how? I've had my blissey PT sprayed many times and ruined nothing since I knew it was coming. the few times I was caught off guard, I just did it next turn. spray one uxie, drop another next turn, which is what many non uxie donk decks do when it gets sprayed.
Donking, and why it is suddenly a big concern for the community
- Thread starter Ice'Cold
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how? I've had my blissey PT sprayed many times and ruined nothing since I knew it was coming. the few times I was caught off guard, I just did it next turn. spray one uxie, drop another next turn, which is what many non uxie donk decks do when it gets sprayed.
billbilski
New Member
Nobody can seriously argue that not getting a turn, hence not even playing, is good for the game - period. UxieDonk is in a category by itself as it achieves a donk or milks a three prize lead via an absurdly long first turn at a ridiculous rate. Decks like Machamp etc are annoying but are much easier to counter without some stupid alteration of one's deck i.e call and increased basic count.... Personally I would like to see a MUCH slower more tactical game, but save a deck like UxieDonk, I still think the game is pretty darn fun(even in this stale play it safe format), and with VileGar heavily in the mix, speed decks are definately tempered.
You CAN win with ROGUE! Try it just for kicks.
You CAN win with ROGUE! Try it just for kicks.
That's precisely my point though, there aren't any instances of it. People are going to use donks whether they are against them or not.
Donking is part of the game, it's just absurdly more noticeable these days because you can't run any BBP decks anymore outside of SP. Evolution decks are able to thrive and with those come the weaker basic Pokemon. In addition to that are all of the utility Pokemon that everyone runs like Sableye, Unowns, even Smeargle could be used as an example.
I personally doubt donking is the reason for the mid-season format change, myself. I would guess that they're trying to shake off SP decks as a dominant force while not having to re-rule so many older cards and at the same time encouraging people to begin using the new hotness.
The way I see it, there's only three ways to prevent donking:
Remove the 'Last Pokemon Knocked Out' Win Condition,
Let every player pick 3 starting Pokemon out of their decks before the game,
Or, more realistically, reserve the really good powers and attacks for Pokemon you have to evolve.
Flash Bite wasn't reused nearly as much when it was a Power on Dark Golbat, because you had to either wait a turn or blow a rare candy to use it. Which was impossible because RC and DG weren't ever in the same format, so it was never much of a problem. For Uxie, put his Power on a Stage 1 Pokemon, force the user to put him at the bottom of the deck after attacking. Make Shuppet discard all cards attached before he goes back to your hand.
Pokemon's been through a lot worse than 'one deck that can knock you out in one turn if you're unlucky enough to get an Unown Q start' and I suspect that when the new B&W rules hit along with the rotation of all the Platinum expansions, donking will hardly be as prevalent as you guys are making it out to be.
Disregarding all previous discussion, I shall provide my brief views and then get out of the discussion. Here are my beliefs on the issue. It's always been a big deal, but now that it's so prevalent in our meta, it's a bigger deal. There are archetypes that are donk oriented now. Whilst I won't disregard previous decks as not being donk decks, I will note that now it's such an established part of the metas and just the game in general it's being addressed. I'll admit that it's not the best thing ever, and I don't particularly enjoy it, but the fact is that it's the direction that the game has gone, and while most won't like it, myself included, we can't do a thing about it. I like a real game as much as the other person, but the idea that donking isn't a real game win form is absurd. IF you get the donk, and win, you are declared the winner. Early into the thread there was talk about the game not ending the second you get the donk, or win in a more broader term. I can't possibly fathom how that'd work, but I don't think it'd be that great, at least not as great as it was hyped. If I'm going to win, and I'm declared winner, I don't want to give my opponent a chance to catch up and perhaps win the game.
Perhaps a good example would be Shuppet Donk v. Dusknoir. If I get the donk, and my opponent is given a chance to come back, and perhaps win, I can't help but feel that an unfair advantage. Of course I'd most likely be the person playing the Dusknoir, but that's beside the point.
