2013-2014 Modified Format?

[evil psyduck]

Could be they are waiting until worlds to announce rotation.

 

[Pablo]

Doesn't the season end very soon and Worlds 2013 is part of the new season? I guess we'll know with the start of the new season.

 

[evil psyduck]

New season starts 09/01/13 i believe.

 

[Tagrineth]

My entire point Prime was that expensive cards have always existed, in every format, and more often than not, those were the strongest decks.

 

[Thatguy99]

I think the rotation will have a good chance of taking out catcher because they reprinted rare candy and put the catcher effect on genesect. So then after that they would take a good number of the good decks out and then they can start fresh in a sense. Or they might do a mid season rotation when enough x-y sets come out but then do a deep rotation to like plasma storm.

 

[Envoyofduels]

Could be they are waiting until worlds to announce rotation.

I was thinking that as well since the changed the set up from last year.

 

[Ninja]

I think DRX-on would be good. 5 sets is good enough for me xD

 

[Otaku]

My entire point Prime was that expensive cards have always existed, in every format, and more often than not, those were the strongest decks.

A true observation, however it is also true that "expensive" is relative and that while expensive cards have always existed, this is a format where we have both expensive deck specific cards (thankfully somewhat mitigated by reprints) and expensive "general usage" cards, plus a lack of non-expensive alternative decks (due in part to the latter)... and again, some of us didn't like how expensive the cards were then or now. You know, pieces of colorful cardboard printed at the behest of Creatures, Inc. and distribution of which they control.

 

[yoshi1001]

My entire point Prime was that expensive cards have always existed, in every format, and more often than not, those were the strongest decks.

I think the other side's point is they feel this generation has gone to new extremes in terms of how expensive, and more importantly, how "locked into" those cards they feel they are if they want to be remotely competitive. Players are used to buying a certain amount of product to build a deck and the current trend toward super-premium cards has alienated them. Even people who can afford to buy more don't enjoy wading through the larger amount of filler, forcing them to either buy cards individually or make frequent use of bulk sales.

To be honest, I think the real solution here is to have a second modified with tighter restrictions. It wouldn't have to be used for premiere events, but having a second sanctionable format focused on "lower-end" cards would reduce burnout and likely lead to more pack sales. That's probably a discussion for another thread, however.

 

[Swordfish1989]

A true observation, however it is also true that "expensive" is relative and that while expensive cards have always existed, this is a format where we have both expensive deck specific cards (thankfully somewhat mitigated by reprints) and expensive "general usage" cards, plus a lack of non-expensive alternative decks (due in part to the latter)... and again, some of us didn't like how expensive the cards were then or now. You know, pieces of colorful cardboard printed at the behest of Creatures, Inc. and distribution of which they control.

Ok, decks today are incredibly cheap. An SP deck would cost me a fortune.. and it did back in the day. Two Luxrays at $60 each.. Uxie at like $50, then you ran 4 Poke Turns at $10 each, Garchomps even though in tins were like $7 each at least. And the rest of the SP engine was not cheap.

Today? Outside of Plasma you can build most competitive decks for less than $150; some for less than $100. And they last for months. Plus, you pay $50 for 4 Catchers and you don't lose it... you own the Catchers and can sell them when you want. AND they've already gone out of the way and printed the biggest ex Pokemon in tins! Even the biggest pokemon in Plasma will be in tins! Even big non-ex Pokemon were reprinted in theme decks - Eelektrik and Blastoise. The only card you can make an argument for being expensive is Beach. That's it. RayEels was on top for almost a year and it's main Pokemon are UC and a tin Ex. The Shiny Rayquaza was even reprinted in Dragons Vault if you wanted to run it. Darkrai deck's big pokemon are Darkrai, Sableye, and now Absol... at a cost of $7, $2, and $3 respectively. Blastoise (outside of Beach), consists of Keldeo (tin), Blastoise (theme deck), and Black Kyurem ex. Everything big in Plasma will be in a tin... Deoxys, Thundurus, and Lugia. The only cards that won't be tinned are Kyurem and Tornadus (if you play it). Mewtwo, which sees play in a ton of decks, is also in a tin. Arguably, the only playable EX Pokemon that aren't in a tin today and cost more than $10 are Black Kyurem, Landorus, and Mew.

Therefore, things are much cheaper today than they used to be. They've done a LOT to make it cheaper.

We can't have every card be a common. We just can't.

 

[Pablo]

New season starts 09/01/13 i believe.

I don't think so. The 2012 - 2013 season started before Worlds (so sometime in July, not sure exact date) and thus CP's for Worlds '12 counted towards this season. The modified format changes didn't take effect until 09/01/12 but the season started much earlier than that, so I'd expect the same of this season.

EDIT: After logging in to my account at Pokemon.com, looks like the new 2013 - 2014 season begins today July 8th actually.

 

[logan1975]

A little bit of history here....

