Anti Wailord Tech
- Thread starter TODDakaESTEBAN
- Start date
I can understand the body, but the stadium relies on the opponent not countering/windstorming it. So most of the time, Wailord will only be healed for 20-30 on average. You can't say for certain that you will be able to use a heal trainer every turn to heal wailord either. Even if you used Leftovers, it is also susceptible to windstorm, and only heals for 10 at the end of your turn.
If Wailord does become popular in any way, Electivire will just spring up and obliterate it. Electivire lv.X getting immunity every time you lay a stadium or tool, and being able to OHKO wailord (even with a buffer piece attached).
Wailord just has too many things going against it. It only has one attack, so it has little to no options. It's attack cost four energy, which means it will be impossible to swarm with them if the opponent is able to OHKO or even Two-hit-KO them. Wailord's only attack does 60 damage, not even enough to KO many basic pokemon now meaning that Wailord has to tank to perform well at all. Because Wailord has to tank, it relies heavily on cards like the stadiums and tools and holon wp to help it not get OHKO'd by all the monsters out there.
In the end, it won't help. You either go offensive or lose in the current format.
If Wailord does become popular in any way, Electivire will just spring up and obliterate it. Electivire lv.X getting immunity every time you lay a stadium or tool, and being able to OHKO wailord (even with a buffer piece attached).
Wailord just has too many things going against it. It only has one attack, so it has little to no options. It's attack cost four energy, which means it will be impossible to swarm with them if the opponent is able to OHKO or even Two-hit-KO them. Wailord's only attack does 60 damage, not even enough to KO many basic pokemon now meaning that Wailord has to tank to perform well at all. Because Wailord has to tank, it relies heavily on cards like the stadiums and tools and holon wp to help it not get OHKO'd by all the monsters out there.
In the end, it won't help. You either go offensive or lose in the current format.
... You know Gallade is still in the format, right? People using Vire... lol....
Rayquaza d with Holon WP also gets around this little problem.
MrMeches
New Member
One thing I think people are missing is if you have the WP on Wailord, Pachi can't discard the Loeftovers and Neither can Vire X so those are safe!
If Ray d has a WP on it, then ne Weaknees and there is that issue. Wailord can become a Strong contender but it needs the right build to do it and the right level of skill. I don't think this deck will be for an average style player as there are a lot of steps in many scenario's that must come about!!
If Ray d has a WP on it, then ne Weaknees and there is that issue. Wailord can become a Strong contender but it needs the right build to do it and the right level of skill. I don't think this deck will be for an average style player as there are a lot of steps in many scenario's that must come about!!
garchompx12
New Member
another problem is that since weakness hurts wail alot, that ray d from HP becomes usable with him....
play like 4 WP for more defense, attach just one to ray, and presto, wailord loses his weakness, which will really
suck for the opponent....
play like 4 WP for more defense, attach just one to ray, and presto, wailord loses his weakness, which will really
suck for the opponent....
Let Fire Fall
New Member
It doesn't matter if you're a tank. Wailord takes 4 energy just to start attacking and it only does 60 damage. Since when was playing something that gets destroyed by Gallade a good idea? Gallade is why Blissey died down, and Wailord is worse than Blissey.
Wailord is not good.
Wailord is not good.
Wailord is better than blissy VS gallade though. Seriously, who is going to play lightning with gallade running around?
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Electrode? It's an easy tech in many decks as the OP noted.
Manectric? It loves firestarter.
Gatr d? As mentioned it's a good Hurricane tech.
Pachirisu? After GE it should find it's way into some decks.
While I agree that there aren't a ton of pure electric decks running around right now there are PLENTY of techs. Also I tend to see at least 1 or 2 red face paint Electric decks even at the smaller events. I imagine that they will be at states as well ... sure the odds are against Wailord being paired with one but you never know.
Manectric? It loves firestarter.
Gatr d? As mentioned it's a good Hurricane tech.
Pachirisu? After GE it should find it's way into some decks.
While I agree that there aren't a ton of pure electric decks running around right now there are PLENTY of techs. Also I tend to see at least 1 or 2 red face paint Electric decks even at the smaller events. I imagine that they will be at states as well ... sure the odds are against Wailord being paired with one but you never know.
