Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Why are people scared of Dusknoir LV. X?

Just remember kids, SPARTA has the best decklists you can't beat him, he is all knowing. I honestly don't see much that beats noir, tort has an ok matchup, I intend to test gg/weavile tomorrow. Then again I have poor lists and skills nevermind.:/

I'd have to say mortor has good matchup vs spread decks.;)

stfu you have no idea what your sayin

Gengar and all the rest of the top decks can beat dusknoir if they tech a very certain "unwon G" into their deck.
 
I'm sorry SPARTA I forgot to read in the rules book that results should only be taken into account if they come from the Elite players in the game. Results from good (not Elite) players don't count since we don't have the best list in the format or best skills to play those list. But our lists do scare the Elite players since they will be used to playing against the Elite list that when they face a rogue list they won't know exactly what against it.

So yeah SPARTA don't pay any attention to my results. Since Wood pretty much makes every top cut around here, and is 3-0 vs. Ness. Don't pay attention to our lists, T3 Tortile 80% of games. Then my Dusknoir list being 50-50 against something you said would give it a hard time, something that hits for 100 a turn starting T3.

I have pulled some good plays vs. him. Like one game we were tied 2-2 he was expecting me to KO one of his Pokemon when I clearly could. Instead I just passed, let him Dusknoir LV.X damage, then got 2 KOs next turn with my Dusknoir.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

stfu you have no idea what your sayin

Gengar and all the rest of the top decks can beat dusknoir if they tech a very certain "unwon G" into their deck.

and u didn't read that he plays 2 Unown Gs, 2 Dawn Stadium and had D/P Torterra to remove more damage but took it out since it didn't help as much as Dawn Stadium/Unown G.
 
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I honestly don't see much that beats noir.

DUsknoir's bad match-ups:

1) Magmortar/Heatran
This deck is typically slow at setting up, but due to the low damage output Noir decks have, this typically is not an issue. Once set up, spread is nullified by Unown G's and Mortar's healing poke-body. Furthermore, Dusknoir's Night Spin does not disrupt the deck at all, due to an all-time 4 energy total on a given Magmortar. Not only this, but Mortar LvX nullifies Dusknoir LvX with auto 3 counters in between turns. with the vast damage option Mortar has, the deck can calculate your death to be on it's up-coming turn, and nearly KO anything else instantly.
30-70

2) Kingdra
Not a terrible match-up, but a difficult one to say the least. Kingdra smashes through the field at an average of turn 3 (more like 2 and 1/2, rounded up) with the low damage output Dusknoir has that early in the game, The first Kingdra will probably sweep a few easy prizes. By planning ahead, Kingdra can avoid the stall of Night Spin by careful Call energy placements. No real sacrifice there. furthermore, with Unown G, Claydol can stick around for a while, and even when it dies, Baltoy + Rare Candy + Claydol is not uncommon, but without that, Kingdra can manage one turn without a Claydol anyhow.
45-55

3) Fairies
This one may be a bit more surprising, but there is a good explanation. In general, the Fairies consistently set up on turn 3. The deck limits Dusknoir's damage options to zero with Palkia placing Claydol active until ready to OHKO. At that time, Palkia forces Dusknoir's up, mostly before they can Lv up. Dusknoir's spread only works about every other game (this HAS been thoroughly tested), and even then, Force up Claydol for stall and heal with Mesprit. The key to not being overran by spread is two things; Unown G and using the Mesprit and Azelf that have bodies, not powers. With three Unown G's in play (not uncommon) and Mesprit's healing, the only concept of Dusknoir that beats the fairies, is useless.
45-55

4) Luxray
This is the only match-up I that I have not as much elaborate testing as I would like. Still, there are many good arguments in Luxray's favor. Of the most obvious one: COMPLETE Dusknoir LvX negation. With the ability to OHKO anything while the LvX is in play, Warp Points = free prizes. Even after KOing the LvX, Electivire LvX Wipes it from the board and does a free 50 damage, enough for a follow-up KO. Also, using Shadow Command puts the regular Noir in OHKO range. So now the two things that make Dusknoir appear to be 'better' than most other cards, the LvX and additional draw power, all good-for-nothing.
40-60

Dusknoir is an amazing deck, but it just has too many bad match-ups.
 
I will say this we have not test against many of the decks Ignatious mentioned simply because I believe it's hardest match would be a really high HP pokemon swinging for 100 a turn. Not only that but a list that is completely anti-Dusknoir.

