Ban List - Which Cards?

[Kayle]

I'll try this again. Luck is part of the game, even when it comes to drawing your first 7cards at the beginning every of game of Pokemon.

If you're trying to communicate a different point you aren't succeeding.

Yes, luck is definitely a part of the game. I did say I wanted a CHANCE to get to my strategy. Not a guarantee.

I'm not going to pay $200 to play 8 rounds of a game where that chance is only 25% (hint: it's actually less than that).

And testing doesn't need to be complex, it should just be a play through.

Like this?

 

[PokeMedic]

Like this?

Thank you. I needed to see one. See you at Nationals.

 

[baby mario]

I'll try this again. Luck is part of the game, even when it comes to drawing your first 7cards at the beginning every of game of Pokemon. And testing doesn't need to be complex, it should just be a play through.

Not this again.

A certain amount of luck has always existed in Pokemon. We know. We accept that.

Why some people use that to justify ramping up the luck factor to ridiculous levels is beyond me.

You're right about one thing though: Sabledonk does not require complex testing. A poorly trained monkey could go 50-50 with it.

And they will.

 

[toxictaipan]

Not this again.

A certain amount of luck has always existed in Pokemon. We know. We accept that.

Why some people use that to justify ramping up the luck factor to ridiculous levels is beyond me.

You're right about one thing though: Sabledonk does not require complex testing. A poorly trained monkey could go 50-50 with it.

And they will.

It's like they don't listen.

 

[Tagrineth]

If I could ban any four cards:

1. PokeTurn - the key to making SP ridiculous. Banning this would remove SP's ability to

a. heal any pokemon to full on a whim
b. heal their field to full over and over with Healing Breath
c. Bright Look repeatedly
d. Flash Bite repeatedly
e. "free retreat" out of any pokemon no matter its retreat cost

They'd lose their entire prize denial game, have to ration their tiny number of Crobat drops, and suddenly have to worry enormously about bench space.

If they used Super Scoop Up instead, they'd be relying on unsearchable coin flips. Seeker provides a benefit to their opponent ("Why certainly, I will pick up my Uxie/Mesprit/Half-Dead Beater!"), so that's also a vastly inferior option, on top of only being able to play one in a turn.

2. Sableye, for reasons already stated which I agree with. I've seen current UxieDonk builds that are capable of winning even longer games, without sacrificing donk potential at all... SableyeDonk doesn't HAVE to win on the first or second turn to be scary, but the far-too-high probability of losing before taking a turn is awful.

That's... it, actually. I don't think I'd ban anything else.

 

[FriedBlaziken]

Banning Poketurn is just silly, it makes SP pretty much unusable, not to mention Gyarados would be rampant if your suggested bans were made.
The answer is not to ban a certain card which completely eradicates a decktype. As I said before limiting the card to 1 per deck seems logical to me..
Limiting Sabelye to 1 means the chance of a T1 collector into giratina mesprit and impersonate cyrus initiative isn't going to happen that often and there would be less t1 donks.
Limiting Crobat to 1 also decreases the chances of a T1 donk - most SPs and other stage 2 decks only use 1-2 anyways.
And lastly limiting Uxie to 1 is a MUST. The amount of times I've seen someone come back from nothing to a winning position by setting up for 4-5 cards is ridiculous , heck I've even done it myself. The card is ridiculous and limiting it to 1 is VERY fair. 2 max. Banning this card outright would slow many decks down too much.

Why not limit BTS: stage 2 decks and gyarados would be less viable, leaving sp to sweep
poketurn, cyrus, egain? sp would be unusable, leaving vilegar, gyarados etc to sweep

pretty much what I'm trying to say is that limiting these 3 cards would make the playing field even after the implementation of B/W rules.. all decks would continue working as normal, and sabledonk/lock doesn't destroy everything in its path. IF you think sabledonk/lock sucks, try getting powerlocked, judged or let loosed, as well as losing up to 2 cards from your now 4 card hand. this leaves you wiht 3-5 cards in your hand + whatever basics you started with, good luck trying to win. add chatot stuffing up your draws and sableye or garchomp romping through your basics... you're in for a rough ride.

......either that or just don't implement the rules yet

 

[Kayle]

Banning Poketurn is just silly, it makes SP pretty much unusable

I don't see why a deck can't be pretty much unusable after two years of total dominance.

