AMU vs: Machamp SF

[lolganium]

This is soo stupid. If kingdra can swarm, goes as fast as amu, and can win the matchup, I don't see how amu has ANY chance against a guy that OHKOs them for 1 energy while they take 2 turns to KO one champ. This is idiotic. G? Oh boy, I have to attach a 2nd energy and then level up. Plus champ X's attack lets it flip to live (with pp or buck's, another easy prize for the champ player), and then the champ player can go bonkers and, with a heads, can wreck the pixie with another energy drop (though its completely unnesicary, and I'd take another of his level X attack again). Honestly, theres no debate here. Machamp>>>>amu.

but your not seeing the whole picture, how can champ beat gengar? it comes out the same time, nd theres no way that champ can donk it, and everyone will play gengar so therefore champ wont be playable anyway! thats a point that me and another have already made. g can be called in, so you can donk the amu starter, ten you gotta flip to get anymore.

 

[Brady1]

So what beats gengar? Dusknoir obviously. Oh wait, we're getting like 8 of those. :/ And dusknoir doesn't beach champ so we're back to square one (by cheating. The cycle is much longer). Also, champ can work around this with a smaller trainer engine. 4-3-4 champ, 3-3 claydol, 2-1 uxie, 2 regirock, 2-4 spaces to techs, 4 call, 12 fighting. Thats at least 40 spaces, so only 20 trainers. Gengar needs to hit (against a champ anyways) 4 of those, which should be a rarity (espically with claydol/regirock's ability to burn through them if nessicary). Yes, then they can get sniped by gengar, but thats not killing any champs. If amu can constant get G when champ comes out (though the deck shouldn't even see play after the new set comes out, but thats another point) after he's KOing every poke you send up, then it deserves to win. But thats very unlikely.

 

[lolganium]

So what beats gengar? Dusknoir obviously. Oh wait, we're getting like 8 of those. :/ And dusknoir doesn't beach champ so we're back to square one (by cheating. The cycle is much longer). Also, champ can work around this with a smaller trainer engine. 4-3-4 champ, 3-3 claydol, 2-1 uxie, 2 regirock, 2-4 spaces to techs, 4 call, 12 fighting. Thats at least 40 spaces, so only 20 trainers. Gengar needs to hit (against a champ anyways) 4 of those, which should be a rarity (espically with claydol/regirock's ability to burn through them if nessicary). Yes, then they can get sniped by gengar, but thats not killing any champs. If amu can constant get G when champ comes out (though the deck shouldn't even see play after the new set comes out, but thats another point) after he's KOing every poke you send up, then it deserves to win. But thats very unlikely.

once again... brick wall people...

gengar will wipe the floor with champ

you have to evolve maually against gengar, no candy allowed, this stores at least yur candies in your hand, uxie? what? conviluted much? i think a deck needs like at least 25 trainers... so like hitting some of them shouldn't be a problem. plus the fact that you can get 2 energy on gengar and hit champ twice before it can get 4 on and rage you is another nice factor to consider.... unless your gonna flip coins again :lol:

i dont really know why i bother... what do i really care that people will play champ and lose... not really my problem tbh. have fun with your [DEL]loosing[/DEL] winning machamp decks that is obviously so awsome im fighting this argument just do make you all doubt the deck you wanna play so that you dont and lose because of it... :nonono:

 

[Chromecatz]

I dont see why the heck you are arguing about dusknoir and gengar. The topic clearly says amu vs machamp =/
Brady1 already won the thread with some common damn sense. If there are decks that are build to get t1 kingdra 75% of the time, then there can, and will be some made around machamp.

 

[DarthPika]

*sigh*

It seems lolganium is the only one here besides me who actually knows how a good AMU works, and what it can do... >_>

This thread reeks of ignorance, flawed logic, random assumptions and guesses about AMU. I seriously doubt half the people here even know what a good AMU looks like... :/

Please don't make stuff up about the deck. Go do some research and play testing before making uninformed posts about the mechanics of AMU.

