Porii Sames
Active Member
taking this out of context makes me laugh.
Anyways, this is looking like an even larger donkfest than I had predicted...but I'm pretty sure everyone's playing Sabledonk just for an easy way out.
BR Donk Report Thread
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taking this out of context makes me laugh.
Anyways, this is looking like an even larger donkfest than I had predicted...but I'm pretty sure everyone's playing Sabledonk just for an easy way out.
PokeMedic
New Member
Prove you need more funding for police, fire, and EMS in your area by going around mugging people, committing arson, and causing epileptics to have seizures. Sableye probably wouldn't have been such an issue if people didn't both loathe over it then try to make a point by whipping it out all over Battle Roads across the country. It's taught people one thing: people behave badly when the opportunity allows them.
All Sableye does for the next few months is knock a player out on the first turn. It's not permanent and it's going to be fixed one way or another. People don't just want a format change to get rid of Sableye, they want to knock out nearly the whole metagame so they stand a better chance of winning with a non-meta deck. This is more about the have and have-nots of Pokemon meta than a format problem. TCPi even said that they have other concerns than Sabledonking, so there's something else out there that people aren't privy to.
A lot of people say they care about the spirit of the game; they don't.
A lot of people say they care about the integrity of Play! Pokemon: they don't
A lot of people say they care about the format: they don't
They care about winning, and anything that really really gets in their way just has to go.
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Just so you know, Spedos is the name I made for trainerdos. Speed Dos.
On topic, no one has to play Sabledonk just to prove it's bad for the format. We have enough players who have never won anything in their lives playing it to prove the point. However, it's a legitimate deck so I don't care if you play it to win. But playing it to win a point is dumb.
Porii Sames
Active Member
Yeah, I know what he meant, it was still funny...
evil miltank
Member
This is also totaly different though. A better analogy would be people protest to the goverment when something is going bad. By using sabledonk, its showing strong information to P!P that we have a bad situation. They said that they MAY rotate it. If they saw nobody playing sabledonk, then theyd think its all hype and keep the format as it is. (they would do it for donks too, but it is very hard to keep track of individual donks)
As for nationals/worlds, there would be people who play it and theyd win with it even if they have no skill with it. ill put it in another way. If you just started playing pokemon, and had two choices. One, being an actual skill deck that takes time to pratice and master and you know you will lose with, or, sabledonk, where you could potentially win worlds with even though you just started playing. Almost always, there going to be sabledonk, even if the "newbies" arent intending to be cheap. This could potentially kick players that were meant to play in the top cut, but got cut by some random kid playing sabledonk.
Overall, i think its good for people playing sabledonk. its like telling P!P that theres a huge problem that needs to get fixed. The more people "protesting", the more P!P will see it as a problem.
CMsvW
New Member
The rotation also needs to happen so the same decks don't keep winning. To freshen up the game. By playing Sabledonk, it might look like a broader game, so no need for a rotation :v m eye doing it rite
why dont you protest the game by staying at home and hurting attendance numbers instead of ruining the game for others?
supertyranitar
New Member
I think the fact that no one wants to play in a donk format should be good enough for TPCi to rotate. Factor in the fact that those that do go end up being DISGUSTED, and who can blame them? I sure can't. I don't blame anyone that doesn't want to go to a Battle Road only to be potentially donked. Yeah, that's a real good use of a day.
Don't you get it? Did you miss the early rotation announcement? P!P said it would evaluate the BR decks data in order to decide on wether an early rotation will happen or not, and since EVERYONE wants the early rotation to happen, a lot of players are using SableDONK to prove how stupid and overpowered the deck is, in order for P!P to have data and a good enough sample to rotate to HGSS-on earlier this year.
Seriously what is so difficult to understand about that? People who are using SableDONK are helping the game as it will allow for an earlier rotation to a new format which will get us back to the people with skill winning games. I cannot thank them enough for using SableDONK.
CMsvW
New Member
Oh you Sabledonk players are only doing it for the good of the game?
There are SO many other things that show we need a rotation; is Pokemon going to ignore all of those and only acknowledge Sabledonk?
