuse its Body it is a complete waste of space.

Energy Search does zero for you. It can't search specials and you only have one type of basic Energy. You may as well just replace them WITH energy if you can't come up with something better than that.

And then there's this:

4 Pokemon Collector
3 Pokemon communication
3 dual ball

How much Pokemon search do you really think you need for a deck that's pretty much a haymaker with a single stage 1? I'll give you a hint- Not near that much! You're just setting yourself up for dead draws and a hand littered with cards that are doing you no good.

Then there's Junk Arm. Generally a great card. But with this Trainer list? Seriously? What are you gonna Junk arm for? You've already gotten all of your needed resources out of your deck and there's literally nothing left worth digging for!

3 Scoops and 3 Seeker? Overkill! Max the Seeker; drop the SSU and put something in the slot that will actually help you.

There's so much dead space in this deck and redundancies for redundancies that I don't doubt you can get the cards out. But they won't particularly being doing anything good for you once you do. If you really want the help with the deck (since it is in that forum) then accept it. Otherwise you're just saying look at what I made and not seeing it for what it is.

 

[EvanBaker]

A wise person (not that I'm accusing you of this, so please don't be offended) knows when to listen to experience, but thus far you've totally buffed off other good deck builders and players who have attempted to give you advice on fixing this mess. So I'm positive you won't listen to me either, but hey! it's worth a shot!

Donphan absolutely murders this deck whether you want to accept it or not and it's going to see plenty of play. I'm sure you've tested against it with your friends who don't play as well as you. I'm also sure you haven't tested against someone who actually knows what they're doing.

Yanmega has no place in this deck. When you don't have the cards in the build to abuse its Body it is a complete waste of space.

Energy Search does zero for you. It can't search specials and you only have one type of basic Energy. You may as well just replace them WITH energy if you can't come up with something better than that.

And then there's this:

4 Pokemon Collector
3 Pokemon communication
3 dual ball

How much Pokemon search do you really think you need for a deck that's pretty much a haymaker with a single stage 1? I'll give you a hint- Not near that much! You're just setting yourself up for dead draws and a hand littered with cards that are doing you no good.

Then there's Junk Arm. Generally a great card. But with this Trainer list? Seriously? What are you gonna Junk arm for? You've already gotten all of your needed resources out of your deck and there's literally nothing left worth digging for!

3 Scoops and 3 Seeker? Overkill! Max the Seeker; drop the SSU and put something in the slot that will actually help you.

There's so much dead space in this deck and redundancies for redundancies that I don't doubt you can get the cards out. But they won't particularly being doing anything good for you once you do. If you really want the help with the deck (since it is in that forum) then accept it. Otherwise you're just saying look at what I made and not seeing it for what it is.

Waynegg:

You used all the same lines about "listening to experience" when you were trying to convince everyone that LostGar was a force to be reckoned with before it was released, even going as far as to personally insult anyone who didn't agree with you. Then the deck fell flat on it's face and didn't win anything meaningful the entire American States or Regionals season.

From your "suggestions," I can tell you haven't tested Zekrom at all. Now, I don't have a problem with making suggestions, even if they aren't tactically correct. The problem is the attitude that you and your compatriot DarkthPika have - the whole "listen to us because we're experienced" thing. No one cares that you've played since base set. Show me some medals or a half decent rating and I'll tip my hat. But the "suggestions" on this thread, and often on this site in general, are so entitled and pompous that it makes sense why no one wants to listen to you.

---------- Post added 05/03/2011 at 11:54 PM ----------

Case and point, DarthPika's "keep it up and maybe you won't fail horribly" crack above.

 

[SuicidalPikachu]

don't turn this thread into a flame war guys, it won't get you anywhere. While i agree that Yanmega doesn't have synergy with the deck, it provides a much needed resistance to donphan in order to better the match-up. However with Yanmega yes, you do need Judge and Copycat.

