Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Donking, and why it is suddenly a big concern for the community

Status
Not open for further replies.
Porii Sames said:
THe problem I have is not that people are moaning over donks so much but more that people are trying to make methods to stop them via changing game mechanics.

PORII SAMES' CARDS ON HOW TO STOP DONKS
Gastly SF
Dialga G
Call Energy
Spiritomb AR
...
More Basic Pokemon
Mr. Mime SV
Pichu HGSS

It's not that hard. Seriously.
Click to expand...

Gastly SF itself is EXTREMELY vulnerable to Sableye donk. Seen it happen so many times. Pichu is itself highly donkable. Dialga, Tomb excellent in the right decks but not really an option for everyone (even if you could guarantee a start with it). Mime SV is pretty useless against obvious donkers like Champ and the Quad Uxie deck, and there's always Crobat + 60 to one-shot it.

Call Energy . . . agree 100%. I will always run it.
 
Spiritomb can be used in a lot of decks. A guy teched Spiritomb in his BLG WITH Calls in a CC because I was there and he didn't want to get donked.
 
Porii Sames said:
Spiritomb can be used in a lot of decks. A guy teched Spiritomb in his BLG WITH Calls in a CC because I was there and he didn't want to get donked.
Click to expand...

How many Tomb did he run?

1 isn't going to make much difference to the donk chances.

4 is outright terrible in an SP deck and very likely to lead to a bunch of non-donk losses.
 
Porii Sames said:
THose are options.

If you don't want to get donked, tech those in. If you don't think you will get donked, then don't.

Besides, doesn't Luxchomp already normally run Calls? And sometimes Dialga G? THat is a LOT of protection from donks.
Click to expand...

Lol did you not read my post where I got donked twice in the same tournament? Btw I play luxchomp too and NOT ONE basic in my deck has less than 70 hp! I also play 4 Call energy and my deck plays 17 basic pokemon.


Anyway gastly sf is super donk bait as it is (T1 Overconfident ftw). Dialgachomp runs the same problems as luxchomp in regards to lone garchomp starts. I agree that the best way to prevent donks is playing a deck with a core of 4 Spiritomb , 4 Call energy, and at least 14 basic pokemon. Not that many decks though will run this skeleton as it probably isn't the most competitive (Viilegar run this list and would much rather prefer rescue and warp energy over call)

No deck is donk proof. If you will, find an acceptable level of donkage for a player (hint: its probably 0% for a vast majority of players), and then find me a competitive deck that has the level of donkage. I know the math is probably hard, but I'm sure there are some smart posters on the gym the can help us out. (Here's a start, the odds of starting with any one 1 card that you play 4 cards of in a 60 card deck is around 47%).



tl;dr. In our current metagame it's impossible to make a competitive deck that is donk proof.
 
I'm not sure where I stand on this. I know that they are going to happen due to luck, but I also wasn't donked at all last year and have yet to be this year. I have donked people about 6 times in that span and I am including top cut games in all of this. I mean if you were being/getting donked more than 30% of the time, that's a problem, but I really feel that it is better than it was, and that the chances of it happening now are under 5%. I don't think right now there is anything that can or should be done, it is going to happen no matter what and to do something that would make that game not count isn't fair to the player who won.

Drew
 
Not so much. It can slow down both players enough so that he can Drush stuff quickly once he gets out of trainer lock.
 
There are measures you can take to decrease the chance of being donked, but it honestly makes it worse. Running more basics or using Call doesn't do a thing against Uxie/Shuppet donk with Seeker to clear a field of 4 starting Pokemon in a turn.

And Spiritomb only works when you actually start with him. Even then, Sableye + Sp Dark + Crobat G KOs T1 with 0 trainers. Ambipom G holds a pretty title of donk king too when it comes to clearing basics one doesn't expect to get donked with, with his Rook, Crobat and the DCE Bishop.

I could rant, but really it boils down to this: Donks can't be avoided. Donks don't improve the game in any way. But they happen. Gotta deal with em.
 
A donk is like a big bowl of Frosted Flakes with 2 spoons of Suger added. Sweet victory!

If donk's were not part of the game, they would never happen in the history of the game.

Besides- a donk is able to happen 50/50 for both players, it is a manner of who pulls it off first.
 
Donks are part of the game. I don't have an issue with donks.

My problem with donks is that they are incompatible with the tournament structure that we use. Remember the goal is to crown the BEST player on the day. Not the one who was luckiest or the one who had the least table time.

Now even though the single game swiss tournament structure is incompatible with donks that does not mean that it can't cope with a small number of donks in a day or could not be changed to lessen the impact of what is essentialy a skill-less win.

