Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

What do you expect the Pokémon TCG to give you?

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Scipio

Scipio

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I kind of had it with all the sour grapes we're having about what the Pokémon TCG gives us at the tournaments. So I decided to make this little write-up. I could've sent it as an article submission but I'm not sure if one could count this as an article, I rather see this as something to start a debate. I do not wish to initiate a flame war, I just want people to think about this.

Now, as we have seen, the amount of packs one can win at a Battle Road has changed in favor of the Nrs 3 and 4 in exchange for the Nr 1. The winner still gets a rather valuable promo card and is as such better off then the Nrs. 2, 3 and 4. Still people felt the need to whine about this? Really now?

Look at it this way. You pay a grand price of $0.00 in order to join a tournament (And don't even get me started on those exceptions of people who have to pay but don't whine), and you walk away with free stuff if you win. How can you call that unfair? For a battle road, the smallest kind of tournament throughout the year, Pokémon USA gives away 126 dollars of FREE stuff, assuming an average pack price of $3.50. Seriously, you should be grateful for that.

Then people start whining about gas money. Well, that's your choice, if you were to do anything else outside of your town you'd still have to pay that and odds are it wouldn't be free anyway. You get a fun day for the price of gas money? I'll take that anyday.

And we all know that it's just Battle Roads. You get a few early world qualifying points there. That's it. Battle Roads are there so you can play with fun ideas without a lot of pressure, that's it.

But you know what I think? People expect the wrong things from Pokémon. Those who whine want MORE MORE MORE and they want to give LESS LESS LESS. I bet you that most of those who want more NEVER buy loose packs or a tin, they just harvest their cards from the secondary market, a market from which Pokémon never sees a single penny anymore. Yet they still want more? Hmm.

If you want a game with a cutthroat attitude where at every tournament you can get big winnings in exchange for an entry fee, there are other TCG's, you knew that? Pokémon is not designed for those who just want to win, win, win, win, win and do so by any (legal) means neccesary. This game is intended for the Juniors and Seniors, the Masters have to play with what the lower (and often enough snubbed) divisions get as well.

That's another thing I quickly want to touch upon - the elitist attitude a bunch of Masters seem to hold towards the Seniors and below. I know that on average the Masters have a higher skill level, but there's no need to snub the Seniors and Juniors - I'd like to see an average Master who spouts these remarks challenge the better Seniors and Juniors - he might be in for a rude awakening.

So what do you expect from the Pokémon TCG? I myself play this TCG because it's cheap (Compared to the other TCG's), Simple to play, enjoyable tournament atmosphere, reasonable price support (especially given what you pay to enter) and in general having a good time. I'll take whatever I can win, if I don't win, there's always next week. Why complain about price support when it only adds to the enjoyment of MORE people then just you, you and you? Nobody will win every BR he/she enters, so claiming YOU get worse off sounds rather arrogant, don't you think? I don't think you'll complain if you end 4th, get your 2 packs and find a LVX in it.

And in the end, it's all about the Juniors and the Seniors again. And they will benefit most from this new arrangment.

So think for yourself, what do you expect the Pokémon TCG to give you, and what do you give in return? Do you buy a lot of cards? Do you run a league? Do you help judging events? What do you give in return for all the fun Pokemon has given you?
 
People who have been in the game for a long time remember prize support being better in the early days. Seeing less now they simply want it to be more like it used to be.

Some folks who play other games see amazing prize support there and want Pokemon to be more like that.

I don’t get the sense that anyone is being really “greedy” ... they just want a game they like to be more like the competition or more like they remember it being.

Prize support in general is a way to attract folks to play. Some of the folks wanting “more more more” want it so that the game will stay popular and keep attracting new players. It’s not always about personal gain.
 
Good post with loads of good points.

The whining is about the worst thing in this game.

The way that some people talk you would think they were FORCED to play Pokemon for their job . . . the prizes are too small . . . their 'hard work' and 'skill' isn't rewarded enough . . . they lose to people who have no 'right' to beat them . . . Worlds and Nats isn't held on the street where they live . . . blah blah blah *yawn*.

