Donking, and why it is suddenly a big concern for the community

[Porii Sames]

Scipio, have you ever even [played a donk deck? Like not played against, but played with? It IS easier than most decks; but don't think it requires no skill.

Building donk decks is probably one of the hardest decks to get perfect, imo. It's easy to get the main structure for teh deck.

 

[Yoshi-]

Ive build an uxie donk deck once, (the seeker one), had it figured out in about 2 minutes, I dont see how this requires any skill that goes beyond basic logic, basic maths and the ability to sit on a table and hold some cards.

Also building it took about 5 minutes, the list is so brain dead obvious...

And youre talking like this is something like a regular metagame choice you can prepare or not prepare to play against but this deck only preys on bad openings/bad luck because in a normal game it cant win, you cant tech against it or prepare, you cant prepare for bad luck, if it happens to you it happens to you and their is no way to stop it from happening

 

[Porii Sames]

*sigh*

I don't know how many times I have to say this.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAN GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL NOT BE DONKED!!!

You can still get donked, even if you do prepare for it. But those cards can help you not to get donked, and a few help in other matchups as well.

Yoshi, Uxie donk is far more complicated than that. I will say as one who has played donk decks for awhile, it is diffiult knowing what to play and when, knowing when to drop R and Uxie, knowing whether or not you should donk, etc.

For example, I had Luxchomp "figured out" in about 15 minutes. Dragon Rush, Flash Impact stuff, Bright Luck, keep 3 SPs on the field, etc. But that is just the basics. You still have to know a lot about donk decks and how to play them imo to be successful.

 

[jeffrey123]

Porii, didn't you go 1-3 with Beedrill G a few days back? So that must mean you go for the donk, miss it, and lose? That's how donk decks work. If they miss the donk, they're in for it. If not, w/e.

I can tell you now, UXIE DONK is the most aggravating deck to play. I rage so hard. The dude sits there and flips coins for 15 minutes, seekers up my benched Regigigas, and swings for 100 to KO my REGIGIGAS active. 100 DAMAGE. Are you KIDDING ME?

Now this is why I switched to Vilegar. *Flips spiritomb active* gg.

Donks are fun to give, but terrible to recieve. I say scrap em and lets go with Bullados' idea.

 

[Porii Sames]

I went 1-3 a few weeks ago, yes.

I tried to go for the donk if I could, yes, and I had terrible openings and that's why I lost. The fact I didn't donked was the same.

I've had wins this season where I didn't donk but still won (check my last Cities thread where I won vs. Gyarados when I was behind by far).

Donks are not the best way to lose, nor are they the best way to win, but they can be stopped. I think your idea of switching to Vilegar is a stellar idea, more than stellar, brilliant, and that everyone in this thread should do the same. If you don't like getting donked, play Vilegar. You won't get donked as much.

However, Bullados's plan involves a gameplay change alltogether. Why do this when, I don't know, you could take the time to try and prevent them?

 

[Scipio]

Scipio, have you ever even [played a donk deck? Like not played against, but played with? It IS easier than most decks; but don't think it requires no skill.

Building donk decks is probably one of the hardest decks to get perfect, imo. It's easy to get the main structure for teh deck.

I played them. I know how to pilot them. Its still autopiloting.

 

[Porii Sames]

All right, so what happens if you miss the donk? Say you use a few resources but miss out on the donk? Then what? You still have to know when to Flash Bite, when to Poke Blower, what to Poke Blower, etc. Don't think that it's easy mid game when all of your resources have been wasted due to bad planning and trying to donk when you couldn't,

 

[jeffrey123]

I went 1-3 a few weeks ago, yes.

I tried to go for the donk if I could, yes, and I had terrible openings and that's why I lost. The fact I didn't donked was the same.

I've had wins this season where I didn't donk but still won (check my last Cities thread where I won vs. Gyarados when I was behind by far).

Donks are not the best way to lose, nor are they the best way to win, but they can be stopped. I think your idea of switching to Vilegar is a stellar idea, more than stellar, brilliant, and that everyone in this thread should do the same. If you don't like getting donked, play Vilegar. You won't get donked as much.

However, Bullados's plan involves a gameplay change alltogether. Why do this when, I don't know, you could take the time to try and prevent them?

S you're saying that for everyone to avoid donking, you have to play a deck that stops trainers from being played? What happens if I had starten with Unown Q? I would still have lost, so your point is invalid.


Donks CANNOT be stopped. I can play just 4 smeargle and a 4-3-3-1 line of gengar, but that doesnt mean that my opponent can start with sableye, sp dark, turn, bat, turn?

 

[Porii Sames]

If they are annoyed by donks, then they play Vilegar. I think that you are making a good point by switching to Vilegar because you hated Uxiedonk so much.