If one more person says electric decks will be the death of Wailord I swear to God I am going to find that person and throw something at them. Rayquaza d is kinda OBVIOUS in a water deck with holon wp already in it when the water pokemon has such a massive weakness to lightning. Silly people....
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Oh I agree that it's obvious SPARTA but you have to get it out and energy attached first. It's not exactly a wonderful start either.
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Without Kiss or Blastoise you are now talking up to FIVE turns of setup and energy attachment before you get to attack. That's a long time to give your opponent even if you have healing and whatnot built in.
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Yep. Hece the "up to" comment. Also worth noting that missing an energy drop happens and searching out holon wp energy isn't easy. Attacking with Ray d to search it out is risky and means that you have to reatreat or switch him.
Even with DRE you might need 5 turns or more to get both weakness negation and your attacker powered up.
In general I see this as a bad idea. Gallade can potentially be doing 150 to you T2. Electrode is OHKOing Wailord T2. And heck help you if you are facing a G&G with Electrode.
Even giving decks that you aren't weak to that much time to set up seems iffy to me. BlissCatty is going to have crazy draw and an absurdly powered Blissey in 5 turns and can probably OHKO you on a random upstream if needed for instance. Hurricane will be in a similar position. Mags will probably be in trouble no matter what against Wailord. But in general it just seems like a bad idea to give your opponent so many turns to get going no matter how tough you are.
And that's the whole argument for Wailord. It will take the opponent time to KO it, so they have plenty of time to build it. They can only look at the situation from that perspective because Wailord only brings one good thing to the table, it's HP. If it had any reasonable attacks, they could reason that Wailord could KO the opponent before it KOs Wailord, but because Wailord's only attack is awful, doing 60 damage for WWWC, and being that 60 damage doesn't KO many basics now, that reasoning would be flawed. People even suggest running DRE with Wailord to speed it up, which also shows how stupid the attack is if they are willing to reduce it's damage further down to 50 damage just to speed the slow whale up.
Here's the truth. Wailord only has HP going for it. It might heal a little damage here and there, but in the end, it's no tougher than 2 normal attackers. If it takes you 2 turns of attacking to KO 1 attacker, it should take you 4 turns of attacking (maybe even 3) to KO Wailord, regardless of what Wailord is doing/healing. If you can deal 80 damage a turn, you can three-hit-KO Wailord consistently and Wailord can't do squat about it other than spamming potions. If you have 130HP, it takes Wailord 3 attacks to KO your pokemon, because no wailord is going to sacrifice the space for a strength charm or plus power when they rely so heavily on leftovers and buffer pieces (and that stupid stadum).
Sure, Wailord might have a decent matchup against G&G and Magmortar, but will it ever get to the finals to actually face off against those decks? I don't think so. I don't think Wailord will win a single tournament until Battle Roads. I may be wrong, and if I am, that is fine, but Wailord just doesn't have enough going for it to really be championship material imho.
Here's the truth. Wailord only has HP going for it. It might heal a little damage here and there, but in the end, it's no tougher than 2 normal attackers. If it takes you 2 turns of attacking to KO 1 attacker, it should take you 4 turns of attacking (maybe even 3) to KO Wailord, regardless of what Wailord is doing/healing. If you can deal 80 damage a turn, you can three-hit-KO Wailord consistently and Wailord can't do squat about it other than spamming potions. If you have 130HP, it takes Wailord 3 attacks to KO your pokemon, because no wailord is going to sacrifice the space for a strength charm or plus power when they rely so heavily on leftovers and buffer pieces (and that stupid stadum).
Sure, Wailord might have a decent matchup against G&G and Magmortar, but will it ever get to the finals to actually face off against those decks? I don't think so. I don't think Wailord will win a single tournament until Battle Roads. I may be wrong, and if I am, that is fine, but Wailord just doesn't have enough going for it to really be championship material imho.
And if you play wailord with blastoise SW you must tech in a blastoise D for no weakness. If they will snipe that or something with a poke, then you can attack more with your wailords. People see wailord as a pokemon which is a fun pokemon to play with after all those blissey's and gallade.