Machamp is all donk. AMU with Unown G should win most of the time.

BTW, please don't give me that garbage about how a t2 champ beats AMU every time. Your not going to get it THAT often, and when you do, its not going to matter if your against an AMU or a stage 2 deck. Bottom line is, if you pull a t2 champ, theres a good chance your going to win against ANY deck. duh lol

 

[lolganium]

*sigh*

It seems lolganium is the only one here besides me who actually knows how a good AMU works, and what it can do... >_>

Machamp is all donk. AMU with Unown G should win just about every time.

BTW, please don't give me that garbage about how a t2 champ beats AMU every time. Your not going to get it THAT often, and when you do, its not going to matter if your against an AMU or a stage 2 deck. Bottom line is, if you pull a t2 champ, theres a good chance your going to win against ANY deck. duh lol

true i know how AMU works... and i know how champ and gengar works... with turn 1 ghastly roaming around will you make a deck based on getting a turn 1 candy donk? if the answer is yes then you got more balls than brains imo (can i say that? is that too graphical and notso PG??? really?). and brains are what counts. if you've read ghastly then you will know where im coming from, and you should (using that mentioned 'common sence') know that it will defo alter the ideal of the turn one stage 2 donk-o-matic.

but once again i will graciously bow out of a discussion, i thought i'd give posting on this forum one last try, but the fact that the open forum becomes a flame war and worse maybe even a nerd battle every time you post has lead me to decide to join the ranks of those that dont post what so ever. its easier that way... i wont get banned then either... much better.

so have fun discussing, but this whole forum for me and many others is just for observation, cause getting involved is just too much hassle with these people who act hard on an online forum through a keyboard. and also the people that dont accept others oppinions in playing; you are the worst, i admit sometimes i wasn't always the most acceting person, but i do try to be open minded sometimes...i like a healthy discussion but i think i'll give the flame and nerd wars a miss for now...

cheers babes :thumb:

^my new 'end of message' tag

 

[revdjweb]

what if AMU decks start teching in gastly, if not a 1-1-1 gengar line, where does that leave machamp? don't say it won't work because if there is anything AMU decks are good at, it is getting basics in play asap.

 

[Brady1]

once again... brick wall people...

gengar will wipe the floor with champ

you have to evolve maually against gengar, no candy allowed, this stores at least yur candies in your hand, uxie? what? conviluted much? i think a deck needs like at least 25 trainers... so like hitting some of them shouldn't be a problem. plus the fact that you can get 2 energy on gengar and hit champ twice before it can get 4 on and rage you is another nice factor to consider.... unless your gonna flip coins again :lol:

i dont really know why i bother... what do i really care that people will play champ and lose... not really my problem tbh. have fun with your [DEL]loosing[/DEL] winning machamp decks that is obviously so awsome im fighting this argument just do make you all doubt the deck you wanna play so that you dont and lose because of it... :nonono:

Your obviously trying to convinece people not to play champ for some dump reason. Obviously you think gengar is amazing, though its really more of a donk card then champ. Have fun with your flips. I have to manually evo against gengar? Because gastly? Oh boy, so I draw an easy prize with choke compared to a fight with champ....sounds hard. Obviously you haven't played very many decks, becuase alot of decks can work with under 20 trainers. My rgon list had under 20 and I won 2 states with it. You seem to love flipping coins here. My original list had regirock...wow, guess what? Its not just energy excel (that 4 energy rage looks more like 2-3 to me), but it dumps my trainers (oh boy, wheres gengar going now?). Champ can 2 gengar with 2 heads+level up (odds say that 2 heads is in my favor).

Why do I bother. What do I really care that people will play amu and realize "Oh, theres like 40 decks that beat it...but I'm bad so I'll waste my time at cities and try to win with it". I love how you assume that because I'm making a logical case that Machamp beats amu that I, or anybody else, will be playing it (though he will always have a special place in my heart...).