List of Modified formats in the last 10 years
====================================================


2003-04 Expedition to EX Hidden Legends
(no info on previous format)

2004-05 EX Ruby & Sapphire to EX Emerald
(3 editions rotated)
Skyridge
Aquapolis
Expedition

2005-06 EX Hidden Legends to EX Holon Phantoms
(4 editions rotated)
Team Magma vs. Team Aqua
Dragon
Sandstorm
Ruby and Sapphire

2006-07 EX Deoxys to Diamond & Pearl
( 3 editions rotated)
Team Rocket Returns
FireRed and LeafGreen
Hidden Legends


2007-08 EX Holon Phantoms to Majestic Dawn
( 5 editions rotated)
Legend Maker
Delta Species
Unseen Forces
Emerald
Deoxys

2008-09 Diamond & Pearl to Unleashed
(4 editions rotated)
EX Holon Phantoms
EX Crystal Guardians
EX Dragon Frontiers
EX Power Keepers

2009-10 Diamond & Pearl to Rising Rivals
(no rotation)
:thumb:

2010-11 Majestic Dawn to Black & White
(4 editions rotated)
Diamond & Pearl
Mysterious Treasures
Secret Wonders
Great Encounters


2011-12 HeartGold & SoulSilver to Dark Explorers
(7 editions rotated)
Arceus
Supreme Victors
Rising Rivals
Platinum
Stormfront
Legends Awakened
Majestic Dawn

2012-13 Black and white to Plasma Blast
(5 editions rotated)
Call of Legends
HS - Triumphant
HS - Undaunted
HS - Unleashed
HeartGold & SoulSilver

2013-14 ???


Rotated editions (2003-2013)
=========================================================
Call of Legends
HS - Triumphant
HS - Undaunted
HS - Unleashed
HeartGold & SoulSilver
_________________________________
Arceus
Supreme Victors
Rising Rivals
Platinum
Stormfront
Legends Awakened
Majestic Dawn
Great Encounters
Secret Wonders
Mysterious Treasures
Diamond and Pearl
___________________________________
EX Series
Power Keepers
Dragon Frontiers
Crystal Guardians
Holon Phantoms
Legend Maker
Delta Species
Unseen Forces
Emerald
Deoxys
Team Rocket Returns
FireRed and LeafGreen
Hidden Legends
_______________________________________
Team Magma vs. Team Aqua
Dragon
Sandstorm
Ruby and Sapphire
________________________________________
E-Card Sets
Skyridge
Aquapolis
Expedition

Now , with facts in hand, go on to argue...

 

[Swordfish1989]

Logan, correct me if I'm wrong, but by your analysis, it looks like they like keeping 9 formats in at any time, tend to rotate 4 sets at a time, and rotate whenever there's 13+ sets that are legal.

We currently have 9 legal sets, which is their ' go to' when starting a new season, so by those looks we could say no rotation. At worst we could say 3-4 sets rotate out, to go with the averages above. But there's no indication of an extreme rotation... not by those statistics.

 

[Tagrineth]

Logan, correct me if I'm wrong, but by your analysis, it looks like they like keeping 9 formats in at any time, tend to rotate 4 sets at a time, and rotate whenever there's 13+ sets that are legal.

We currently have 9 legal sets, which is their ' go to' when starting a new season, so by those looks we could say no rotation. At worst we could say 3-4 sets rotate out, to go with the averages above. But there's no indication of an extreme rotation... not by those statistics.

No, the base number of sets in a format was less than that. The only time they kept 9 sets was when they did a no-rotation followed by 4 sets. They then rectified that with an emergency mass-rotation to force the format back down to a manageable size.

 

[dialga master]

tl;dr

So... the "new" season has started. No announcement=no rotation?

 

[Swordfish1989]

No, the base number of sets in a format was less than that. The only time they kept 9 sets was when they did a no-rotation followed by 4 sets. They then rectified that with an emergency mass-rotation to force the format back down to a manageable size.

Ah, so you're saying that the format started with less than 9, ended with around 9? That's likely; I looked at it only briefly. That would mean Next Destinies-on or Dark Explorers on would be consistent with both the # of sets at rotation + the average # of sets rotated.

 

[KazamBolt]

Ah, so you're saying that the format started with less than 9, ended with around 9? That's likely; I looked at it only briefly. That would mean Next Destinies-on or Dark Explorers on would be consistent with both the # of sets at rotation + the average # of sets rotated.

Yup, they've liked to have 6 sets legal for the fall tournaments usually and thusly end with 9. This is Pokemon's only real precedent in determining the rotation IMO because they did officially acknowledge this plan at one point if I remember correctly.

 

[Otaku]

I think Prime...

...can someone point out where Prime posted? I can't find it. Either he's agreeing with me and I'd like to see it or someone called me "Prime" by accident. If it was the former, enjoy a laugh at my blindness and epic failure with Ctrl+F. If it was the latter, you owe Prime an apology. :tongue:

Ok, decks today are incredibly cheap.

No, they aren't. This will get a bit lengthy, but please bear with me.