I could be wrong and do horrible at Jimmy B.'s cash money tournament coming up this weekend. But I highly doubt that since the side-kick I found for Dusknoir is one that takes care of 3/4 of the decks Ignatious mentioned. The only one I see giving Dusknoir a hard time is AMU w/ Palkia and really teched against Dusknoir. Sorry for not being able to mention the side-kick(s) but it would ruin my horrible surprise rogue list, right SPARTA?
 
Now if there was a dusknoir with a snipe attack it would be great, otherwise its just a dummy hopping to be knocked out. Doing 20 damage to all your opponents pokemons isn´t so hard. I've seen a couple of these decks played, and they did okay. But thats it. Im not saying it isnt a great card, and im not saying that it isn't to be feared. I'm just saying that someone will have to come up with something better than the way its used at the momet. Yes you may get lucky and the opponent wont be able to remove it all. You might also get very unlucky and not be able to build up your Dusknoir fast enough. You also need something else to spread the damage cause dusknoir (the regulars) isnt very good at it.
 
stfu you have no idea what your sayin

Gengar and all the rest of the top decks can beat dusknoir if they tech a very certain "unwon G" into their deck.
Gino's recruitments at its best. And dusknior can tech in those "unwon" Gs as well and beat gengar, who is utterly terrible.
 
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DUsknoir's bad match-ups:

1) Magmortar/Heatran

2) Kingdra

3) Fairies

4) Luxray

Dusknoir is an amazing deck, but it just has too many bad match-ups.

I gnerally agree with this list of hard matchups. The Mags one in particular caught me by suprise the first time I tested it.

As with all things though you can tech against these if you know one is going to be big in your meta. Bronzong line in particular makes the AMU matchup easier for instance. Starmie could give you a lot of suprise damage against Mags for low cost. Etc.
 
Gino's recruitments at its best. And dusknior can tech in those "unwon" Gs as well and beat gengar, who is utterly terrible.

lol, yeah i probly shoulda said this in my post:

"Unown G can be teched to beat every thing that places damage or any attack that has a effect."


btw yeah gengar is terrible.
 
Ok, so I placed 2nd at Jimmy B.'s tournament. Ness, Chuck, Pooka, Matt Alvis, MI players all didn't go and there was an optional Mulligan rule. But there was still some good competition and I didn't have to use the mulligan rule to many times. So, I still can't reveal my side-kicks. So once I play it at my next Cities then I'll reveal the combo. Unless you guys really want know and try to get the info. from people that were there.

I can now build PUMA and a Gengar deck so I'll playtesting vs. those. Although I did get to play vs. both, twice, at the tourney. First I get the PUMA results out of the way. It pwned me bad both games BUT neither game did I get an even decent start missing energy drops in one and then not drawing into anything, scooping after 6 turns and being down 3 prizes. This happened both games and both games they had the Supreme Blast T3 and Palkia T4/T5. Pretty much near God starts to ok, not even starts. Out of the 10 games I played it decides to not have it's usual starts...

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the 2 games I play vs. PUMA.

Gengar was a whole different story. Both just ran Dusknoir(D/P) as a 1-0-1 tech, and comboed it with Starmie (LA) which IMO is a good play. So the Gengar was still fast, and consistent. I managed to beat all 3 games to only 2 prizes taken by my opponent. I faced it Round 1, and Top 8.

I have also play-tested by Magmortar and realized it's a horrible match-up. But I'm not playing Dusknoir (D/P) so I may have to put it in depending on how I do vs. AMU, and if it truely helps Vs. Magmortar. I PWNed a none teched Kingdra so more results to come soon.
 
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Actually, I would totally give a rat's tail for his secret cards. PM me, Chris, and we'll set up the exchange. You're sending first, I have like one hundred refs.
 
no one gives a rats tail about ur secret cardz chris cobi

actually I think more then person would care if it's making an unfavourable 40-60 match-up and flipping it around to a 60-40 in my favor. Especially when my deck includes Dusknoir which a lot of people would like to play but don't because they think it has one too many bad match-ups. Then in this particular match-up it's against the deck that won the most BRs.

So please don't be rude and try to elaborate more on your post.
 