Seriously, it's silly to me how people ruining a card game tournament think they are martyrs. You're not helping anything. But continue feeling like it , and justifying wasting an entire day doing nothing productive.
Attendance numbers, Number of normal donks counted, the fact we're overdue for a rotation, same decks winning over and over, etc. Nintendo doesn't care about those at ALLLL, right? They only care about Sabledonk :> This is getting pathetic
There are SO many other things that show we need a rotation; is Pokemon going to ignore all of those and only acknowledge Sabledonk?
Seriously, it's silly to me how people ruining a card game tournament think they are martyrs. You're not helping anything. But continue feeling like it , and justifying wasting an entire day doing nothing productive.
Attendance numbers, Number of normal donks counted, the fact we're overdue for a rotation, same decks winning over and over, etc. Nintendo doesn't care about those at ALLLL, right? They only care about Sabledonk :> This is getting pathetic
Dude just read the freaking announcement?! They told us to show how unhealthy it is and so we do. Most players dont care that much about brs and dont mind saccing them for playable nats.
e:/ And no they obviously dont care about it enough to do a rotation earlier, they said they know that the format is bad right now anyway but not bad enough to do an early rotation, sableye is the only reason for a rotation...
e:/ And no they obviously dont care about it enough to do a rotation earlier, they said they know that the format is bad right now anyway but not bad enough to do an early rotation, sableye is the only reason for a rotation...
CMsvW
New Member
Donk decks are the only reason for rotation? JUST LIKE HOW UXIE DONK MADE A ROTATION HAPPEN, M I RITE?
Sabledonk is different though, mang. It's speecciiiaal. It gets cheap wins...you know, unlike Uxie Donk. Which Pokemon sort of ignored.
I read the "freaken" announcement. Why don't you actually read one of my posts and try countering the individual statements instead of going all "OMGUOIGNORANTDUDEREADDISmeekrobYOUDUNGETIT" on me.
Saying Sableye is the ONLY reason for rotation is ignorant. Pokemon never said they were looking exclusively for that. You don't know how they are working. You be assuming, yo :v Maybe you should go reread the announcement.
Sabledonk is different though, mang. It's speecciiiaal. It gets cheap wins...you know, unlike Uxie Donk. Which Pokemon sort of ignored.
I read the "freaken" announcement. Why don't you actually read one of my posts and try countering the individual statements instead of going all "OMGUOIGNORANTDUDEREADDISmeekrobYOUDUNGETIT" on me.
Saying Sableye is the ONLY reason for rotation is ignorant. Pokemon never said they were looking exclusively for that. You don't know how they are working. You be assuming, yo :v Maybe you should go reread the announcement.
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The reason why Uxie donk was manageable was because it had to go second to explode. Sableye just breaks everything in this format. They aren"t looking exclusively for Sabledonk numbers, but the vast numbers of sableye getting played to counteract Sabledonk. Go read some reports, and you will probably find out that almost every single deck that has won now plays 4 Sableye. You will also find out the more than 50% of games end on T1 because of Sableye. How can you ignore that? Stop thinking that you know everything when you clearly are just ignorant.
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I feel like the Policeman/Fireman analogy is flawed, so bear me out while I try to flesh it out so it more closely resemble the situation that is. For the purpose of this analogy, I'm just going to stick with firemen.
The people at Play! Pokemon (Biggie, Exobyte, Pete, Etc.) are the firemen. Much of the rest of TCPi is the city government. The firemen have recently been forced to change the way they fight fires by the federal government (The Pokemon Company). They have no option in the matter, but the downside is that some fires are more difficult to take out using the new methods. Now if they could outlaw certain kinds of heating sources that caused these more difficult fires then it wouldn't be a big issue, but the city government won't let them. The city government doesn't see the need since it's only a few months until these laws come into effect anyway. Besides, people complained about the fires, but it didn't stop them from buying new homes and the newer heating sources for those homes.
The city government feels it's a non-issue. The firemen see better. They have a lot of hands-on experience fighting these kinds of fires, and they've been listening to the citizens who have also seen a correlation between the two. The problem is they don't have any real figures to show to the government. While they can explain the problem with the heaters, they can't actually show the city government solid proof that it's been happening. They don't normally have to report on the small fires they fight. However, they knew there was a time coming up when a lot of people would be turning on their heaters for the first time in awhile.