I'm not saying that people should never complain about Pokemon. It isn't perfect, and apparently they DO listen when there is a legit grievance (like with the JPN card thing). Seriously, though, most people who whine on these boards don't even care about the game as a whole, all they care about is their own, permanently wounded, ridiculously inflated, sense of entitlement.
 
vanderbilt_grad said:
Some folks who play other games see amazing prize support there and want Pokemon to be more like that.
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But for those other games they still only have to give out the prize support to 1 group of people not 3 groups.

If we really examine our prize structure, we probably give out more than the others when you include the number of scholarships. Its one thing to offer 1 PS3 as a prize or a computer to a single winner of a big tournament (of which I am sure the company gets a superior price break), but to give out almost 10k in scholarships at events like our regionals is amazing.

And lets be real honest about product as prizes...competitive players already have the cards they need before they show up at at a tournament.

Pokemon players are treated pretty well.:thumb:
 
Oh, I don't disagree entirely Prof Clay. I don't really need the prize support to keep me playing.

What's different about Pokemon is that the prize support is almost entirely cards, scholarships, travel awards, electronics, and glass. That sort of prize structure is aimed a LOT more at the younger set than the older ones.

Just for example if Pokemon gave cash awards instead of the other stuff it would give masters an entirely different sort of incetive to play. There would be a whole other set of issues too, but it's interesting to think about.
 
It is not so much the prizes, but the road getting to the tournament. (For thoese who need a little bit more details.That is what is it all about. The deck building, testing out the different kinds of decks, trying different techs. the night before, traveling to the event, meeting up with friends..., Big deal, the prizes are not all that. It is a lot more that just winning and prizes. Maybe to the little kids, or young adults, or even the old ones, but we have fun no matter what. The road trips are the best!! Either going up to LA or taveling to St. Louis, memories are priceless.)
 
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Sour grapes about sour grapes, ironic.

How can it hurt to complain? The complainer in question either gets what he wants or he doesn't-very rarely do we see anyone take away for someone complaining. It's either a positive or a neutral outcome, so there's no real reason not to, except the fact that people like you guys complain about complainers.
 
You cant really look at it as just battle roads. Pokemon OP does more for there players than any other tcg out there. And not even a month ago Pokemon jus gave away over $100,000 worth of prizes. Now only a month later they are already giving out more and thats not enough??? Xbox/ps3 are dirt rich and I dont see them holding events year round, giving free prizes. 12packs are about the same price as a new video game. Wheres xbox OP? I like to sit back and enjoy this while it lasts because when its gone you will all miss it. Be happy that these people take the time to organize this for you and not only giving you free packs.
 
I can't speak for anybody other than myself for this.

I play for good games, good times, and some close friends that I probably would've never made if not for this game.

Road trips to tournies are the biggest fun I've ever had. Anybody who's driven for 5+ hours talking nothing but gaming knows exactly what I'm talking about. Not to mention bad singing, random pit stops, and just general lunacy that can only come from a good road trip.

St. Louis was fun for all the RIGHT reasons. 30+ gamers getting together for a softball game in the middle of a city. A hall the size of a football field. 1500+ people all gathered for something they love. Even the heat was somewhat bearable because of the event.

Not to mention every Constructed Premier event is completely, utterly, and 100% free for every competitor. Look towards any other game out there and find one that has that. You can't.

Just for Spring Battle Roads alone, PCI gave away 233 boxes of Pokemon product, plus 699 decent promo cards, to the players, over 233 events. All for free. Given an average cost per box of $100, they gave away over $23k worth of product for that series.

During Cities, they held about 156 competitions in the US alone, giving away over 468 boxes of product, plus free promo cards and pins to everybody that entered, plus all of the side products (such as playmats) that PCI provided. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave away over $65k worth of Pokemon stuff during Cities alone.