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

*sigh*

It seems lolganium is the only one here besides me who actually knows how a good AMU works, and what it can do... >_>

This thread reeks of ignorance, flawed logic, random assumptions and guesses about AMU. I seriously doubt half the people here even know what a good AMU looks like... :/

Please don't make stuff up about the deck. Go do some research and play testing before making uninformed posts about the mechanics of AMU.

Machamp is all donk. AMU with Unown G should win most of the time.

BTW, please don't give me that garbage about how a t2 champ beats AMU every time. Your not going to get it THAT often, and when you do, its not going to matter if your against an AMU or a stage 2 deck. Bottom line is, if you pull a t2 champ, theres a good chance your going to win against ANY deck. duh lol

PM list. I doubt you have anything behind a 3rd or 4th version of the deck.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

true i know how AMU works... and i know how champ and gengar works... with turn 1 ghastly roaming around will you make a deck based on getting a turn 1 candy donk? if the answer is yes then you got more balls than brains imo (can i say that? is that too graphical and notso PG??? really?). and brains are what counts. if you've read ghastly then you will know where im coming from, and you should (using that mentioned 'common sence') know that it will defo alter the ideal of the turn one stage 2 donk-o-matic.

but once again i will graciously bow out of a discussion, i thought i'd give posting on this forum one last try, but the fact that the open forum becomes a flame war and worse maybe even a nerd battle every time you post has lead me to decide to join the ranks of those that dont post what so ever. its easier that way... i wont get banned then either... much better.

so have fun discussing, but this whole forum for me and many others is just for observation, cause getting involved is just too much hassle with these people who act hard on an online forum through a keyboard. and also the people that dont accept others oppinions in playing; you are the worst, i admit sometimes i wasn't always the most acceting person, but i do try to be open minded sometimes...i like a healthy discussion but i think i'll give the flame and nerd wars a miss for now...

cheers babes :thumb:

^my new 'end of message' tag

LOL.:lol: Machamp is a donk deck? If he didn't even have that effect on his first attack, he would still see testing/playing. He just has an amazing abliity to draw a fast prize. Big deal. Jeeze, good luck with gengar. Seriously, he's a tier 2 deck that has very interesting attacks/power but nothing that screams brokeness. I don't get how champ is a donk deck (with 2 slugish attacks) yet kingdra is legit. Boy, common sence is a rarity.

Sounds like you have no reason to even post here, espically when you try to give the public false information. You sound alot like a politician here.

You make it sound like your some kind of deity...are you running this year? You have my vote. Idk if this is a general addres, but I definatley act "hard" outside of the web. Have fun with the lack of flames (I don't see any, but thats okay) and gl in the real world.

 

[Ky00ber the III]

I cannot understand lolganium at all. It seems as if he's trying to win by sheer density?

A deck that has a good chance of donking>a deck that needs set-up. Probability ftw, perhaps even with a card that's as hilarious as machamp. lol

 

[Jane]

I think Burninating Torchic brings up REALLY nice points here, especially, if AMU sets up fast, they probably have 1 LVLX of each on their bench, which isn't necessarily hard to do by t3 i guess if you get decent cards, but really: they KO your starter, whatever it may be, you KO their basic they have up with your machamp for 1 energy and they have to set up another pixie. AND they have to get energies back, which, even if they play energy pickup, is annoying and tough to do. those first few turns worth of energy is a waste. And, AMU doesn't seem as consistent as you seem to make it. If you play with a starter such as jirachi or the new sableye, or even the old sableye, it shouldn't be hard to get a t3 Machamp with 1 energy on it.

Brady1 also helps the arguement a bunch..

and lolganium, I don't think enough of your points were based on AMU beating champ, more just flaming champ...

 

[ShinySwampert]

*sigh*

It seems lolganium is the only one here besides me who actually knows how a good AMU works, and what it can do... >_>

This thread reeks of ignorance, flawed logic, random assumptions and guesses about AMU. I seriously doubt half the people here even know what a good AMU looks like... :/

Please don't make stuff up about the deck. Go do some research and play testing before making uninformed posts about the mechanics of AMU.

