What do you expect the Pokémon TCG to give you?

[P_A]

And I suppose you think that's sufficient, DP. Ok, fair enough. However I know a vendor that probably spends more than you but probably gives more back than I do.

 

[Yoshi-]

But, but...if they didn't give away those boxes, they could have instead, you know, SELL THOSE BLOODY BOXES and thus made a profit out of them.

Are you part of the music industriy, I've seen this argument before

Just because people won the boxes doesnt mean they would have bought them otherwise...

Otherwise they could just pump out more boxes since, accprding to you, they'd sell everything they produce, no matter how much they produce. But in the end the boxes they give away as prices probably cost them next to nothing and you shouldnt assume that people would have bought them otherwise...

(I could mention that most people who win tournaments shoudl be smart enough to not buy our boosters but dont want to start another flame war :biggrin: )

Just because people take something when its free doesnt mean they would take it otherwise, I doubt I would eb willing to pay more then 1$ / pack for SV packs, they are THAT bad...

 

[Team Evolution]

People who have been in the game for a long time remember prize support being better in the early days. Seeing less now they simply want it to be more like it used to be.

Some folks who play other games see amazing prize support there and want Pokemon to be more like that.

I don’t get the sense that anyone is being really “greedy” ... they just want a game they like to be more like the competition or more like they remember it being.

Prize support in general is a way to attract folks to play. Some of the folks wanting “more more more” want it so that the game will stay popular and keep attracting new players. It’s not always about personal gain.

Thank you. Someone else who understands better prize support could mean new players or bringing back older players. Lets also face it, just because the tournaments are free doesn't mean that players don't spend a lot of money over the year on packs and starters.

Lets face it though they will probably never make a promo uxie and promo claydol based on the fact that those cards are a big reason people buy packs of those set and lets face it if someone could just go to a tournament and get one they would be worth way less and therefor the pack sales of those sets would probably drop a little.

 

[ShadowCard]

You can't seriously say that you like the stupid promos they give us. We have NEVER gotten a decent card out of those. Ya... my nationals Dragonite is just soooooooo playable. :/

You don't even attend league--how do you know what promos league gets?

That Gallade, Rare Candy, Roseanne Research, just to name those off the top of my head, were pretty playable.

If Rare Candy and RR is "mediocre junk", I'll take all the mediocre junk PUI wants to give me

There's just no pleasing some people.

I'm so sorry for actually having a life out side of pokemon. I've been busy with college, and haven't had time to respond. I'll get around to it once I actually have some time.

Darthpika, its the first week of college, unless yours hasn't started yet like mine. Others here go to college too--and have part time jobs at the same time.

But to look into your claim of being busy, on August 27, you posted in this thread at:
2:41pm
3:02pm
3:41pm
4:36pm
4:41pm
5:02pm
6:35pm

How, if only I could access that feature that lets me see how many posts each user has in this thread...

 

[yoyofsho16]

They gave more when the game had a 75% less players.
That's why it's messed up. They aren't adjusting for the times.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Giving away playable cards for winning tournaments is a bad idea.

If they made a new card, then not all players would have access to it and it would become ridiculously expensive, like Gold Sarcophagus and Crush Card in YGO.

Making a winner version of some staple card seems a bit naff and doesn't really make it special. Plus it would likely mess with future rotations.

They did this in Japan, though, for Pokemon.

Those Medal cards are SUPER PLAYABLE.

 

[Crosplat]

You know, I'm pretty satisfied with having free events with any prizes at all. Maybe it's because I am used to dropping a lot more money on other activities like $60 to go paintballing, $250 to go tuna fishing, or $20 for food and a movie, but a free event with prizes and a relatively low cost investment to do well seems like a good deal to me. If you do really well Pokemon's an awesome deal with free plane rides, hotel stays, and pretty decent scholarships.

It's a pretty minor concern for me, but I do agree that a promo Uxie or Claydol would be a much better prize than the current VM or other promos. Maybe make them holographic or something to enhance the "wow" factor. POP could even bring back the "Winner" stamp.