I'm probably getting too deep into the numbers right here. My point is that PCI has been MORE than generous with their prize support. They have created a tournament structure that is at least agreeable to both casual and competitive players alike. They have created consistency in Judging and Organizing without having an extensive in-house staff monitoring and organizing every aspect of the game (ILU MTs!!!) There is no game out there with volunteer support similar to this one, and that's because PCI has done a LOT more right than they have done wrong.

Also, notice that PCI is the ONLY video game company (that I know of) that actively sponsors tournaments for its video game franchises. All of the other tournaments for other video games are sponsored by a third party or by gamer contributions. I haven't seen a single first party gaming company giving their video games the kind of OP support that we've seen thus far, and (now that Mike's in charge over there) I believe the VG aspect will only get better!
 
Scipio said:
Now, as we have seen, the amount of packs one can win at a Battle Road has changed in favor of the Nrs 3 and 4 in exchange for the Nr 1. The winner still gets a rather valuable promo card and is as such better off then the Nrs. 2, 3 and 4.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Victory Medal is so much more valuable than the packs. Why don't we take away the pack prizes from first place altogether and make it be VM-6-3-3? That's much more equitable and gives people a fair chance. After all, you don't need the cards if you're able to win a tournament! Help out the person who didn't do as well because they couldn't build the optimal list for their playstyle!

As for what I've given to the Pokemon TCG, I was very active in helping out newer players in three leagues in the NC-SC area. I gave away over $200 of product to help beginners have solid deck, rather than a random mishmash of 1-1-1 lines, to help them get into the game.

The reason I was able to do this? The consolidated prize support. When you spread prizes out over a bunch of people, it's very hard to accrue as many packs, however, when the top four at a cities, PR, or the top two at a BR get packs, it's much easier to build a collection that is larger than necessary, simply by taking brothers' and brother's friends, giving them quality decks, and having them perform above-average to well in the younger divisions.

I expect my brothers to carry on my tradition while I am across the country, and so I work with them on lists and whatnot for these events, however, if they pull another dilution of this kind and prize out T8 at Cities, then they won't win as many cards. They don't win as many cards, they don't have as much to give away. They don't have as much to give away, newer players get frustrated with decks that do not work, which is bad for the growth of the game.
 
Oh, and of course, shipping for all of those boxes must be free too! Plus all the behind the scenes costs - wow! I'm amazed they go to the lengths they do.

I love the game. No doubt about that. Obsessed is probably the correct word. As a parent, I can't say enough of what pokemon has given me, in basic learning skills, fair play, and friendships for my kids. As a player, I've spent many many hours enjoying the interrelationships of the cards, and the interesting gameplay, both luck and skill based. Roadtrips have been spectacular for me as well. As a league leader, I love the faces of kids once they come to me to learn how to play, and thank me for taking the time. As a judge (head judge or otherwise), I love the challenge to keep the game within the rules, and fair to all participants. As a Tournament Organizer, I love how POP and TPCi has given me the chance to run events which are in demand because of all the other stuff I just wrote about. So much so that I try to give back to the players every chance I get (within my limited resourses), which they appreciate so much that I can't remember the last time I didn't get thanked for running an event by one person or more. Add to that the opportunity to be a mod here at the premier pokemon fansite, and repository of the game's rules, yeah, not only that, but the friendships I've found by just getting involved with Pokemon .... Priceless! Good job POP, and TPCi!
 
I agree with everyone except for Vanderbilt Grad.

there is probably at least 500,000 dollars worth of prize support given away at free tournaments such as BRs, CCs, and States, just in the United States alone. Just be thankful that you are one of the given few, out of tens of thousands of players, that gets to dip their greedy claws into that immense prize pool and get a few good cards out of it, or maybe a rare promo.

The ammount of "This Game needs better Prize Support" threads is really appalling. You would still play cards if there was no prizes, so stop whining!
 
Be careful not to imply a sense of entitlement. Too often, I see a "where's mine" attitude amonst us.

A better-worded question would be, "What benefits have you received from the Pokemon TCG?"

IMO, recognition is the key. That recognition doesn't need to be tangible either.