Again, I think I'll repeat myself so that someone may actually get the point.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAN GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL NOT BE DONKED!!!

You can, however, do stuff such as put in the proper cards in your deck in order to help you not get donked as much.

 

[Scipio]

All right, so what happens if you miss the donk? Say you use a few resources but miss out on the donk? Then what? You still have to know when to Flash Bite, when to Poke Blower, what to Poke Blower, etc. Don't think that it's easy mid game when all of your resources have been wasted due to bad planning and trying to donk when you couldn't,

Play your deck right and you won't have had the bad planning and you wouldnt have tried to donk what you couldn't donk.

 

[Kayle]

S you're saying that for everyone to avoid donking, you have to play a deck that stops trainers from being played? What happens if I had starten with Unown Q? I would still have lost, so your point is invalid.

Donks CANNOT be stopped. I can play just 4 smeargle and a 4-3-3-1 line of gengar, but that doesnt mean that my opponent can start with sableye, sp dark, turn, bat, turn?

A+ post would read again.

Porii, we've been over this before. Donks can't be completely negated, it's literally impossible in this format. Donks also can't be reasonably lessened without destroying the viability of the deck in question. Note that the only "undonkable" deck in the format, Vilegar, is also the lowest-scoring "tier one" deck in the format. It's either play something "undonkable", which still suffers terrible starts from time to time that amount to donks (and are often still vulnerable to turbo T1 decks), and lose the majority of your chance at doing well against the rest of the tournament - or play something viable and accept the losses that can ruin your match, and sometimes your whole day.

Don't you remember how I went through and did all the math for you? Playing 4 Tomb can mess with your speed and consistency while not being a terribly viable anti-donk shield.

 

[Porii Sames]

No; I was showing the common mistakes I see when people try to play donk decks. They might try immediately to get the donk, they may try to burn up a lot of resources and miss the donk, etc. I have learned to know when to try to donk and when not to.

---------- Post added 12/21/2010 at 08:38 PM ----------

A+ post would read again.

Porii, we've been over this before. Donks can't be completely negated, it's literally impossible in this format. Donks also can't be reasonably lessened without destroying the viability of the deck in question. Note that the only "undonkable" deck in the format, Vilegar, is also the lowest-scoring "tier one" deck in the format. It's either play something "undonkable", which still suffers terrible starts from time to time that amount to donks (and are often still vulnerable to turbo T1 decks), and lose the majority of your chance at doing well against the rest of the tournament - or play something viable and accept the losses that can ruin your match, and sometimes your whole day.

Again, NOTHING IS UNDONKABLE I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU ARE MISSING THIS.

Vilegar isn't the only deck that is good vs. donks. Dchomp is good too, among others, like Vileplume variants.

What about something like Calls? These can go into a LOT of decks; and they can help against donks.

So, what I'm gathering is that you guys are whining about donking. THen, I say that you should play Vilegar or Dchomp; 2 COMPLETELY good choices in the metagame today; not to mention other decks like Vileplume variants or heavy SP toolboxes. But then you say that you shouldn't have to take extra precautions for a donk that you might not even face. It's like teching for your metagame. It's like putting a second Crobat and Psychic in your Luxchomp. It's teching against your metagame.

I don't know how donks ruin the whole day. They are just losses. I hate losing by sheer overpowerment more than losing by donks. Then when I'm donked I can go hang out with my friends. But I don't really understand some of the logic in this thread so I'll just leave that here.

 

[jeffrey123]

*sigh*

You spend 500 dollars to travel and play at worlds
You get donked twice

Your chances of being a world champion are done. Finished. A whole season (and 500 bucks) down the drain.

 

[Porii Sames]

You spend $500.

You lose twice because you played 2 autolosses and were rolled through.

You could have played a different deck. But you didn't.

I'm going to be serious; I don't ever expect to win Worlds. I don't expect Kayle to win, and I don'te expect you to win. Just sayin'.

I'd rather get donked than play an autolosss.

 

[Kayle]

Again, NOTHING IS UNDONKABLE I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU ARE MISSING THIS.

Sorry, your post came after I clicked "quote" . ."

Vilegar isn't the only deck that is good vs. donks. Dchomp is good too, among others, like Vileplume variants.

What about something like Calls? These can go into a LOT of decks; and they can help against donks.

They're not entirely reliable for two reasons. Firstly, you only get them 40% of the time. Secondly, thanks to Seeker it's possible to knock out three Pokemon on the first turn.

I don't know how donks ruin the whole day. They are just losses. I hate losing by sheer overpowerment more than losing by donks. Then when I'm donked I can go hang out with my friends. But I don't really understand some of the logic in this thread so I'll just leave that here.