[FWIW Rob's Uxie donk deck is not a beginners deck]
 
Getting donked by a legit deck is acceptable, and I don't see a problem with it. It's just the people that refuse to play anything that doesn't revolve around the T1 is what makes me mad. How can you justify that this is good for the game? By destroying top tier players ratings? I watched Austino get paired against Uxie donk 2 games in a row, and "won" the flip both the flips. He went from easily being able to win the tournament to not even making top cut.
 
I think one of the main problems with donks is that some countries play single game swiss, which with growing attendences, isn't going to change.
 
NoPoke said:
My problem with donks is that they are incompatible with the tournament structure that we use. Remember the goal is to crown the BEST player on the day. Not the one who was luckiest or the one who had the least table time.

Now even though the single game swiss tournament structure is incompatible with donks that does not mean that it can't cope with a small number of donks in a day or could not be changed to lessen the impact of what is essentialy a skill-less win.
Click to expand...
^ this.

In a 31 player (in one age division) City Championship you can get donked first round and your tournament is over before you got to play. You could still go 4-1, but you won't make tops any more, no matter how good you play and how good your new rogue deck beats the metagame.

Either b-o-3 swiss rounds (but without the new timeout rule of course, as discussed in other threads) or the old top cut numbers that worked well for several years until 2008 could fix this problem without changing the actual game rules.
 
Benzo said:
Besides- a donk is able to happen 50/50 for both players, it is a manner of who pulls it off first.
Click to expand...

Its a manner of who gets the first turn to pull it off, nothign else, its pure luck, no skill, no fair game, just a cheap win. I agree with the opening post, some posts in this thread make me cry.
 
I wound up playing instead of judging at a CC here so the Masters could have 5+T4 instead of 4+T4. I didn't have a deck, so somebody handed me their Shuppet donk deck and I used that. I didn't even look at what was in the deck prior to starting. Now, to be fair, I know how to play. It's not like I'm a total noob - I just judge instead of play in tournaments now.

Round 1 v Cursegar - T4 win (to be fair, he got nothing other than 2 'tombs and deaddrew, so this wasn't really a "donk.") 1-0. Turns played: 4
Round 2 v Gyarados - We played 4 times. I won the first 3 on the first turn - Unown Q donk of a karp, Uxie donk of an Uxie, and Uxie+Crobat donk of a carp. 4-1. Turns played in wins: 7
Round 3 v Gyarados - He Sablestarts with a benched 'karp. Impersonate Collectors for 3 basics. I Warp Point, Seeker, Uxie+PlusPower donk. 5-1. Turns played: 8
Round 4 v Machamp/Donphan - He wins the toss, starts with Uxie. I T1 donk his lone Uxie with my Uxie and PlusPowers/Belt. 6-1. Turns played: 9
Round 5 v Uxie Donk - He wins the toss, starts with Uxie. See Round 4 but add in Crobat Gs. 7-1. Turns played: 10

To be fair, I got demolished in the T4, by the guy I donked in Round 3. The point is, I took a deck I had never seen, didn't know the contents of other than the fact it was a straight up donk deck, and won 7 games in 10 turns. Since only 5 of the games counted, my rating after the Swiss rounds (start at 1600) was 1640.04.



Conclusion: the current rules set ABSOLUTELY allows completely unskilled players to beat on total expert players who never stood a chance in the game. And a ruleset that allows donks to exist in a single-game match ~and~ in an ELO system is completely absurd.
 
Last edited:
Um, stuff like "lol Gain DCE EQ ur Garchomp win" requires no skill.

Donk decks in general can require a LOT of skill if it's not just a one poke donk.

When I'm playing Beedrill G, the first thing I think is if I should go for the donk or not. Usually this boils down to if I have a Dual Ball or Uxie in my hand and a Seeker. If I don't, I may try to draw into Uxie. If I do, I have to think if I still want to donk or just KO their active. Then, I have to use what I draw into correctly. I have to know what to Junk Arm fodder and what to get. I have to know when to take risks with SSU.

Plus, I spent a year crafting and perfecting Beedrill G. A YEAR. I did it by myself, and probably had over 150 different cards in there over time.

I know that there is no possible way that donks can be prevented. This is true. However, you can aid in the matchup by teching in the cards I had earlier.

It's like teching stuff in for matchups.

"If Donphan is big in your area, you may want to tech in an extra Psychic and Crobat G in your Luxchomp."

This does not guarantee you the win, nor does it even tilt it in your favor normally. But it helps
 
Donking requires no skill.
BUILDING a solid donk deck does, that I will give you.

At any rate, donks have always been a part of the game, sure. But look closer at the type of donk back in the day.
Hitmonchan vs Electabuzz? Popular type weakness helps out here.
Cleffa vs Tyrogue? Metagaming
Riolu vs Castform? Popular type weakness

Those donks were made possible by the meta. However, a Riolu (The DP one for the newcomers) could pretty much only donk Castform. It wouldn't donk anything else.

Now we have macheap and Quad Uxie. Yeah.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top