Machamp is all donk. AMU with Unown G should win most of the time.

BTW, please don't give me that garbage about how a t2 champ beats AMU every time. Your not going to get it THAT often, and when you do, its not going to matter if your against an AMU or a stage 2 deck. Bottom line is, if you pull a t2 champ, theres a good chance your going to win against ANY deck. duh lol

Dude, you tend to do this a lot. You downplay anything that poses a threat to AMU.

Machamp OHKOs everything in AMU for ONE ENERGY. Whether it's T-2 or T-10, that will own AMU. No way AMU will get 6 prizes before Champ does. You'll get KO'ed, KO a Champ, get KOed again, and again, and again. Machamp would have to have a horrible start and get Benched out to lose that matchup.

with this format you cant afford to hit a tails. its no good.

...Yet you likely play 4 Energy Pickup in your AMU.

 

[DarthPika]

Dude, you tend to do this a lot. You downplay anything that poses a threat to AMU.

No, I'll say if something beats it. FYI, I don't really see the point of this discussion as AMU has a VERY hard time against many SF decks.

Machamp OHKOs everything in AMU for ONE ENERGY. Whether it's T-2 or T-10, that will own AMU. No way AMU will get 6 prizes before Champ does. You'll get KO'ed, KO a Champ, get KOed again, and again, and again. Machamp would have to have a horrible start and get Benched out to lose that matchup.

Your assuming that Machamp will actually get set up. You also forget that Unown G makes Machamps first attack a 3HKO, and that lake boundary makes you cry. There are also several other new trainers/stadiums out there that make the AMU/Champ matchup even more in AMU's favor.

 

[Brady1]

....With g, machamp takes the entire match to not draw a prize with its first attack. :/ Lake boundary? Oh now your just trying. :/ Agreed on the whole amu=dead after SF.

 

[Suicide]

When people say that Unown G will kill Machamp's ability to I have to agree that machamp will lose to AMU if they have the Unwon G. However if they run Unown g in as a tech what makes them think that they'll be getting the ideal perfect hand first turn. I happen to believe that if, and that's a big if, AMU players play Unown G as a tech as opposed to other cards they will only open two slots in their deck at most for their Unown G tech. However with only two Unown G the amount of times that you will draw into the Unown G in the first hand is very unlikely as there is only a small chance that one or both of those cards would be in the first 13 cards of the deck. I say 13 because of Azelf to go through the prizes. Even more so is that everyone defending AMU believes that they will be set up turn 3 which isn't always the truth.

This assumes that you have all seven cards you need to complete your combo and stop Machamp from donking you and you killing him (not counting the energy). However Machamp only needs a measely 4 cards including the energy to kill AMU or begin the destruction and more so he can setup on T1 if that player goes second. even better is the fact that i don't even have to setup the machamp as a starting pokemon if i have warp point in my opening hand i can banish your pixie and kill another without Unown G affecting the game play or I could tech in Regice to be even more certain of killing you.

Overall Machamp is a good card not a great card as there are many ways to beat him. however of this i am certain if Machamp plays against an all basic deck he will most assuredly take the win as he can do much more faster than any potential all basic deck in the near foreseeable future.

 

[(TYranitarFReak)]

The bad thing about champ is that its 2nd and 3rd attack really..... s****.

It doesnt really stand any chance aginst other decks.

 

[Blaziken 1111]

When people say that Unown G will kill Machamp's ability to I have to agree that machamp will lose to AMU if they have the Unwon G. However if they run Unown g in as a tech what makes them think that they'll be getting the ideal perfect hand first turn. I happen to believe that if, and that's a big if, AMU players play Unown G as a tech as opposed to other cards they will only open two slots in their deck at most for their Unown G tech. However with only two Unown G the amount of times that you will draw into the Unown G in the first hand is very unlikely as there is only a small chance that one or both of those cards would be in the first 13 cards of the deck. I say 13 because of Azelf to go through the prizes. Even more so is that everyone defending AMU believes that they will be set up turn 3 which isn't always the truth.