Compensation for "volunteers" must be purportional. For example, locally, we have a young professor who doesn't play the game, seldom-if-ever helps at leagues and non-premier tournaments, but when there's a premier event where booster packs are given as compensation, he's always choosen by our PTO. Some volunteers do it just for the compensation, sad to say.

As players, like any competitive event, you come to expect some form of recognition and prizes for success. The scale of those prizes should be based on a variety of things, foremost of which are:

Product sales
Event level/type
Participants pool
The Economy

POP is head-n-shoulders above their rivals, in comparison. IMO, some Pokemon TCGr's who've never played any other OP have developed an inflated sense of entitlement.
 
Wow awesome post scipio i agree with you 100% i mean like i said in the other thread why wine when its free and you get so much out of it like,playtesting good matches awesome people to be around and if you win you get rewarded ...why ruin a game thats so funn\ for evry one with with whinning about evry thing they do i mean first the \y take away the foriegn ban to make evry who had spent so much on new packs and made it easier on them next they take away marked cards to make the game cleaner and less cheating no they make it to where more people get 3rd and 4th get pacs and people want to complain and ruin thats !!these tourny are for people to play have fun meet new people hope to win and help there points to hopefully later make it to worlds or nats not greedy player that just come for the packs and prizes .
 
I don't expect anything from the game. I play because I have fun with it. It's fun since there are so many possibilities for decks that you can't help but love it. When I go to League, I don't go to win. I go to play and have fun. Sure, I'm a competitive player, but I'm not an elitist Master like a lot of the other Masters are, and I find that annoying.

Age generally has NOTHING to do with gaming skill. I've played Juniors and Seniors who've played good deck and utterly dominated me. I've played Juniors and Senior who had bad decks, but they beat me because I drew badly, or key cards were prized.
 
Yes, good post as well Steve. Entitlement. Unfortunately in a lot of respects, it's like some that are an "only child." Some that are the only child in a family tend to get spoiled a bit at times. Hey, I come from a big family - the youngest of 11 to be honest, and I was spoiled in some ways as well, so don't think I'm ragging on "the only child" here. (a side point - I have said I was so spoiled, that I was the reason my parents stopped!) Let's face it, there's nothing wrong with wanting more, liking more, and even asking for more. If it's available, within reason, and parents (and POP/TPCi) are willing to supply it, there's no reason why that shouldn't be supplied. However if we feel that due to past experience, or because Johnny down the street gets such and such, I/we/him/her should get it too entitlement type thinking creeps in, it's best to nip it in the bud. Whinning and complaining about our lot in life most likely will get a person no where. However reasoned, constructive and calm suggestions will be much more appreciated, and will probably get at least a good response even if the answer is no for the moment.
 
Scipio said:
I kind of had it with all the sour grapes we're having about what the Pokémon TCG gives us at the tournaments. So I decided to make this little write-up. I could've sent it as an article submission but I'm not sure if one could count this as an article, I rather see this as something to start a debate. I do not wish to initiate a flame war, I just want people to think about this.

Now, as we have seen, the amount of packs one can win at a Battle Road has changed in favor of the Nrs 3 and 4 in exchange for the Nr 1. The winner still gets a rather valuable promo card and is as such better off then the Nrs. 2, 3 and 4. Still people felt the need to whine about this? Really now?

A promo card that no one wants anymore because its terrible old and unusable and som SV boosters... AQnd while its a good thing they increased the box ratio, 3 of the LvX are soon to be tin LvX and the entire set looks like a trashcan turned over...

Look at it this way. You pay a grand price of $0.00 in order to join a tournament (And don't even get me started on those exceptions of people who have to pay but don't whine), and you walk away with free stuff if you win.

Cause the cards I use fell from the sky... And I never bought these cards cause I expected to be able to use them in a tournament...

How can you call that unfair? For a battle road, the smallest kind of tournament throughout the year, Pokémon USA gives away 126 dollars of FREE stuff, assuming an average pack price of $3.50. Seriously, you should be grateful for that.