 

[vaporeon]

Woah, you mad brah? Porri is right, you have to get lucky or they have to get unlucky -which is like drawing your hand at the beginning of every game just like it has been forever and ever. Who is going to play test these scenarios to see for themselves? I'll be doing it at my league and I suppose I'd better put up some results.

Let me say this. When the Pokemon TCG was healthy, when I started playing during the ex series, games were not based on opening hands, top decks, etc. The common Pokemon in peoples decks were Pidgeot FRLG because it helped setup. EVERYONE was on the same playing field, no matter what deck you played.

Luck never played a role in a game like it did in this format and maybe the next. No amount of math is going to make any player feel better. I have a chance of opening bad, just like my opponent. Math is assuming that everyone shuffles the same, when they don't. There are 2 problems. One is that they tried to set this game up like the video game. The player that goes first SHOULD NEVER be allow to attack on their first turn.

The rule should be that both players can not knock out any Pokemon on their first turn, that way everyone can try to set something up. The way Pokemon is going is that we are getting a Legend on format or cards are going to start getting banned, starting with Vileplume.

 

[chriscobi634]

If they were ever going to ban something they would ban what would make the biggest difference without banning the most cards.

They never would do this because it is a horrible idea but if they really want to change things up while at the same time fix a donking issue Poketurn would be ideal.

BLAH BLAH BLAH it would wreck SP decks BLAH BLAH

^ Who cares at this point?

Pokemon won't ban cards anyways.

Rotation! If Pokemon Tournaments were a democracy there would be a rotation. I haven't personally talked to anyone who doesn't want it done. The people who are worried about a rotation are thinking oh man I wont have cards to use. Not oh man the game is going to suck.

So I got this crazy idea, say they don't ban anything for Nats, what really keeps us playing under this horrible OP?

Every time they say they get their budget lowered but every time you see attendance numbers raising. Doesn't make sense at all. With more and more players appearing at Premier Tournaments it should be that they are selling more product, getting more money. Quite frankly OP has been on a down fall ever since the 2007 season, but attendance number keep raising. New players are fine with that because they weren't around when more prizes were given out. Prizes keep getting lowered, formats keep getting screwed up, and we still stick around simply because of our love for Pokemon. I wanna go into a huge rant on how we should all stop playing OP and start our own player based OP. Who's with me?

 

[AlmightyGoldenGarchomp]

I think if you ban cyrus's conspiracy, nerf sableye, all problems are solved.

 

[TheDarkTwins]

Drew you need to have an issue with 3 out of those 4 cards you listed because Sableye, Uxie, and Crobat G are the engine that drives the first turn kills. The other cards you listed cant even get out once the Sableye player goes 1st.

In a SP mirror you can tank Dialga and Warp it to the bench all you want but if the other player is holding a Power Spray and Sprays Garchomp X, then Garchomps heal is useless. Also against Vileplume - Dialga G Lv X shuts that down. And again for Luxray X there is Power Spray in the mirror match to stop that. So really its not SP that is a problem its the other 3 cards that you dont have a problem with??

You are looking at it the wrong way.

Sableye doesn't need to get banned. It shouldn't get banned. It has been around for what 3 years and until the rule change there wasn't an issue with it. Same with Uxie and Crobat. There were decks that used them, but in all honesty, they weren't in the dominating fashion that they are being talked about now. 2 of the 3 cards will most likely be rotated in September. There is a chance (I don't think it will happen) that all 3 will. I don't have an issue with a card that has been around so long not being banned for the 4 months that people think it will be everywhere.

Drew

 

[Tagrineth]

Banning Poketurn is just silly, it makes SP pretty much unusable, not to mention Gyarados would be rampant if your suggested bans were made.

Why would Gyarados be any stronger than it is with PokeTurn and Sableye banned? Gyarados is even one of the decks that abuses PokeTurn. You're not making any sense.

The answer is not to ban a certain card which completely eradicates a decktype. As I said before limiting the card to 1 per deck seems logical to me..

Limiting cards to 1 generally turns the game into "who draws their best 1-of first". NOT a good idea.

Limiting Sabelye to 1 means the chance of a T1 collector into giratina mesprit and impersonate cyrus initiative isn't going to happen that often and there would be less t1 donks.

Limiting Sableye to 1 basically bans the card, since it's only really good first turn.