What was once a few-and-far-between thing is now going to occur more frequently. So the firefighters talk to the city government and say, "listen, if these fires do crop up more often, could we push the new law through early?" The city government agrees, and knowing that the citizens need to be informed of any new laws they send out a press release that says they might have the law come into effect early. Now some citizens see this and just shrug. It's going to happen anyway whether it's early or not. Others look at it, though, and see that there's a serious possibility of the fires during the winter months to burn down the entire city. They have already switched to the new heating systems, but because they don't want the entire city to burn, they're bringing back their old heaters just this once in an attempt to prove that there is a problem.
Is this selfish? Yes. In a perfect world, the citizens would all get together and agree to switch to the new heaters on their own. But the problem is that some citizens have decided it's in their interest to run the old heaters (they're cheaper and heat more quickly), and would not conform, possibly burning down the homes of the people beside them in the process. So the people that shrugged are now angry at the people who are bringing back the old heaters. The even more frustrating thing is that some of the people who shrugged are planning on going on a vacation over the winter and won't need to use their heaters at all. So everyone starts yelling at everyone else instead of yelling at the people who deserve it: the city government.
Anyway, I think that's a much closer analogy to the current situation. If anything flew over your head, I'd be happy to explain.
The people at Play! Pokemon (Biggie, Exobyte, Pete, Etc.) are the firemen. Much of the rest of TCPi is the city government. The firemen have recently been forced to change the way they fight fires by the federal government (The Pokemon Company). They have no option in the matter, but the downside is that some fires are more difficult to take out using the new methods. Now if they could outlaw certain kinds of heating sources that caused these more difficult fires then it wouldn't be a big issue, but the city government won't let them. The city government doesn't see the need since it's only a few months until these laws come into effect anyway. Besides, people complained about the fires, but it didn't stop them from buying new homes and the newer heating sources for those homes.
The city government feels it's a non-issue. The firemen see better. They have a lot of hands-on experience fighting these kinds of fires, and they've been listening to the citizens who have also seen a correlation between the two. The problem is they don't have any real figures to show to the government. While they can explain the problem with the heaters, they can't actually show the city government solid proof that it's been happening. They don't normally have to report on the small fires they fight. However, they knew there was a time coming up when a lot of people would be turning on their heaters for the first time in awhile.
What was once a few-and-far-between thing is now going to occur more frequently. So the firefighters talk to the city government and say, "listen, if these fires do crop up more often, could we push the new law through early?" The city government agrees, and knowing that the citizens need to be informed of any new laws they send out a press release that says they might have the law come into effect early. Now some citizens see this and just shrug. It's going to happen anyway whether it's early or not. Others look at it, though, and see that there's a serious possibility of the fires during the winter months to burn down the entire city. They have already switched to the new heating systems, but because they don't want the entire city to burn, they're bringing back their old heaters just this once in an attempt to prove that there is a problem.
Is this selfish? Yes. In a perfect world, the citizens would all get together and agree to switch to the new heaters on their own. But the problem is that some citizens have decided it's in their interest to run the old heaters (they're cheaper and heat more quickly), and would not conform, possibly burning down the homes of the people beside them in the process. So the people that shrugged are now angry at the people who are bringing back the old heaters. The even more frustrating thing is that some of the people who shrugged are planning on going on a vacation over the winter and won't need to use their heaters at all. So everyone starts yelling at everyone else instead of yelling at the people who deserve it: the city government.
Anyway, I think that's a much closer analogy to the current situation. If anything flew over your head, I'd be happy to explain.
CMsvW
New Member
I agree with everything you said,I run 4 Sableye myself. I don't see how I'm being ignorant, I'm simply stating that Sabledonk is one of MANY things that Pokemon is looking into and thinking that running Sabledonk will make or not make rotation happen is just assuming things.
Respond to my other part of a post before calling out the ignorance, I mean, thats stuff you wanna completely back up. Hurting my feelings like that, gah :<
Anyway, if every deck is running 4 sableye or s spiritomb out of fear of Sabledonk. plus with all the normal donks around. Do we really need 5-6 sabledonk players at each tourny to prove a point? Nt rly, I think the fear, reaction, and plain donks are enough proof.