Because they never earned that money from selling us colorful pieces of paper...
Because tournaments arent the only thing that gives buying cards a point... (unless you're a collector) And I dont even want to know what it really costs them...

Then people start whining about gas money. Well, that's your choice, if you were to do anything else outside of your town you'd still have to pay that and odds are it wouldn't be free anyway. You get a fun day for the price of gas money? I'll take that anyday.

If I just play for the fun I cant print my decks and play at league, a tournament is something competetive where people play for the thrill of an exiting tournament, the pressure (at least I like this feeling) and because there is at least somethign to win

And we all know that it's just Battle Roads. You get a few early world qualifying points there. That's it. Battle Roads are there so you can play with fun ideas without a lot of pressure, that's it.

Still if you win a tournament and get a promo card that will colect dust in your bidner because no one wants it and 4 boosters which will most likely have a Sableye G a Lavados a Mawile and a Surfing Pikachu if you're lucky, wouldtn you be dissapointed? And if you get the LvX its the same card that they just released as a tin card and which no one wants anyway

But you know what I think? People expect the wrong things from Pokémon. Those who whine want MORE MORE MORE and they want to give LESS LESS LESS. I bet you that most of those who want more NEVER buy loose packs or a tin, they just harvest their cards from the secondary market, a market from which Pokémon never sees a single penny anymore. Yet they still want more? Hmm.

Cause a secondary market doesnt keep the game going, right? Cause cards on the secondary market just fell from the sky like that, right? Cause secondary market cards dont come from traders which bought tons of boxes? And I'll buy boosters happily if I acn expect to get somethign worth my money, I buy bleach boosters all the time, cause they give you something in exchange. But look at SV, I'd rather give my money to some homeless guy or somethign liek that before buying those boosters, this set is a disgrace, really...
If playing pokemon means that you're supposed to waste money on boosters that you know will not pay off in the end, than I guess I'll really have to stop playing.

If you want a game with a cutthroat attitude where at every tournament you can get big winnings in exchange for an entry fee, there are other TCG's, you knew that? Pokémon is not designed for those who just want to win, win, win, win, win and do so by any (legal) means neccesary. This game is intended for the Juniors and Seniors, the Masters have to play with what the lower (and often enough snubbed) divisions get as well.

Cause there isnt something like a middle way between those...[color]

That's another thing I quickly want to touch upon - the elitist attitude a bunch of Masters seem to hold towards the Seniors and below. I know that on average the Masters have a higher skill level, but there's no need to snub the Seniors and Juniors - I'd like to see an average Master who spouts these remarks challenge the better Seniors and Juniors - he might be in for a rude awakening.


So what do you expect from the Pokémon TCG? I myself play this TCG because it's cheap (Compared to the other TCG's), Simple to play, enjoyable tournament atmosphere, reasonable price support (especially given what you pay to enter)

I consider the money I spent on cards as entry fee as well, otherwise I'd just print out my deck... And IMO the price support just inst reasonable, these guys earn money by selling colorful paper, would it hurt that much to give out a bit more stuff (which probably doesnt cost them anything...) so that one can leave a tournamnet satisfied?

and in general having a good time. I'll take whatever I can win, if I don't win, there's always next week.

If I just want to play for fun I can visit my friends and play with proxy decks. In a tournament I'm forced to buy the real cards, is it that much to expect something back?

Why complain about price support when it only adds to the enjoyment of MORE people then just you, you and you? Nobody will win every BR he/she enters, so claiming YOU get worse off sounds rather arrogant, don't you think? I don't think you'll complain if you end 4th, get your 2 packs and find a LVX in it.

Which probably happens once in 10 BRs and then I get a LvX that PUI just released as a tin card and which is worthless...

And in the end, it's all about the Juniors and the Seniors again. And they will benefit most from this new arrangment.

YOu just won your first tournament and get 4 worthless boosters and a victory medal no one wants to have anymore... O happy day :/

So think for yourself, what do you expect the Pokémon TCG to give you, and what do you give in return? Do you buy a lot of cards? Do you run a league? Do you help judging events? What do you give in return for all the fun Pokemon has given you?
Click to expand...