Limiting Crobat to 1 also decreases the chances of a T1 donk - most SPs and other stage 2 decks only use 1-2 anyways.

Limiting Crobat g to 1 would do absoultely NOTHING to the format, and wouldn't even badly affect the Donk decks. Limiting Expert Belt would be more effective, but then it would turn the 1-of Belt into a game-winner the moment you hit yours, and make the card even more of a staple than it already is.

And lastly limiting Uxie to 1 is a MUST. The amount of times I've seen someone come back from nothing to a winning position by setting up for 4-5 cards is ridiculous , heck I've even done it myself. The card is ridiculous and limiting it to 1 is VERY fair. 2 max. Banning this card outright would slow many decks down too much.

Turnaround cards are VERY IMPORTANT in this game. Restricting turnarounds means once a player starts to pull ahead their opponent might as well scoop up their cards. Also, if Uxie was limited to 1, all it would really do is make Seeker even MORE of an important card.

Why not limit BTS: stage 2 decks and gyarados would be less viable, leaving sp to sweep
poketurn, cyrus, egain? sp would be unusable, leaving vilegar, gyarados etc to sweep

pretty much what I'm trying to say is that limiting these 3 cards would make the playing field even after the implementation of B/W rules.. all decks would continue working as normal, and sabledonk/lock doesn't destroy everything in its path. IF you think sabledonk/lock sucks, try getting powerlocked, judged or let loosed, as well as losing up to 2 cards from your now 4 card hand. this leaves you wiht 3-5 cards in your hand + whatever basics you started with, good luck trying to win. add chatot stuffing up your draws and sableye or garchomp romping through your basics... you're in for a rough ride.

And what's the key card in your paragraph here? That's right, Sableye, one of the cards I suggested banning.

So why are you disagreeing with me, again?

 

[luxray master2]

i think if i could ban some cards i would have
uxie la banned because it is to good because u can just discard your cards and refill your hand its just way to overpowered especially with the cards we have in this format
thats realy the only card i think that deserves to be banned in my opinion

 

[Cyrus]

*BAN Sableye. This card is now beyond redemption, and in the right deck list, can produce a near-perfect first turn triple donk every time.

*RESTRICT Crobat G to one per deck. Although an extraordinary card, it's not actually that harmful in and of itself to this format. Rather, it's the engines at work that make it so broken.

*RESTRICT Uxie to one per deck. Although an extraordinary card, it's not that actually that harmful in and of itself to this format...When you allow only one.

 

[Tagrineth]

Uxie really cannot be removed from the format without a functional replacement of some sort. Juniper has a pretty harsh drawback which can hurt some decks badly, but it's the kind of card we really need to replace it.

Is Steven in BW at all? lol. Needs Steven's Advice back.

 

[vaporeon]

I would LOVE the return of Stevens but even that card would suck due to Vileplume and hands being biggers then 5. What we really need to do is ban Sableye, Crobat G, Poketurn and at least limit Uxie for the rest of the format and ban Vileplume for the next format.

 

[Paperfairy]

stop playing OP and start our own player based OP. Who's with me?

Totally 100% off topic, but I will say that competitive video game battlers have been doing this FOR YEARS with great success. YEARS. Like, over a decade. Why can't we?

 

[Ninjask88]

I say not cards need to be banned, BUT one card needs to be changed. Should be simple enough since they are doing it to Rare Candy. The card is Crobat G, and it's Poke Power should read this instead:

Once during your turn, when you play Crobat G from your hand onto your Bench, you may put 1 damage counter on 1 of your opponent's Pokemon. You can't use more than 1 Flash Bite Poke-Power each turn.

Shouldn't that solve the problem?

 

[PhadedPhione]

All of these knickers in a twist and all could have been prevented by freezing B/W rules coming into effect until after Worlds. Of course, that creates its own problems but it is a better alternative than trying to ban cards or dealing with Championeye.

 

[losjackal]

Shouldn't that solve the problem?

Only when the opponent has 3 basic pokemon to start with.

Otherwise if they have 2, Seeker takes care of getting the benched pokemon off the field. Then Sabledonk just need to run through it's supply of Trainers to get the Active pokemon down to 70hp with the use of a single Flash Bite and multiple Poke Blowers. Attach Expert Belt and Special Darkness energy and KO with Overconfident for the game.