 

[mewbreon]

ok...
so right now (i dont want to comment like waynegg and just yell at you for being redundant in your build...but....)
your build is redundant. lol
so... heres a suggestion. this is just off the top of my head, so it may not be perfect, but these were all VERY obvious to me.....

-1 Pokemon Collector
-1 Professor Juniper
-1 junk arm
-3 energy search
-3 super scoop up
-2 energy retrieval
-1 revive
-1 flower shop lady
+1 pluspower
+2 switch
+2 seeker
+2 judge
+2 copycat (since youre playing yanmega)

you were running 3 retrieval, 2 revive, and 2 flower shop lady. to me, thats insane. that is TEXT BOOK definition of dead draw my friend.

plus now you have room for 4 more cards. (if i did my math right lol)
make them useful, and make them improve your late game. if your going to use those 4 spots for a pokemon (i.e. 2-2 or 2-1-1) then it has to have synergy with whats happening with the deck.

 

[Politoed666]

Stop flaming.

They run Yanmega in here in Japan and it's the BDIF. Just sayin'.

 

[mewbreon]

Stop flaming.

They run Yanmega in here in Japan and it's the BDIF. Just sayin'.

oh really?
i LIVE in japan.....

not many run yanmega

kthxbye

 

[DarthPika]

^ Not to mention Japan has a different format... :/

You've got to love how all the n00bs come out to support each other when someone dares to tell them that they're wrong.

 

[mewbreon]

^ Not to mention Japan has a different format... :/

You've got to love how all the n00bs come out to support each other when someone dares to tell them that they're wrong.

haha couldnt have said it better

 

[EvanBaker]

^ Not to mention Japan has a different format... :/

You've got to love how all the n00bs come out to support each other when someone dares to tell them that they're wrong.

The problem isn't with the information you're giving. These forums exist for the purpose of the exchange of ideas regarding the game, so your suggestions are always welcome. The problem begins when you back your suggestions with an "I'm a PokeVeteran, listen to me or you'll fail hard" attitude... which you've done several times throughout this thread.

"Have a nice time at the bottom tables"

"Keep taking my advice and maybe you won't fail too horribly"

"n00b"

Seeing a pattern? We can all be informative and helpful without flexing our PokeMuscles and hurling insults.

 

[SuicidalPikachu]

This is a deck help thread guys, let's try to keep it on topic. It's his thread, if he doesn't want to incorporate your advice that is his choice. Just give your advice and keep moving. If you want to support your opinion, support it with actual support instead of bashing him for not listening to you, it doesn't do him any good.

Trainers: 32
4 Pokemon Collector
2 Professor Juniper
3 Pokemon communication
2 dual ball
2 junk arm
4 Judge
2 Copycat
2 energy retrieval
4 pluspowers
2 revive
3 switch
3 seeker
1 flower shop lady

My fixes are in bold, Tried to get rid of some of the dead draws you will end up having for some more reliable cards, not a fan of SSU in a deck with very little consistent draw, i find seeker to be more solid of a choice, but 4 would lead to dead draw. You shouldn't need to do your combo more than like 3-4 times in any given game, any more means that you are probably out of the game anyway.

 

[chrataxe]

You used all the same lines about "listening to experience" when you were trying to convince everyone that LostGar was a force to be reckoned with before it was released, even going as far as to personally insult anyone who didn't agree with you. Then the deck fell flat on it's face and didn't win anything meaningful the entire American States or Regionals season.

Actually, it won 5 states....and, when you consider that Vilegar won another 5, that means Gengar varients won 10 states....and, yes, Vilegar and Lostgar are different decks, lets not act like they are completely different. In most decks, Vilegar ran a 1-2-1 Prime-SF-X while Lostgar ran a 1-2-1 SF-Prime-X. Its not hard to throw in a lost world tech into Vilegar and win via stadium, its also not hard to start Poltergeisting with SF in Lostgar....

