hectagonman
New Member
Gallade is the perfect counter. It does 150.
Anti Wailord Tech
- Thread starter TODDakaESTEBAN
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TODDakaESTEBAN
New Member
gallade doesn't do 150 to wailord and if you think it does it's obvious that you can't come up with the reason it doesn't on your own, or you haven't even seen the way everyone will play wailord, I mean it's been posted on this very thread dozens of times
if gallade was the counter, why would i, as a gallade player, make a thread about how hard it is for gallade to beat and how i think a simple tech would make the matchup much easier
if gallade was the counter, why would i, as a gallade player, make a thread about how hard it is for gallade to beat and how i think a simple tech would make the matchup much easier
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hectagonman
New Member
I see the way everyone will play Wailord, very slowly. In most games attaching 1 DRE is a lot faster than attaching 3 water and a WP. Wailord fails. Everyway except HP. Terrible card.
TODDakaESTEBAN
New Member
wailord will have energy acceleration, and even if it didn't it only takes 1 w and 1 wp to stop sonic blade if you get T2 gallade candy, unkown g is searchable so if you have that god start and a windstorm consistantly,then i would like to buy your list because i'm no longer afraid of wailord
hectagonman
New Member
I fail to see any decent Water acceleration. I also fail to see how you can rely on 4 cards to win you a matchup. I also fail to see how 60 damage for 4 will get you ANYWHERE.
TODDakaESTEBAN
New Member
it gets you somewhere quite mathmatically, gallade is hitting for 50-70 per turn and wailord is hitting for 60, so wailord knocks out gallade before gallade knocks out wailord
the energy acceleration is leafeon x, as i have seen people talk about or blastoise
as for the wp's something as simple as pokenav can get them out fast and unkown g is searchable, you'll probably waste windstorms on leftovers anyway
the energy acceleration is leafeon x, as i have seen people talk about or blastoise
as for the wp's something as simple as pokenav can get them out fast and unkown g is searchable, you'll probably waste windstorms on leftovers anyway
hectagonman
New Member
Leafeon LV X doesn't come out next set. Blastoise just makes Wailord go 1 turn faster without damage. Gallade is doing 50-70 while actually having the ability to knock out every current major archetype. While Wailord has the ability to sleep in front of all decks. I don't see why you are defending this new pokemon. It's like defending Torterra. Really high HP, Expensive attack, Heals itself, High Retreat cost.
TODDakaESTEBAN
New Member
the only reason i defend it is because gallade IS the major archetype and so is morter so if it beats them it beats all the major archetypes,
everyone's points to discredit wailord are VERY valid, and like i say there prob won't be any good wailords out there, definately not enough to justify teching,
i also bet all my chips on leafeon and i don't consider blastoise wailord to be that good, but the waterlog that you reffered to as letting wailord attack one turn earlier, will also be used to set up benched wailords, so yes it only speeds it up by one turn if you even have that luck, but by the time the original wailord is dead, one will have been charged by the same waterlog and one could be manually powered
unfortunately even blastoise blissey is hard to pull off so i doubt that wailord blastoise will be nearly consistant enough to beat gallade or morter,
everyone's points to discredit wailord are VERY valid, and like i say there prob won't be any good wailords out there, definately not enough to justify teching,
i also bet all my chips on leafeon and i don't consider blastoise wailord to be that good, but the waterlog that you reffered to as letting wailord attack one turn earlier, will also be used to set up benched wailords, so yes it only speeds it up by one turn if you even have that luck, but by the time the original wailord is dead, one will have been charged by the same waterlog and one could be manually powered
unfortunately even blastoise blissey is hard to pull off so i doubt that wailord blastoise will be nearly consistant enough to beat gallade or morter,
Wailord can survive any attack from any pokemon that currently sees play and doesn't nail its weakness. It's body allows it to heal itself, and bieng a water type means it can take advantage of Holon WP. Yes, blablabla, 5 energy, you can get lots of free prizes, blablabla, its not like you are going to be taking any prizes once I setup. 60 isn't much damage, but after two turns, it is. Three turns? Thats easily a prize, and might be me working on my second one. And don't pretent you are going to take my Wailord down in two shots, not with 200 hp and self healing, I won't even get into using my own healing cards.