...


This "PUI gives you these events for free and you still complain, you're such an evil person" bs makes me cringe, really... What do you think PUI is? The girl scouts? The wellfare? Welcome to reality *headdesk*

PUI is a company which wants to sell stuff, in this case colorful pieces of paper...
If they expect me to buy them then they should do something to make we want to buy them.
No I never buy single boosters, cause in the end its a waste of money (everyone who played the SV PR and didnt get like 3 LvX will agree with me). I dont have that much money that I can just buy a booster out of boredom which probably takes the direct route to a trashcan anyway
If they want to change this they have to do something to make boosters more attractive.
Isnt this the most basic rule of a market?

But oh no, these holier than you people treat PUI like the girl scouts and I'm a big meanie for not paying money for cards that will 90% be useless trash. Do you have that much spare money? Good for you, I dont...

We have a new TCG over here (Bleach). The Boosters are 2,5€ in contrast to 4/4,5€ for pkmn. You also get a Holofoil in every booster and the commons are nearly all useable. I already bought like 2 boxes of this TCg, because I know I will get something for my money...

The only real use in buying cards is that you can use them in tournaments, if there werent any tournaments I'd just print me a deck and play my friends for fun / private tournaments.
And even at these tournaments we just get payed back in there Currency. Is it that much to ask for that the one who wins this tournament can at least leave it somewhat satisfied?

Give us alternative art cards (like WoW has), give us promo cards, give us SOMETHING that makes you go away from a tournament saying "this is something cool I just won and I just EARNED" and I'm satisfied. But old promo cards and 4 boosters? And the prices dont even get adjusted to the player numbers? Thats ridiculus really.

BTW, might be BIG NEWS but people want mroe boosters because if you dont get atleast 10 or something you'll go away with a pile of crap 90% of the time...

And how much would it cost PUI to give out some more boosters to reward you for the time you spend with this game? Nothing?!

I'm not greedy or anything but is it too much to expect that, if you win a big tournament, you at elast have your gas bill covered?
Is it too much to expect that, if I win a tournament I can go away saying "this is a cool price I really enjoyed winning"?

Give us a bebes search with an alternative artwork, a playset of usable cards, an all picture uxie, some need sleeves (that dont fall apart if you look at them and dont get you dq'ed for using them...) SOMETHING....
I'd gladly take anything that at least gives you a somewhat special feeling and a payoff.

But over here people mostly try to sell these 4 boosters they just won for like 8€ (16€ original price which is ~22$) and IF they get LUCKY they get rid of them for this price. THen they use the money to cover the food costs of the day. The V Medal goes to the binder and will probably stay there for a very long time. Does this feel like wininng a tournament? Like acomplishing something? Really? I dont think so...

Is it that much to ask that, if you win a tournament, you win something somewhat cool or unique? Something that doesnt give you the feeling like you just got leftovers from the trashcan handed over?

Dont even let me get started about getting half a box of cards after WINNING a very competetive tournament with ~60 people and paying the same that the boosters would have costed for the gas. And then you open the boosters and get 2 somewhat usable holos, 1 trainer and a skymin LvX that just got released as a tin card....

Most "PGs" arent greedy but is it that much to ask that, if you win a tournament, you can at least cover a part of the expences of the day? And that you get something else than trash boosters?


[/rant]

These "Pui is like the girlscouts, they give you everything for free after selling you a ton of colorful paper for a ton of money and you still dare to complain because you think that the fact that you put a lot of time in supporting this game gives you the right to not feel like getting served leftovers from the trashcan after winning a tournament against a lot of really competetive people (and the tournament was the reason to buy these cards to begin this) you are such a terrible and greedy person" people make me cringe....
 
Why complain?

Because nobody will speak your mind FOR you.

With that said, the biggest thing to bother me in the past couple years is last season's K-Value distribution. Nationals should be worth more than States imo!
 
Thanks for the great article!

I have played lots of other games in the past, and believe me if you are getting stuff for FREE, then you have nothing to complain about!
 
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