This assumes that you have all seven cards you need to complete your combo and stop Machamp from donking you and you killing him (not counting the energy). However Machamp only needs a measely 4 cards including the energy to kill AMU or begin the destruction and more so he can setup on T1 if that player goes second. even better is the fact that i don't even have to setup the machamp as a starting pokemon if i have warp point in my opening hand i can banish your pixie and kill another without Unown G affecting the game play or I could tech in Regice to be even more certain of killing you.

Overall Machamp is a good card not a great card as there are many ways to beat him. however of this i am certain if Machamp plays against an all basic deck he will most assuredly take the win as he can do much more faster than any potential all basic deck in the near foreseeable future.

Because it's so much easier to get a G out than a machamp. Your not going to get T1/T2 machamp unless you build specally for it and in that case if they get set up you lose because you don't have much stopping power mid game.

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

The bad thing about champ is that its 2nd and 3rd attack really..... s****.

I've said it before and it bears repeating here. Machamp's second attack is good. Flipping 4 coins makes a huge difference. Statistically the more dice you roll or coins you flip the smoother the probably curve becomes and the more regular it's results. Flipping 1 is totally random. Flipping 4 gives you 16 possible results ... 15 of which result in some damage done. You have a 68.75% chance of doing 60 or more damage and only a 6.25% chance of doing no damage at all. On average Machamp's second attack is dealing 30 damage per energy which is an above average ratio.

Machamp's 3rd attack is simply too costly to use most of the time ... possibly excepting decks with energy acceleration of some kind (togekiss, regirock, etc.) ... but it has amazing synergy with the level X. 60+damage is good by itself, not much can OHKO Champ. If your opponent does 70+ damage odds are strong that Champ is going to be able to OHKO him back. With the level X you can attack with Follow-Through to avoid being KOed then attack for 260 damage. I suspect that most champ decks will not focus on this attack but if you are mostly attacking for 1 or 2 energy then getting 4 on something can happen once during an average game IMHO.

 

[Brady1]

^Nicely put. Now if you factor in the level X, machamps second attack suddenly becomes 0, 90, 120, 150, or 180, and 3 of those results (with maybe a bucks/pp) reach or surpass that magic 130 mark. It's going to ko you. Its up to you to ko him back (if you don't, you pretty much have no chance).

 

[DarthPika]

When people say that Unown G will kill Machamp's ability to I have to agree that machamp will lose to AMU if they have the Unwon G. However if they run Unown g in as a tech what makes them think that they'll be getting the ideal perfect hand first turn. I happen to believe that if, and that's a big if, AMU players play Unown G as a tech as opposed to other cards they will only open two slots in their deck at most for their Unown G tech. However with only two Unown G the amount of times that you will draw into the Unown G in the first hand is very unlikely as there is only a small chance that one or both of those cards would be in the first 13 cards of the deck. I say 13 because of Azelf to go through the prizes. Even more so is that everyone defending AMU believes that they will be set up turn 3 which isn't always the truth.

This assumes that you have all seven cards you need to complete your combo and stop Machamp from donking you and you killing him (not counting the energy). However Machamp only needs a measely 4 cards including the energy to kill AMU or begin the destruction and more so he can setup on T1 if that player goes second. even better is the fact that i don't even have to setup the machamp as a starting pokemon if i have warp point in my opening hand i can banish your pixie and kill another without Unown G affecting the game play or I could tech in Regice to be even more certain of killing you.

Overall Machamp is a good card not a great card as there are many ways to beat him. however of this i am certain if Machamp plays against an all basic deck he will most assuredly take the win as he can do much more faster than any potential all basic deck in the near foreseeable future.

In a deck that runs 4 roseanne, 4 bebe and numerous draw cards, a simple basic tech is stupidly easy to get out.

 

[Suicide]

Machamp can Tech in pachirisu to get rid of unown g