Chris: Is it "snow"ing up in your part of the USA :wink:

Keith

Yes, Keith we actually just got about 3 or 4 inches of AlotofSnow:thumb:, it was a hard time driving back from the tournament:frown:. But even then you could still see the "Moon".:thumb:
 
So, dusknoir with abomasnow and cresselia?
Gotcha.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

But in all seriousness, Abomasnow or Snowman as I like to call him cause Abonasnow really helps in the Kingdra match-up as your it takes away the swarming 60/20 and reduces it to just 40. One option that Kingdra still has is that it can build up an Upstream and make it so that the 3HKO is reduced to 2HKOs maybe even OHKOs but every unlikely.

I know people will argue that it doesn't hit any of the bench Kingdra line but it still does hit the Claydol. Then it's only doing 40 per turn with 1 Cresselia Lv.X in play which I can almost always T3 sometimes T4 if I'm not having the greatest start. So the 40 that it does is actually reduced to 30 with Moonlight Dance. In the mean time your setting another Snowman or a Dusknoir, AND hitting their Kingdra for 20 and Claydol for 20. If they have any other techs that aren't Water or Grass those obvious get hit as well.

Like I said I completely destroyed an un-teched Kingdra, but now I'm going to change the list so that it's teched against Kingdra. I expect the match to be closer but still for CAD to pull it out in the end as the same thing happened with in the Torttile match-up. First Torttile wasn't teched for Dusknoir and only managed to take 2 prizes. Then it was teched for Dusknoir but could only win about 30% of games, and almost all games going down to 2-2 or 1-1 prizes. You must remember that anything Kingdra techs in for Dusknoir it losses consistency, so that's what Snowman takes advantage. I compare the two decks vs. CAD because the Snowman doesn't hit any other bench for 20 besides the Claydol, and the active, not including techs.

I'll get you started on a list just so your match-ups are a little more accurate.

Pokemon: 25
3 Duskull (SW, Reaper Cloth best one because of the speed and consistency it gives the deck)
1 Duskull SF/SH(for the energy less attack which I know will really help every now and then)
2 Dusclops D/P (for it's capabilities of spread, even if it flips tails it can self damage and then do more damage with Dusknoir's Damage Even)
1 Dusclops S/F (Dark-eye, it's good to have a one energy attack and something that can disrupt, especially if you start with Duskull and hit heads on it's astonish)
2 Dusknoir S/F (Damage Even, best Dusknoir to spread with)
1 Dusknoir D/P (Might take it out to add a Promo or 3rd Damage Even if Magmortar and AMU still give you a hard time)
1 Dusknoir Lv. X
2 Snover MT (60 HP=No Sableye Donkage, Curiosity is nice for no energy)
2 Abomasnow SF (one of the best side-kicks Dusknoir can have, if not the best because of it's ability to prevent damage to all your Pokemon, not just active, and obviously the spread, Water type could help against Magmorat or any other fire deck like Infernape)
2 Cresselia (Future Sight, again this helps the consistency of the deck more ways then you could imagine)
2 Cresselia Lv.X (we all know why the card is here, and with all the spread you could even take 2 prizes with it's attack if you can power it up on the bench)
2-2 Claydol
1 Unown G
1 Unown Q (for free retreat on your Cresslia, it helps get the first one out much quicker and not having to miss an energy drop or for it to keep it's energy and scare your opponent by dropping another energy onto it)

Supporters: 10
3 Bebe's Search
3 Roseanne's Research
2 Rowan
2 Wager

Trainers: 12
1 Luxury Ball
1 Night Maintenance
2 Warp Point
4 Dusk Ball
2 Rare Candy (only 2 since you play Reaper Cloth Duskull and 3 Dusclops, you could switch to 3 and drop a Dusclops, but still don't drop Reaper Cloth Dusknull)
2 Premier Ball

Energy: 13
4 Call Energy
8 Psychic
1 Water (it actually helped me 4 out of the 10 games I played at Jimmy's Cash Money Tournament, so I would still run it)
 
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Chris: I was wondering if you used the 50 HP or 60 HP Snover, to avoid the Sableye donk. The 'Snow is gaining ground as a nice tech. As you say, it doesnt even matter if it is Kingdra or not, but it is very nice ag'st Kingdra! Could you use a 1-1 Cressy line to run more trainers/supporters?

Keith
 
ok guys. i believe that this Dusknoir Lv.x is an OK card but gengar will tear it to shreads if your opponent does not attacvh his/her unown g's correctly. gengar can constantly use Shadow Room on Dusky and it will be knock-out(with NO effect of the poke-power). i faced i believe 2 or 3 Dusknoir Lv.xs this past weekend and my opponent never had the chance to use ectoplasm.

IMO- Gengar>Dusknoir Lv.X
 
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