The $150 you cite isn't "cheap", it is less expensive. Some TCGs have very expensive decks, but just because one is less expensive than another doesn't make it "cheap" (a.k.a. affordable or reasonable). If a game requires $1000 decks to be competitive (one probably does), that doesn't mean that a game where decks "only" require $500 is affordable or even reasonable - it just means it is less expensive.

The converse is also true. If there is a game where you can build a competitive deck for just $25, that doesn't make a game where competitive decks run $50 an "expensive" game. This is before we consider deck structure, like smaller or larger decks or games where the deck might contain a large amount of very inexpensive cards (like Basic Lands or Basic Energy).

That $150 can do a lot in other places, and some people just can't afford that for their hobbies. Pokémon does not need to make sure the best deck in the world can be afforded by any player, but there should be at least one or two competitive decks that are friendly to a variety of budgets. Never forget that the game is played using inexpensive (to manufacture) pieces of cardboard (giving a lot of leeway in adjusting card supply) and that reprints matter; not just for existing but for when they are released.

Oh, and SP isn't that long ago; for a long time player that's still just the "modern" game, or at least only yesterday. :lol:

 

[Swordfish1989]

Feel free to use play on words, Pokemon is both cheap AND less expensive. You can use your excuse with just about anything to avoid calling it cheap, so sorry, it doesn't work. With your excuse you can say a 2 cent piece of cabbage is only less expensive than the 4 cent carrot but not cheap.

Pokemon is a MAJOR card game. It's not Vanguard or Kaijudo and a bunch of other rather nameless TCGs. People know what Pokemon is. Among the big 3, it IS the cheapest one. Among hobbies in general, it's probably one of the cheapest hobbies around. My Plastation 3 has cost me more than Pokemon ever will - and I only buy 3-4 games a year. The sports I play cost me more money (equipment, reserving space). EVERYTHING in my life costs more money than Pokemon; not just hobbies. My gas bill, my food bill, my living expenses... everything. It is by far the cheapest thing in my life.

To go with that point, the $150 bill that comes with Pokemon is NOT a recurring expense. You're not spending that every week, or even every month, or even every set! You might spend that originally to build a Tier 1 deck, but new cards only come out every 3 months... so if you're going to change your deck, you might swap out a few cards and call it a day. And guess what - you can trade/resell some of the cards in your deck to get the new ones you need. And if you do well, you get more stuff... and tournaments are FREE. Heck, even if you decide to completely change your deck every time a new set comes out, your cards aren't worthless. Your Catchers and most of your TSS will stay. Energies are pennies. You might resell/trade the Pokemon for what you need and in the end you'll spend, what, maybe a $20 bill or two if you're terrible at trading/selling/buying?

The current deck I run? I've been playing it since like February and will probably continue to run it until the next set comes out. I don't buy booster packs, I don't try to foil out decks, don't buy merch, I basically only drive out to league, play, and trade.

I'm sorry, but if your budget is SO tight that the concept of spending, say $300 a YEAR on products for your hobby is something that worries you, maybe you have bigger priorities that need examining and you shouldn't be wasting your money on cards. I know that if I suddenly lost my job, Pokemon would not be a priority for me.

 

[Otaku]

Feel free to use play on words, Pokemon is both cheap AND less expensive.

Actually, the big point is you're the one playing with language. You're selecting terms that while technically accurate are misleading. "If X is expensive, and Y<X, then Y is cheap!" seems to be your argument.

You can use your excuse with just about anything to avoid calling it cheap, so sorry, it doesn't work. With your excuse you can say a 2 cent piece of cabbage is only less expensive than the 4 cent carrot but not cheap.

That was the point; you need context or else the relationship is meaningless; just because two items have different costs doesn't automatically make one "expensive" or the other "cheap". As already explained:

The converse is also true. If there is a game where you can build a competitive deck for just $25, that doesn't make a game where competitive decks run $50 an "expensive" game. This is before we consider deck structure, like smaller or larger decks or games where the deck might contain a large amount of very inexpensive cards (like Basic Lands or Basic Energy).

...and instead of quoting more of what you said, writing an even longer wall of text rebutting your points piece by piece, a lot of it comes down to how you value money. You're tossing figures like "$150" pretty freely. No, I don't have $150 to spend on Pokémon each year which is why I don't play competitively. I don't expect you to have read everything I've ever written, but I do try to make that clear from time to time (especially in the CotDs I write elsewhere). Now... why do you think I am alone? Why do you not value money properly?

If your hobby truly is a hobby (not a second career or the like), it should be the least expensive thing in your life. Food, shelter, transportation, charitable giving... these things should come first and will far outweigh it individually (let alone together) and after those come savings and insurance. I am writing this late, and I am probably forgetting many things (note that "family" factors into all of that) and maybe swapping a few around unintentionally.

TL;DR: $150 isn't much to you but it is a lot to me, and it has been for most players I know. 10 years ago an inexpensive but competitive deck was $20... or needed to be, but instead we settled for over twice that at $50. Now twice that is a budget deck, so yes I consider that "expensive".