Wailord has 200 HP and can heal itself, that is what it can do that Blissey cannot, it can stay alive for a ridiculously long amount of time. Even dealing half decent damage it simply WON'T DIE, and THAT is what makes it so deadly Prime, that it will win a battle of attrition every time.
(TYranitarFReak)
New Member
IMO xatu-wailord or blasty-wailord aren't gonna work as good as people think they would.
After some play testing with ^those 2 decks, I would really recommend some form of draw power; delcatty or claydol or porygon 2. Wailord itself isnt that amazing, so it needs to be paired with a drawer and energy accel.
After some play testing with ^those 2 decks, I would really recommend some form of draw power; delcatty or claydol or porygon 2. Wailord itself isnt that amazing, so it needs to be paired with a drawer and energy accel.
TODDakaESTEBAN
New Member
that's what i mean about blastoise and wailord, even blastoise blissey is inconsistant and bliss attacsk for 1 energy
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Just some random thoughts Prime ... folks ended using Holon FF on Blissey because of decks like Mario hitting weakness but in general Holon WP was better against the field. Wailord can abuse WP and has other ways of getting rid of weakness (Ray d / Blastoise d). Wailord heals itself & when combined with other methods of healing and it's super high HP it has much more staying power than Blissey.
I think that folks are also thinking of it as a Magmortar counter, which it is moreso than Blissey.
I think that folks are also thinking of it as a Magmortar counter, which it is moreso than Blissey.
Regis_Neo
Moderator
I think Wailord is pretty nice. 200 HP is great, currently there is no attack in the game capable of an OHKO without at least attempting to add Weakness (only thing I can think of right now that can OHKO is Electivire SW with 4 Energy, flipping all Heads). For most Pokemon, it's a 3HKO that'll require a sacrifice to KO (unless you have 130+ HP and aren't weak to Water so you can take 2 potential hits from Wailord); 2HKOs are possible, but few Pokemon can churn out 100 damage consistently (not named Gallade blowing them to the bench with 50 HP left btw), and even then they'll be left weakened by 60-120 damage from Wailord. And of course, all of this is not taking into account that Wailord potentially recovers 10 HP each turn if it attacks with damage counters on it. Imagine combining this with Leftovers, lol...
Which of course, brings us to Wailord's best abilities, as a staller. He is awfully big for a Stage 1, and like I mentioned before, could potentially recover 20 HP each turn just with his Poke-Body + Leftovers. This, along with Potion, Buffer Piece, and such easily allows Wailord at the least to be out there 3 turns, possibly more; this is more than enough time to bring up another Wailord. And like I saw in a deck posted somewhere here, a simple tech of Xatu SW will remove Sleep when it comes to your turn if you're still afflicted by it and force it onto the opponent, while you're free to attack for 60, go to Sleep (if you're damaged still), and recover more HP.
About the only factor against Wailord are his high attack cost (3 Waters and 1 Colorless is not cheap, and at 60 damage is underpowered) and his high Retreat Cost (you aren't retreating this guy usually though, but if you have to have him out early, ouch...Warp Point and Switch help a bit).
So overall, I think Wailord is pretty good, but I doubt it'll be gamebreaking. Might win a random few Spring BRs, but I doubt it'll be winning Nationals and such unless the metagame shifts in such a way as to allowing him to dominate.
Which of course, brings us to Wailord's best abilities, as a staller. He is awfully big for a Stage 1, and like I mentioned before, could potentially recover 20 HP each turn just with his Poke-Body + Leftovers. This, along with Potion, Buffer Piece, and such easily allows Wailord at the least to be out there 3 turns, possibly more; this is more than enough time to bring up another Wailord. And like I saw in a deck posted somewhere here, a simple tech of Xatu SW will remove Sleep when it comes to your turn if you're still afflicted by it and force it onto the opponent, while you're free to attack for 60, go to Sleep (if you're damaged still), and recover more HP.