I said that you were being ignorant at the fact that you were saying that Sabledonk virtually has no affect on if TPCI is going to rotate when its probably the majority reason why. If half of the players in a tournament are playing a deck designed to win on T1, then they will see those numbers, and make a decision. Having people stay home from tournaments wont do a thing. It will lower the amounts of Sableye getting played, but that is also bad for people who are planning to go to Nationals and Worlds this year because TPCI will just say that the numbers werent bad during Battle Roads. That is why people are all making sabledonk/sableye based speed decks. Like others have said before, these are just Battle Roads. Its not they they give out any good points or anything. I generally go to see friends and trade.
CMsvW
New Member
Honestly, I don't think Sabledonk is going to have an effect.
I believe that rotation is happening, no matter what. I could be wrong, but everything I've seen points to that. I don't think the mention of a rotation would have even came from Pokemon unless they knew it was happening. Plus, merchandising n such. I think our blisters don't have diamond and Pearl packs anymore for a reason. Not to mention, I don't see why we'd copy Japan's rules...but not their rotation.
Next off, why would Pokemon ONLY acknowledge Sabledonks? Every BR I've been to or heard about has been recording the number of donks to show to Pokemon. If Pokemon is going to ignore those donks, they'll ignore Sabledonk. We don't need Sabledonk to show that donking is a problem that is everywhere. Sadly, you'll have donks in just normal games.
And lastly, there is more than donking that has to be looked into. The same decks keep winning, the format needs to be made fresh, etc. There's a lot of stuff to be looked into before a rotation happens, not just donks. It seems that a lot of people seem to think that donking is THE THING to bring on rotation, but there's a lot of factors in play and I think ignoring rest of those is ignorant.
So, the way I see it anyway, sure Sabledonk might help make the rotation happen. So will lower attendance numbers, same decks winning, people complaining, etc. Even if Sabledonk is the only way to show we need a rotation (It isn't, but for the sake of argument), the deed should be done now. It's invaded and placed in enough BRs to prove a point, there's no reason to keep it going.
I'm fairly new to this game, I wanna have my last bit of fun with the format before it's over... I don't think Sabledonk is having any effect except ruining these tourneys now.
I believe that rotation is happening, no matter what. I could be wrong, but everything I've seen points to that. I don't think the mention of a rotation would have even came from Pokemon unless they knew it was happening. Plus, merchandising n such. I think our blisters don't have diamond and Pearl packs anymore for a reason. Not to mention, I don't see why we'd copy Japan's rules...but not their rotation.
Next off, why would Pokemon ONLY acknowledge Sabledonks? Every BR I've been to or heard about has been recording the number of donks to show to Pokemon. If Pokemon is going to ignore those donks, they'll ignore Sabledonk. We don't need Sabledonk to show that donking is a problem that is everywhere. Sadly, you'll have donks in just normal games.
And lastly, there is more than donking that has to be looked into. The same decks keep winning, the format needs to be made fresh, etc. There's a lot of stuff to be looked into before a rotation happens, not just donks. It seems that a lot of people seem to think that donking is THE THING to bring on rotation, but there's a lot of factors in play and I think ignoring rest of those is ignorant.
So, the way I see it anyway, sure Sabledonk might help make the rotation happen. So will lower attendance numbers, same decks winning, people complaining, etc. Even if Sabledonk is the only way to show we need a rotation (It isn't, but for the sake of argument), the deed should be done now. It's invaded and placed in enough BRs to prove a point, there's no reason to keep it going.
I'm fairly new to this game, I wanna have my last bit of fun with the format before it's over... I don't think Sabledonk is having any effect except ruining these tourneys now.
Sandslash7
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
You've got your facts wrong. Pokemon has NOT "only acknowledged Sabledonk." They have said nothing of the sort. Read the press release again. Here
You are all over the place in your first and second paragraphs. What are you trying to say?
1: Read the press release again (yes a third time).