 

[The Anaconda]

How, if only I could access that feature that lets me see how many posts each user has in this thread...

just click on the total post count at the end of the row on the forum view, and you can see it right there

I'm all about enabling people :thumb:

 

[Alazor]

I like this thread and its various perspectives. But really for me as a player who plays seldom enough, it's fun to play once in a while and get something. And I guess that's league, but still-- who doesn't want to get competitive?
It doesn't matter too much to me right now. But it's fun to "win" something once in a while.
I guess free stuff is just there so I won't feel bad when I lose.

Awesome thread! Even the disagreements.

But really to have a great time, you just have to have a great time. And it's especially hard when people who played the TCG aren't there anymore.

 

[Articjedi]

Fun, fun, good times with friends, and when I finish my doctorate in the next four years, and can actually play competitively again, a successful worlds run.

 

[Absoltrainer]

Guys think of it this way.

Let’s say you give a kid 20 dollars for ever A on his report card, 10 for every B and 5 for ever C.
You do this for his 3 years of Middle School.
He gets to high school and you decide you have been spending too much and now tell him he gets 10 dollars per As, 5 for Bs and none for Cs.

Around Junior year, you change it again to 5 dollars for an A and nothing for anything less.


will the kind complain? Probably. You can tell him to be grateful he gest any money at all, but when you offer amazing prizes, then take them away little by little, it's can get frustrating.


I remember a time Pre-Releases were 20 Dollars and the winner got a box of the new set and a Winner's Pin. Everyone else got a total of 10 packs for playing.
Then we lost the box as a prize and got only winner pins instead.
Then we lost the winner pins, removed top-cut rounds, and got nothing for winning and the price raised by 5 dollars.
Then we lost 2 of the 4 additional packs we used to get and it was replaced by a crappy deck box and at one time a notebook
Now granted the sleeves were a HUGE improvement and made the 25 dollars a lot more worth it.

Look at tournaments.
When I first played in regional’s, top 4 got scholarships, I got top 8, and got half a box.
The year after that I got top 8 again, top 4 still got scholarships, and I got half a box
Then they take away half the scholarships and top 8 does not get half a box anymore.

We were all accustomed to Origins being possibly the greatest highlight of a Pokémon Season. Pokémon Nats PLUS all the other free stuff? Then they throw St. Louis on us, an absolute horrible place with a bad vendor to boot?

The point is, is this, if Pokémon is going to dangle a bunch of awesome prizes in front of us for most of our career, then decides to not only to reduce them, but reduce the reduced prizes, people get upset.

Seriously, this "be happy you get free stuff" crap is annoying the heck out of me.

You guys get all up in the faces of people who have been playing for 3 times as long as you have and get mad at them because they are nostalgic for the good old days. I see people who want Gym Challenges back get shot down all the time. Why? Because they are supposed to be happy that Pokémon even holds worlds and gives invites, not supposed to be mad that they stopped doing something we liked.

REALLY????

If Pokémon DIDN’T give prizes, almost no one would go. If Pokémon did not hold Nats or Worlds, people would not bother to play the game. A healthy OP is needed to make money. Pokémon HAS to host tournaments and HAS to give incentive, otherwise they will lost players and thus lost money.

Pokémon has made an increasing amount of decisions that players have been reacting negatively to. Are we gunna quit over it? No, we keep playing. That being said, PUI/TPCI has in the past listened to the players. We make a point to express our annoyance in hopes that it might be changed back. That is why the top guys visit the site. As small of a population as the players are, they are still customers.

So seriously if you are going to be post “be happy you get anything at all” Remember this. We have to get something or a good 50% 0f the player base would quit. Remember that as you go back each year back to when Nintendo took over the game, you will see the prizes increase. Compare the prizes of tournaments from the RS-on day, to today, and look at the difference. Remember that players you yell at have been playing a LOT longer then you.