About the only factor against Wailord are his high attack cost (3 Waters and 1 Colorless is not cheap, and at 60 damage is underpowered) and his high Retreat Cost (you aren't retreating this guy usually though, but if you have to have him out early, ouch...Warp Point and Switch help a bit).
So overall, I think Wailord is pretty good, but I doubt it'll be gamebreaking. Might win a random few Spring BRs, but I doubt it'll be winning Nationals and such unless the metagame shifts in such a way as to allowing him to dominate.
Retreat isn't a problem. Attach a P Energy to it, if it has WP (which also eliminates Gallade's Sonic Blade) attached to it, it has Free Retreat. Alternativly, you could have a #-# Weavile line, and instead of Dawn's Stadium (which heals you further), you can have Moonlight Stadium. The first is if you want there to be more healing, and the second if you want to have less Energy on Wailord.
Now, poeple say that Wailord has a bad attack. It's attack acully is better then both Floatzels attacks combined. 60 damage on a Stage 1 Water Pokemon, with alot of healing, and with 200 HP, is acually GOOD. Even with the Sleep penelty, ever heard of Xatu? Now, what about the huge attack cost of WWWC? Ever heard of Togekiss? Blastoise? Both can be used to Accelerate Wailord, though Togekiss is more random, but Blasty ends your turn. But Blastoise has another advantage: he has a Delta Speicies counterpart that protects Weakness as a Body.This really helps against 'Vire or some rogue Lightning deck.
Now, poeple say that Wailord has a bad attack. It's attack acully is better then both Floatzels attacks combined. 60 damage on a Stage 1 Water Pokemon, with alot of healing, and with 200 HP, is acually GOOD. Even with the Sleep penelty, ever heard of Xatu? Now, what about the huge attack cost of WWWC? Ever heard of Togekiss? Blastoise? Both can be used to Accelerate Wailord, though Togekiss is more random, but Blasty ends your turn. But Blastoise has another advantage: he has a Delta Speicies counterpart that protects Weakness as a Body.This really helps against 'Vire or some rogue Lightning deck.
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
The maim problem Arceis os that adding a stage 2 line to the deck slows it down and reduces overall consistancy. A single Ray d would be better for weakness protection IMHO. I don't expect either Blastoise or Kiss to be good here ... though Leafeon probably would have worked. Too bad we don't have it yet.
I also wonder if those Firestarter Magmortar decks will start adding Manectric as an anti-Wailord tech if the Wail starts getting played.
I also wonder if those Firestarter Magmortar decks will start adding Manectric as an anti-Wailord tech if the Wail starts getting played.
ryanvergel
New Member
I wanted to run a leafeon/wailord deck =(
I love wailord. No matter how you look at it:
1. no lightning in the format =D
2. you CANNOT OHKO it. unless you use gallade, flip 6 prizes, dont have a dre attached, and have 2 plus power attached.
3. low damage/energy output, but it's the body/attack synergy that catches the eye.
If you guys want to know the best anti-wailord tech it's pachirisu: it's lightning and can remove the amulet coin/leftovers on it and hit for decent damage.
I love wailord. No matter how you look at it:
1. no lightning in the format =D
2. you CANNOT OHKO it. unless you use gallade, flip 6 prizes, dont have a dre attached, and have 2 plus power attached.
3. low damage/energy output, but it's the body/attack synergy that catches the eye.
If you guys want to know the best anti-wailord tech it's pachirisu: it's lightning and can remove the amulet coin/leftovers on it and hit for decent damage.
Magic_Umbreon
Researching Tower Scientist, Retired
Tyranitar ex shockwave marker everything then KO one at a time?
same problem as galade though, holon wp prevents the discard, damage is still nice for 1 energy
TODDakaESTEBAN
New Member
did noone notice that electrode ohkos it on the front page of this thread, and that electrode, if necessary can EASILY be teched into gallade, and MAYBE morter, instead of haveing to play vire to counter a counter then get pwned by the decks wailord counters, the 2 decks you know you will see
rhodesia123
New Member
the opponent wouldnt be simple enough to attach a tool to their active wailord if they see a pachirisu. even if they already had the tool attached before pachirisu was played, thats a one time 80 damage blow and the wailord player would make sure not to play any more tools.
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