Bluffing?

[Gibbeh]

A lawyer runs a stop sign and gets pulled over by a Sheriffs Deputy. He thinks that he is smarter than the Deputy because he is sure that he has a better education. He decides to prove this to himself and have some fun at the deputies expense.

Deputy says, "License and registration, please."

Lawyer says, "What for?"

Deputy says, "You didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign"

Lawyer says, "I slowed down, and no one was coming."

Deputy says, "You still didn't come to a complete stop. License and registration, please."

Lawyer says, "What's the difference?"

Deputy says, "The difference is you have to come to a complete stop, that's the law. License and registration, please!"

Lawyer says, "If you can show me the legal difference between slow down and stop, I'll give you my license and registration and you give me the ticket, if not you let me go and no ticket."

Deputy says, "Exit your vehicle, sir."

At this point, the deputy takes out his nightstick and starts beating the ever-loving snot out of the lawyer and says "Do you want me to stop or just slow down?"

You realize you just taught in a parable? You're the greatest, PokePop.

 

[MattPL]

Well, that's different.
This player intended to deceive their opponents and did not give them the knowledge that it was not a reference card. They just kept quiet and let them assume.
But as Lawman states, you could get into a heap of trouble over it, so best not to chance it.

"Keeping quiet" about it would not be a bluff. It would draw the penalty.
If you verbally advised your opponent's that it wasn't a translation, then you should be OK, but all you'd need is for one opponent to say "I had no idea if it was a translation or not" and you're toast.

What if I were to say I told them, and if they did not know then why didn't they ask?

I know that's pushing it, but I would've hated for someone to outright lie like that. Also, it was my first tournament, so I wasn't taking it to seriously.

It means that if you push the edge of what you can do, don't be surprised if you get (figuratively) whacked upside the head by a cop (judge).

Personally, I'd get a laugh out of the energy card thing.
Another judge might DQ you over it.

Why exactly would they get DQ'd? I mean, wasn't he technically following the rules?

And if it were me, I wouldn't take that bluff. As far as I know, that Japanese card could be anything, valuable or not, so I would just go "meh, whatever"

 

[PokePop]

trying to push the rules to the edge using "technicalities" can be seen per the penalty guidelines as dubious.

Why chance it?

Some judges would be fine with it.
Some would hit you with a major penalty.

The risk/reward ratio is off the chart. Why push it?

 

[Mach]

What if someone had a Dusknoir DP next to their translations, and an English Dusknoir DP in their deck? When they show their opponent their translations, they say the Dusknoir isn't a translation.

 

[Lawman]

What if someone had a Dusknoir DP next to their translations, and an English Dusknoir DP in their deck? When they show their opponent their translations, they say the Dusknoir isn't a translation.

Did you NOT read Pokepop's parable w/ the lawyer and the cop?? Why do you people want to push the envelope???? You shouldnt be showing any cards off to the oppo BEFORE a match. IF you have a translation, when you play the card, you ask your oppo if they need to see the translation OR just auto pull it out and place on table. Easy to do! No big hang ups.

Why do players want to deceive their oppo's with "dubious" actions?? Look up the penalty for "dubious actions". Hint....it rhymes with "name boss" and can escalate to "DQ" (and that doesnt mean you get an Ice cream or Blizzard!)

Keith

 

[spoinkmaster]

I like to bluff being as I used to play poker...but it isn't necessary in pokemon.

I agree...rarely will any of these scenarios have an actual effect on the game if your opponent is good. As stated in the first one, they could've sprayed the Luxray X instead. If you'd like to think that you "got into your opponent's head and made him misplay", that's fine by me, but they probably misplayed due to not having the knowledge that Time Walk wouldn't matter if you can still spray what they can get. You're bluffing yourself thinking you can influence a game of Pokemon by bluffing things.

 

[MattPL]

Did you NOT read Pokepop's parable w/ the lawyer and the cop?? Why do you people want to push the envelope???? You shouldnt be showing any cards off to the oppo BEFORE a match. IF you have a translation, when you play the card, you ask your oppo if they need to see the translation OR just auto pull it out and place on table. Easy to do! No big hang ups.

Why do players want to deceive their oppo's with "dubious" actions?? Look up the penalty for "dubious actions". Hint....it rhymes with "name boss" and can escalate to "DQ" (and that doesnt mean you get an Ice cream or Blizzard!)

Keith

Haha, I had to think about this for a second or two. Now that's gold right there :lol::thumb:

 

[Lawman]

I agree...rarely will any of these scenarios have an actual effect on the game if your opponent is good. As stated in the first one, they could've sprayed the Luxray X instead. If you'd like to think that you "got into your opponent's head and made him misplay", that's fine by me, but they probably misplayed due to not having the knowledge that Time Walk wouldn't matter if you can still spray what they can get. You're bluffing yourself thinking you can influence a game of Pokemon by bluffing things.

