GodBlessAmerica
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The argument being made is that the card-dex should be updated and a card-dex reference should be enough.
Computer Search and Why Both Forms Should Be Legal
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The argument being made is that the card-dex should be updated and a card-dex reference should be enough.
ShadowCard
Active Member
They don't make decisions based on secondary market values. That a card can be acquired for pennies doesn't factor in.
Aron Figaro
New Member
Right. That's why they've blindly made numerous decisions to try to flatten the secondary market (pushing high value cards down)? That's been the push from Japan, to try to get the primary demographic of Pokemon back - low to middle income families with kids. For all the years I've played Pokemon, upper class/rich kids have been mostly absent from the community. Their numbers haven't really changed - but everyone else's numbers have.
EX block, and the introduction of the "big money rare" (relatively speaking, of course, but back in base set up to, say, Gym, most holos went for enough that you could bulk trade for competitive stuff more cheaply) really caused a downturn in the player base. It didn't help that Neo block bombed, and a LOT of players just slept through Expedition and played Unlimited, but I found it was really when EX Sandstorm came out (everyone stayed on for the first EX set as it was the new thing) card shops were starting to get emptier.
I didn't really see people start coming back until DP block, and the new strategy of making the game more accessible through promos. That went on until the "big money Lv.X"...and down we went, not as bad. Then...things kept going back up. and up.
Down again, due to the depression we're in.
Are we going to keep going down?
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
Aron: Consider the historical context. WOTC had just completed a 2 year campaign to destroy this game. There has to be some kind of after-effect from something like that. Don't attribute the attendance drop to the introduction of a higher rarity scheme when it was FAR more attributable to the carpet bombing of the previous couple of years.
Aron Figaro
New Member
Bullados: it depends where you go, I guess; nothern california had a pretty good run of Expedition block, and remembers it fondly, whereas EX block was pretty much empty halls everywhere I've been except LA.
BlisseyRocks
New Member
I just wanted to point out that computer search WILL NOT be anywhere near $100. Trollandtoad made the first pre-order listing for the card at $8, which makes me presume it will be around $20-$25 when the set releases. With that said, it will likely stay at $20. Luxray Lv.X spike in price was none other than the fault of the vendors that price these cards. Luxray was easily a $40 card, but these vendors get greedy with the way other games work and attempted to bring upon those same horrible prices unto this game. Fortunately, TPCI released the EX tins which cut the spike on rayquaza and killed darkrai and mewtwo's price(so us players didnt spend big bucks for the mid season of battle roads)
Aron Figaro
New Member
I really question that, BlisseyRocks; If Luxray was a $40 card, and it was all a conspiracy, why wasn't there a "rogue vendor" selling out at around $60 each? Prices are generally what the market will bear, and a lot of top players are glad to have "elitist" prices. I see a lot of people trying to inflate prices, especially in smaller communities, and control the competitive community. Luxray Lv. X and Uxie Lv. X made this easy.
Will Computer Search be the same way? If the pull rate is what people are saying, most certainly.
As for T&T's price, they also probably read the floor rules and realized the old ones should be legal, hence not marking it up too much. They also don't always acquire enough stock to fill their preorders; sometimes to the point where they cancel hundreds if the price skyrockets on them.
Will Computer Search be the same way? If the pull rate is what people are saying, most certainly.
As for T&T's price, they also probably read the floor rules and realized the old ones should be legal, hence not marking it up too much. They also don't always acquire enough stock to fill their preorders; sometimes to the point where they cancel hundreds if the price skyrockets on them.
i think if enpugh ppl reply to this and it gets a hold of the right person they might change the ruling because its ridiculous. the price of the card is gonna be expensive, its already sold im out of trollandtoad. they should allow the reprint and just make it so anyone who plays it gets a deck check.
psychup2034
New Member
No offense to you, but I think it's a little naive to think that TPCi will systematically listen to the requests of the players, considering they don't even have an avenue for regular communication with players.
A lot of TCPi's decisions have to be broadcast through the 'gym. TPCi doesn't have a blog where they communicate with players (and where players can post feedback). These inactions indicate that TPCi has little intention of establishing better communication with their customers.
Of course, I would love for TPCi to prove me wrong and start communicating in a more direct way with their customers.