 

[EvanBaker]

Actually, it won 5 states....and, when you consider that Vilegar won another 5, that means Gengar varients won 10 states....and, yes, Vilegar and Lostgar are different decks, lets not act like they are completely different. In most decks, Vilegar ran a 1-2-1 Prime-SF-X while Lostgar ran a 1-2-1 SF-Prime-X. Its not hard to throw in a lost world tech into Vilegar and win via stadium, its also not hard to start Poltergeisting with SF in Lostgar....

That's like saying I play Uxie donk because I have 2 Uxie in my LuxChomp deck. Read any tourney report from any "Lostgar" player who won something and you'll see Gengar Prime/Lost World was a 2 or 3 card tech in an otherwise VileGar list that netted them a max 2 wins per tourney. The LostGar list WayneGG was peddling as format breaking and raging at anyone who disagreed was 40 cards different than VileGar w/Gengar Prime tech.

But all of that is beside the point, which is that there are people on this site who LIVE to come on the deck help forums and rip people (likely 13 year old kids) for their subpar lists, using their "experience" as ammunition to belittle another person. Suggestions are great. Throwing a temper tantrum or resorting to name-calling because someone doesn't listen to your suggestion is childish and drives new players away from the game.

 

[mewbreon]

im going to have to side with darthpika here....
the reason people play TCGs is because we enjoy the intellectual challenge and stimulation that the game provides, much like chess, or other games of the sort.
whats so different about TCGs vs. games like chess, is not only the constant changing of metagame, alteration of format, "new combos" etc, etc, etc., but the fact that there is a community dedicated to raising the awareness of those above listed factors to players who are otherwise ignorant of them.
so when players with more experience (or as evanbaker calls it: bigger pokemuscles) try to help the players who are less experienced or not as good, it is almost mind-blowing how they will take the help and shove it in your face.

rather than getting this scenario: "hmm sounds like a solid plan, ill maybe test it out. thanks for the advice, better player."

we get
"n0 yooz dunt know wut yer talkig about seventeen (insert random pokegym meme that insinuates a vast knowlege of gym-dom here). i made a .deck thats going to win everygameee!!"

why even bother posting on the gym if thats what youre going to do?
granted, i DO understand that name-calling/ insult throwing is immature and uncalled for... but come on people... if you you want to ACTUALLY get better at the game... open your doors to advice.

 

[EvanBaker]

im going to have to side with darthpika here....
the reason people play TCGs is because we enjoy the intellectual challenge and stimulation that the game provides, much like chess, or other games of the sort.
whats so different about TCGs vs. games like chess, is not only the constant changing of metagame, alteration of format, "new combos" etc, etc, etc., but the fact that there is a community dedicated to raising the awareness of those above listed factors to players who are otherwise ignorant of them.
so when players with more experience (or as evanbaker calls it: bigger pokemuscles) try to help the players who are less experienced or not as good, it is almost mind-blowing how they will take the help and shove it in your face.

rather than getting this scenario: "hmm sounds like a solid plan, ill maybe test it out. thanks for the advice, better player."

we get
"n0 yooz dunt know wut yer talkig about seventeen (insert random pokegym meme that insinuates a vast knowlege of gym-dom here). i made a .deck thats going to win everygameee!!"

why even bother posting on the gym if thats what youre going to do?
granted, i DO understand that name-calling/ insult throwing is immature and uncalled for... but come on people... if you you want to ACTUALLY get better at the game... open your doors to advice.

Scroll up and quote me a spot where the OP was ever disrespectful, rude, or said anything resembling, "n0 yooz dunt know wut yer talkig about seventeen (insert random pokegym meme that insinuates a vast knowlege of gym-dom here). i made a .deck thats going to win everygameee!!"

Now scroll up and find places where the "experienced player" was rude or disrespectful.

I rest my case.

 

[mewbreon]

your correct the OP was not disrespectful. just closed-minded.