 

[legotack]

^Great post. I totally agree. I remember in my first tournament (it was a Gym Challenge) in 2005-2006 (I think) I came in second to last place. I lost all of my rounds except for the fourth (and final) round where I got a bye. Guess how many packs I got. Four. Now that is the amount that you get for winning a BR. Then they had a Gym Challenge the next weekend. At least where I live, they never have BR's that frequently. If OP's budget has not changed, why cut back on prizes?

 

[SD PokeMom]

@absoltrainer: and i remember a time when WotC had control of the game when there were NO prereleases, and 15+ were not allowed to participate in organized play other than as professors. your point?

when the game reverted to NOA/PUI they knew they had to jumpstart the OP WotC had all but killed off. anyone recall the prize structure at the first (...and only) R/S challenge?

things change. the budget 'pie' is still there but has to be shared among more players in more countries. OP is not in control of how much they are allotted and do the best they can with what they have. the 'good old days' will NEVER return, and wanting them to do so is futile.

jmho.
'mom

 

[Shen]

Before I say anything, I'm very clueless to how the system works.

HOWEVER... Even in other countries, players still have to pay for their cards. Yeah, they get some for winnings... but they gotta start somewhere. And I don't honestly think all of the cards in circulation in other countries are purely from winnings. As long as POP operates the same both in foreign lands and in the USA, I don't see how the system isn't working.

So where's the money going? Honest question, really.

 

[prodigal_fanboy]

@absoltrainer: and i remember a time when WotC had control of the game when there were NO prereleases, and 15+ were not allowed to participate in organized play other than as professors. your point?

when the game reverted to NOA/PUI they knew they had to jumpstart the OP WotC had all but killed off. anyone recall the prize structure at the first (...and only) R/S challenge?

things change. the budget 'pie' is still there but has to be shared among more players in more countries. OP is not in control of how much they are allotted and do the best they can with what they have. the 'good old days' will NEVER return, and wanting them to do so is futile.

jmho.
'mom

Time and time again, this has been stated. Out of curiosity, why ISN'T OP's budget increased with sales?

We know that players who play competitively invest lots of time and money into this game. We know PUI has lots of excess product left over, as most businesses should -- better to have more than have a secondary market price shock when supply suddenly gets cut short. I'm not saying they should hand out PK packs as prizes at 2009-2010 season events, but rather just suggesting that perhaps the lack of growth in funding is an issue that OP should be able to at least bring to the table.

As for marketing aimed at kids, this argument will be somewhat anecdotal and thus liable to refutation through other anecdotes, but I'd like to raise the point in case serious data can be produced to refute or assert my claim. Marketing to little kids is a good strategy for a more consistant revenue stream. From what I've seen, they tend to buy arbitrary packs here and there, throughout the season, just to get some cards. However, of the little kids that attend league, they get dwarfed in annual volume of purchase by the more competitive players in our area, who as such deserve some consideration from marketing. I know there's tons of kids that never play the TCG once that buy the packs to collect or for the pictures, but are they so great in number that they grossly outweigh all the competitive players buying boxes, taking whole families to PRs, fueling the secondary market, etc., that the optimal solution is to aggressively pursue these kids?

 

[Prof Clay]

Before I say anything, I'm very clueless to how the system works.

HOWEVER... Even in other countries, players still have to pay for their cards. Yeah, they get some for winnings... but they gotta start somewhere. And I don't honestly think all of the cards in circulation in other countries are purely from winnings. As long as POP operates the same both in foreign lands and in the USA, I don't see how the system isn't working.

So where's the money going? Honest question, really.

The money goes to profit for the company bosses of course. The whole point of any business is too make a profit....the more the better. If you can continue to make great profits without increasing spending, why would you spend more money on OP?