Skitty
New Member
The problem with that is the players would have to have a referance. And back when Japanese cards were legal there were alot of people that didn't know what the correct referance they needed looked like. At least 70% of the people I saw using a referance just had a scan or picture of the English card on a piece of paper, which obviously wasn't a legal referance.
psychup2034
New Member
They could, for example, break precedence (as they have umpteen times before), and issue an errata.
BlisseyRocks
New Member
I think you misunderstand how this worked. You could EASILY get a Luxray Lv.X on ebay for $60 around the time it was $80, but the community as a whole still valued it at $80 BECAUSE Trollandtoad is their primary price guide. It still works this way, Just a $5 gap instead if a $20 gap. I barely saw Luxray's being bought OR traded for when it was that high, yet it stayed around that price until it was rotated. Luxray and Uxie were expensive because the sets were harder to find at the time(uxie was the first to jump in price, and the elder of the two)
Aron Figaro
New Member
At least in California, Uxie was actually the second to jump in price and I regretted not snagging Uxies at $40-50. I could've been trading Luxrays for Uxies at 2:1.
As for EBay, easily is really not a good way of putting it - a lot of those Luxrays were fake, World Championship cards, etc. It was the #1 most counterfeited card I've ever seen, and I was dating a card shop owner at the time. It was not a fun time to be buying cards on EBay, especially not Luxray GL Lv. X. The commonly traded price was what it was; if you want to gamble on EBay for a lower price, you run the risk of getting burned.
As for EBay, easily is really not a good way of putting it - a lot of those Luxrays were fake, World Championship cards, etc. It was the #1 most counterfeited card I've ever seen, and I was dating a card shop owner at the time. It was not a fun time to be buying cards on EBay, especially not Luxray GL Lv. X. The commonly traded price was what it was; if you want to gamble on EBay for a lower price, you run the risk of getting burned.
Swordfish1989
New Member
If you're shopping on ebay, you're rarely, if ever, going to get burned because of buyer protection. If you receive a fake or damaged card, or don't receive a card at all, all you have to do is complain to ebay and there's at least a 95% chance you'll win the case. The other 5% would be if, for example, they sent with delivery confirmation (that shows delivered) and you claim to not have received.
Now if you want to avoid risks, then do your diligence before you buy. If the card is coming from China, it's not a good sign and I would avoid. If the seller has a lot of negative feedback, again, I would likely avoid. I wouldn't discount cheap prices as being problematic goods right off the bat though, as I have sniped some amazing cards off ebay for half the regular price and never had any problems. In fact, I've easily bought over $4k in cards since June and haven't had issues yet. The closest thing I had to a problem was a card arriving damaged because USPS butchered it, but the seller sent me a free replacement.
Team CREAM
New Member
Practice safe reprints
ogremarauder
New Member
Maybe the price part; but not the playable or not part. Regardless of whether or not it stays under $__ (insert arbitrary price tag), there is still the fact that it is a functional reprint. Basically if the old one is errata'd to function as an ace spec, it should be allowed for play. If not, then thats asinine. And before the "Who gives a damn about unlimited?"comments let me just say that it IS a format. Supported or not.It is still recognized. As such it still deserves vigilance by the game creators to keep some semblance of continuity in this game as a whole.
Otaku
Active Member
There is also the underlying principles that govern such things to consider; older copies being allowed for use due to reprints is generally what makes reprints so welcome, especially for cards that have so many previous printings. The handling of this situation does not bode well, and personally damages my confidence in the game.
Aron Figaro
New Member
Not until an official amendment of the Tournament Rules is published on the Play! Pokemon website to provide a consistent ruling on functional reprints. This is going back to my debate on the procedural inconsistency of rules in Pokemon again, a very scathing Guild editorial, and other places I was hoping the game wouldn't have to go again. I consider this one much worse than the Ninetales/Smeargle/Terrakion EX/compendium QA issue, because this one provides a potential barrier to entry for new competitive players.
One of the best and most generous and helpful league leaders on my area has already announced that he is ragequitting over this. Being the rules maintenance geek I am, I couldn't argue against him besides "wait to see where the coin really lands".
Will this decision cost Pokemon a lot of players? No. It will cost them a few very good community-oriented people like this, and that will cost them players. If he leaves, I don't know who will take over the league; he's relatively new, the previous league organizers aren't coming back (they were stealing from the store) and the league is mostly new players. I'd hate to see the only league out there go, as I think the next closest league is mine, and it's about 60 miles out.
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