I really wouldn't be surprised to learn you're the only one who feels that way so strongly. I come into a tournament to play Pokemon. When I'm donked, I was denied a game - I just wasted a whole slot of an hour I expected to be playing an enjoyable, challenging game because I lost on the first turn. When I'm donked by a donk deck I have no chance to reclaim that time, either.

Graciously ignore our playful MSPA roleplay - I chose to explain donks to one of my friends just now, and their reaction was so priceless and so true:

(18:34:06) (@grimAuxilliatrix) Have I Ever Described Donking To You
(18:34:13) (@grimAuxilliatrix) Its A Trading Card Game Term
(18:34:15) (apocalypseArisen) n0
(18:34:19) (@grimAuxilliatrix) Specific To Pokemon
(18:34:49) (@grimAuxilliatrix) To Be Donked Basically Means To Lose Or Be Put Into An Unwinnable Position By The First Turn
(18:35:05) (@grimAuxilliatrix) You Dont Actually Get A Chance To Do Anything
(18:35:11) (@grimAuxilliatrix) You Just Outright Lose
(18:35:26) (apocalypseArisen) that
(18:35:28) (apocalypseArisen) sucks
(18:35:37) (@grimAuxilliatrix) Its A Natural Part Of The Game And Happens Sometimes
(18:35:54) (@grimAuxilliatrix) Theres Not Much You Can Do When You Flip Over Magikarp And Your Opponent Has Something That Can Do 30 For One Energy
(18:36:08) (@grimAuxilliatrix) But Lately It Has Become Fairly Easy
(18:36:19) (@grimAuxilliatrix) In Fact It Is Possible To Build A Deck That Revolves Around Achieving That Turn One Win
(18:36:42) (apocalypseArisen) that is the p0int at which i w0uld st0p being inv0lved with that card game

Why? It's no fun. When I am donked, I just wasted a whole game. I can't hang out with friends because they are busy having fun playing out the rest of their matches, but even then, that's not why I'm here; I drove an hour and a half (or more) and paid $40 in gas (or more) plus $80 in cards (or more) to come to this specific place TO PLAY POKEMON. One donk game is all it takes to knock you out of cut sometimes, and you didn't even get a chance to fight for it. It's a huge waste of time and energy and it sucks!

I'm not going to bother arguing with your stance about it as a metagame choice because that's actually a perfectly adequate argument, but the point is that I don't want the game to degrade into matches that are five minutes long and resolved before I have a chance to really do anything. Sure, it's "legitimate", but it's boring and aggravating and no one will want to play.

 

[Yoshi-]

Play your deck right and play a deck that has a strategy besides donking.

If I play uxie and I miss the donk and my opponent sets up, I scoop

 

[Porii Sames]

OK, let me ask you this

Would you rather be donked by a Uxiedonk

or

Would you rather play Uxiedonk vs. a Vilegar that hits T1 Tomb T2 Vileplume?

I've played against Vilegar a bit this season with Beedrill, and it SUCKS. It is a hard matchup and there is absolutely nothing you can do if they get up Vileplume. I do everything in my power to stop that from happening; but once it's up, i'ts game over. That's why I play Devoluter. It helps vs. Vilegar.

While Donk Decks have a good reward (winning on the 1st turn), they have a HUGE downfall. If they play Vilegar, you're in for one wild ride. It is TERRIBLE.

So if you want to get back at donk players, play Vilegar. Oh, and don't get donked.

---------- Post added 12/21/2010 at 08:55 PM ----------

Play your deck right and play a deck that has a strategy besides donking.

If I play uxie and I miss the donk and my opponent sets up, I scoop

Um, why?

You're still feeding out a consistent 80 a turn; and that's not bad. Not necesarily the greatest, but not bad.

 

[Kayle]

OK, let me ask you this

Would you rather be donked by a Uxiedonk

or

Would you rather play Uxiedonk vs. a Vilegar that hits T1 Tomb T2 Vileplume?

Why are you even asking? The whole point is that I never want to make this decision! I don't want to play stupid games decided on the first turn because of the matchup and my starting hand!

 

[Trican]

I kind of like this idea:

The first player would be able to play a supporter OR attack during their first turn. If they feel they can make set up without a supporter then they could go ahead and attack for the turn. If they have that infamous Unown Q start, but have the Collector in hand they would have that option.

Now of course one could argue starting Smeargle and playing a collector anyway. It would just be strategy in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Porii Sames]

I kind of like this idea:

The first player would be able to play a supporter OR attack during their first turn. If they feel they can make set up without a supporter then they could go ahead and attack for the turn. If they have that infamous Unown Q start, but have the Collector in hand they would have that option.

Now of course one could argue starting Smeargle and playing a collector anyway. It would just be strategy in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

Guess what!

We kind of have this~

It's called Call Energy!