I know a certain World Champ that wouldn't be the Champ today if his play/bluff didnt work. Top cuts, Steve needed to use Flutter Wings on his Bee to get the 4th Bee in play (the 4th hadnt hit the table yet). He was playing ag'st SP. I knew the oppo had a spray in hand (Cyrus). He sits for a few secs, pondering. He rose's into a weedle and an azelf. Drops the Weedle, drops Azelf and goes "time walk". The oppo sprays. Steve says thx and goes "flutter wings", gets the 4th Bee from deck and RCs up. Quite the play my friends.

Keith

 

[gashmoigidy]

I know a certain World Champ that wouldn't be the Champ today if his play/bluff didnt work. Top cuts, Steve needed to use Flutter Wings on his Bee to get the 4th Bee in play (the 4th hadnt hit the table yet). He was playing ag'st SP. I knew the oppo had a spray in hand (Cyrus). He sits for a few secs, pondering. He rose's into a weedle and an azelf. Drops the Weedle, drops Azelf and goes "time walk". The oppo sprays. Steve says thx and goes "flutter wings", gets the 4th Bee from deck and RCs up. Quite the play my friends.

Keith

Love stuff like this. Always sigh as you drop the azelf.

 

[Mama_Luigi]

Love stuff like this. Always sigh as you drop the azelf.

I can tell you didn't read any of this thread.

 

[MattPL]

I can tell you didn't read any of this thread.

Nothing against the rules about breathing heavily :tongue:

Yeah yeah, dubious actions and all that, I get it. I don't need to hear any more of it honestly.

 

[Box of Fail]

If you can get in trouble for sighing, there is something VERY wrong with this game.

 

[baby mario]

Basically, the whole thread goes like this . . .

Don't push your luck, or you might get a penalty

Oh PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!! I'll be ever so clever about it!

Repeat to fade.

 

[Box of Fail]

Sighing should not be considered 'pushing your luck' though.

 

[baby mario]

I seriously doubt anyone would get penalised for sighing.

I dunno, I think people should just play the game . . . none of these pathetic little tricks work against decent players anyway.

 

[Box of Fail]

Which is precisely why I'm worried about other people using them against me.

 

[baby mario]

I thought you would WANT them to, to increase the challenge.

 

[Kayle]

When you play the Azelf, you must be methodical, business-like. Just like the rest of the match should be. You shouldn't change your style or your pace or your attitude no matter what you're doing - whether you need the Time Walk, or whether you're baiting a spray.

Why? Two reasons.

Firstly, changing your attitude can be seen as attempting to mislead the other player, which causes all sorts of penalty problems as seen in the rest of this thread.

Secondly, changing your attitude signals to your opponent that something is wrong, and they are being misled.

Play the game right and you don't have any problems! :thumb:

 

[travis3290]

I seriously doubt anyone would get penalised for sighing.

I dunno, I think people should just play the game . . . none of these pathetic little tricks work against decent players anyway.

they obviously do though, as it worked for steven.

listen, any card game is half skill, and half luck. A lot of that skill comes from mindgames. heck im glad im 6'3 cause i intimidate people a good bit. Your attitude is important too, someone in the thread talked about if you seem pathetic they'll underestimate you, and thats entirely true. there is nothing wrong with messing with them, as long as your not lying.

 

[mikeg542]

I'm a magic player too and reading this thread makes me really sad. The fact that it can be against the rules to misrepresent hidden information is absolutely ridiculous. It should just be another part of the skill set that can be used to help win the game.

I understand that the game has younger players and the idea of bluffing could be detrimental to their playing (as it encourages deception and lying as a method of victory, which is not a good life lesson for an 8 year old) As well, those younger kids are more likely to think it 'cheap' or underhanded to win with a bluff and would thus take away some of the fun for them.

However, older players should be able to separate the game from reality enough to not have the idea of bluffing teach them bad life lessons.

I think that bluffing should be allowed in the masters division under the following circumstances:
1) No deception is made regarding public information. If a player asks about a card's ability or # of prizes or damage counters or cards in hand, the answer must be completely truthful. However, there should be no penalty for saying openly: "My luxray is prized, darn" as your opponent should be given the option of believing or disbelieving themselves. As the information is private, you should have no reason to have to tell the truth, but also should have nothing stopping you from a bluff.

2) Cards on the table that are not in your deck need to be a translation. There is no reason for any other card to be on the table.

3) If a player shows a card with the intent to deceive (make the opponent do it's actions without having to play it), that player should be given a warning, then a game loss. The player tricked should not be penalized but if they shuffled their hand or anything, should have to live with that.

4) Note taking within a game should be allowed, as long as it is done in a timely fashion and is done in public. such as prize location and opponents hand after an effect.


This is just my opinion but I feel it would add a next level of skill to the game