 

[PuRpLe]

((I read to page 2 so far))

Ok first of all I play for fun and I HATE whiny masters
(search past posts of mine, I've argued with them and also have posted how the game is for children and the children should get the most not us) but I don't get why everyone is jumping on the people who complain about the decrease of prizes. I play for FUN and its true, prizes have gone way down. Really, it sucks. Remember when prereleases cost 15$? Wow! Those were the days! Remember the days people would play for a BOX @ citys? WOW those were the days! I'm sure attendance would go up alot if BR prize was ONE box for ONE person. BR's are about the kids/new players but I'm sure even kids would be happier playing for a box instead of, like, 2 packs lol.

The scholarships prizes are impressive, I give credit where its due but they just seem like they're getting cheap with packs that probably don't cost them much.

LOL say 20 people in ea. state went to their BR's and paid their 20$ ((haha yeahright, those also were the good ol days!)) than that = $20,000! Just in BR's!

- strictly fun/casual player who thinks it's a kids game but agrees these guys should are getting cheap with prizes

 

[ShadowCard]

Time and time again, this has been stated. Out of curiosity, why ISN'T OP's budget increased with sales?

It has been speculated that maybe it is difficult to prove that sales have increased due to OP, and instead it may be interpretted that rising sales and a bigger OP are a correlation without one being the cause of another.

Another idea is something you brought up:

I know there's tons of kids that never play the TCG once that buy the packs to collect or for the pictures, but are they so great in number that they grossly outweigh all the competitive players buying boxes, taking whole families to PRs, fueling the secondary market, etc., that the optimal solution is to aggressively pursue these kids?

This is the question. The example of a kid who buys packs before discovering league is a good one. He bought cards without being involved in OP. He continues to buy cards after becoming involved with OP. What needs to be figured out is if the kid is actually buying more, or is he continuing to buy what he would have had he not discovered leagues and tournaments? If the latter, there is no actual growth in sales, the kid is just more regular in his schedule of buying cards. Does whatever increase in spending he may do outweigh the costs of OP: badges, scorecards, POP packs, artwork associated with them, shipping?

League has come under an effort to reduce wasteful spending, as in the production of prizes for players OP cannot prove exist and shipping gross amounts of extra product (excess bad!) to leagues that don't need it or can't justify the order.

We know that players who play competitively invest lots of time and money into this game. We know PUI has lots of excess product left over, as most businesses should -- better to have more than have a secondary market price shock when supply suddenly gets cut short.

No, excess product is bad. Business strive to make only what they need to make to satisfy demand because excess is wasteful spending. Such product usually goes clearance as business scramble to make any kind of money on leftover product.

Your analogy of the school kid getting money for good grades does not compare to OP. It's not a matter of a shrinking budget, it's a matter of more people trying to share a budget that has not grown enough to sustain them all at levels they used to operate at.

I don't get why everyone is jumping on the people who complain about the decrease of prizes. I play for FUN and its true, prizes have gone way down. Really, it sucks. Remember when prereleases cost 15$? Wow! Those were the days! Remember the days people would play for a BOX @ citys? WOW those were the days! I'm sure attendance would go up alot if BR prize was ONE box for ONE person. BR's are about the kids/new players but I'm sure even kids would be happier playing for a box instead of, like, 2 packs lol.

Because it is beating a dead horse.
The current rational explanation is that prizes have NOT decreased but are instread spread out over more people/area.

 

[ryanvergel]

What do I expect from the TCG? I expect at least as much as when I entered the game, especially when the game has grown.

Sadly, after dramatic cuts in rewards, and when people ask for rewards equivalent of what we used to receive we are labeled as greedy, like the topic starter suggests. Is it wrong to ask for what we used to get, especially after we've grown the game so much?

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

The current rational explanation is that prizes have NOT decreased but are instread spread out over more people/area.

This is of course a matter of perspective. If I give away $100 a week to 10 kids they will each get $10. If I later expand my operations and give away $150 to 150 kids they each get $1. I'm giving away 50% more but those first 10 kids will all tell me that they hate the 90% cutback in what I'm giving them.

 

[Mama_Schutte]

Good point as always...