2: With that knowledge, we can make some notes:
- The rotation IS happening, the only thing we don't know is the timing. I don't know why you keep saying "why we'd copy Japan's rules but not their rotation." By reading the press release, we can clearly see that the rotation is going to occur.
- "Pokemon" is not saying anything about a specific deck.
Besides, merchandising doesn't necessarily pertain to what the rotation is anyway, so that point is null.
4: Finally, if there was any CHANCE of a mid-season rotation, "Pokemon" would do well to (and did well by) alerting the competitive field of that CHANCE. Lets imagine a couple scenarios:
ONE: No chance of rotation before Nats
"Pokemon" would not let anyone know. The format dies inside and no one has fun.
TWO: No chance of rotation before Nats
"Pokemon" lets people know there might be a rotation, just to mess with them. People have even LESS fun, since the overabundance of donks ruins the fun of the game. No rotation and mass riots/panic/mayhem.
THREE: Chance of rotation before Nats
"Pokemon" lets people know of the chance, and with the heads up, people show how broken the format is. The rotation is made, and the format regains a semblance of health.
FOUR: Chance of rotation before Nats
"Pokemon" does NOT let people know. Then rotates: Mass panic/mayhem/riots follow. Or doesn't rotate: see ONE.
FIVE: Rotation before Nats
"Pokemon" lets people know they have the power as an illusion to appease the masses, then does what they were going to do anyway. This is pretty deceptive and not a good business strategy.
SIX: Rotation before Nats
"Pokemon" gives no warning. Mass panic/Mahyem/Riots.
"Pokemon" has been VERY GOOD at listening to the players in the past few years. I must commend them on this point. The league promos, rotations, and other stuff really has shown they DO care about the player base. This issue is just another example.
Many people complained that the format was going to drop into the abyss with the BW rules and other cards in the format. With that in mind, they polled the players in the only logical way they could. Use the results of BR's to determine whether the format is healthy, and go from there. If the players as a whole showed that the format truly WAS broken, then they'd rotate. If the format is JUST AS diverse as before, without a main preponderance of a certain type of deck, then no rotation.
Why would they give us the "option" if the decision was already made? That makes no sense...
TL;DR?
You don't understand the issue, and have made missteps in your logic at minimum. You also don't like Sabledonk. Which is fine. But don't base your worldview on opinion issues like that.
espeon200: EXCELLENT metaphor. I feel that deserves verbal recognition. WELL DONE.
sableye master
New Member
Well I played sabledonk at 2 Br's here's how it went
1st BR
1st game: start sableye but he starts tomb kill tomb but he gets out vile-plume but get 5 prizes win because of time. close one
1-0
rest of my games where donks 4 sableye starts one uxie start one unown Q start
win tournament:biggrin:
2nd BR
all donks except second game I play g-dos and lose. no top cut because we only have 5 players all of them good in 1760-1840 range win tournament :biggrin:
feel kinda bad for the players i donked I hate sabledonk now making new deck now
1st BR
1st game: start sableye but he starts tomb kill tomb but he gets out vile-plume but get 5 prizes win because of time. close one
1-0rest of my games where donks 4 sableye starts one uxie start one unown Q start
win tournament:biggrin:
2nd BR
all donks except second game I play g-dos and lose
. no top cut because we only have 5 players all of them good in 1760-1840 range win tournament :biggrin:feel kinda bad for the players i donked I hate sabledonk
now making new deck now
CMsvW
New Member
I started to make a full response to Sandslash, but I thought "what's the point of responding to their every statement if they aren't gonna do the same for me?"
I get what you're saying and agree with most of it, but again, the only thing I'll say is this; to prove this format is broken, we don't NEED to play Sabledonk. The format can be proven to be broken without anyone even making that deck. If Sabledonk is your only solution to making a rotation, you're not looking at the big picture. (Which is, there's a lot more factors that go into making a rotation)
I get what you're saying and agree with most of it, but again, the only thing I'll say is this; to prove this format is broken, we don't NEED to play Sabledonk. The format can be proven to be broken without anyone even making that deck. If Sabledonk is your only solution to making a rotation, you're not looking at the big picture. (Which is, there's a lot more factors that go into making a rotation)
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