What I should say in closing is that, if you can't deal with the loss, then don't play the game. That happens once in a while and it does no good to whine.
-Maddox.
Perhaps a good example would be Shuppet Donk v. Dusknoir. If I get the donk, and my opponent is given a chance to come back, and perhaps win, I can't help but feel that an unfair advantage. Of course I'd most likely be the person playing the Dusknoir, but that's beside the point.
What I should say in closing is that, if you can't deal with the loss, then don't play the game. That happens once in a while and it does no good to whine.
-Maddox.
In six rounds, a strong player with Luxchomp or Gyarados ruins six people's chance at winning the tournament. Anyone that goes 6-0 in a swiss event is a strong player and deserves to win the day.
Its a point worth missing, as its a completely worthless point. If it ruins your day to play a rare donk deck that beats you turn 1, you need to play a different game and stop taking Pokemon so seriously.
Most people's point seems to be that the donk deck doesn't have much of a chance to win the tournament, so it shouldn't be played because it could beat someone that plays Luxchomp or Gyarados and might actually win (as they play a deck that "should" win). Sometimes what "should" happen, doesn't happen, and luck is an element in all games. If you can't handle it, again, see above.
Most people's point seems to be that the donk deck doesn't have much of a chance to win the tournament, so it shouldn't be played because it could beat someone that plays Luxchomp or Gyarados and might actually win (as they play a deck that "should" win). Sometimes what "should" happen, doesn't happen, and luck is an element in all games. If you can't handle it, again, see above.
Donk decks will RARELY X-0 thanks to trainer locking decks. Not saying it is impossible, just not likely. This is the same reason they will not win tournaments. I haven't been keeping, but how many donk decks have won a cities? Next to none, I do know that much. That is my biggest problem with it: you aren't playing the deck because it is fun or because it gives you a chance of winning (the tournament), you are doing it to be a jerk.
DonphanAtoZ
New Member
That is why, IMO, donk decks will never get out of hand. The thing that keeps Uxie Donk in check is the fact that trainer lock and power lock are autolosses. Uxie donk is completely fair, it's not as if someone cheated to donk you. however, it still is pretty unfair to get beat turn 1 after you've driven a couple hundred miles.
Playing Turbo Uxie is lots of fun and it gives you about as much of a chance of winning as playing Drapion, Kingdra, or Steelix (not much, but some). If you are lucky in the pairings, go second more often than not, and the Vilegars get knocked out by the Gyarados', then you've got a shot. Not really a fair argument; "you can't win so why should you beat me?"
I could make the same argument about trainer lock decks. You can't beat my deck, except you prevent me from playing my cards. If it wasn't for that, I could beat you. Like Vilegar, Turbo Uxie brings balance to the force.
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Porii Sames
Active Member
Just popping in to say that powerlock cannot stop donk dex if you know what you're doing, unless they drop a Mesprit. And I agree with Funnybear; if your day is ruined cuz you got donked, then seriously, play something else. It happens. Look at me. My season record is 6-9 and I'm still feeling great because I took an absolutely horrid card (Beedrill G), played it for a year, and had a bit of success with it.
the_sniper
New Member
This is a GREAT post- and 1 I could not agree with more! I have lost to more people this year who don't have half the skills I do at this game simply because i went 1st and they crobat, triple turn, attack and sign the slip. That is not what I remember Pokemon being all about.
I know, play more basics- I do! I know, run call energy- again, I do! What I don't/can't do is control the opening 7 cards I draw, so I am REALLY sick and tired of that argument to this problem the TCG faces.
It's a game, and just like every other game ( card game , pro football, etc.) the best team or player doesn't always win- but they usually do. Not always, but that's why we play the games in the 1st place.
Not in Pokemon anymore. I played in a cities last Sunday where in 3 games I played 5 turns- FIVE! Got t-1ed once and t-2ed once.And the game I won went 2 turns. Sorry Charlie, but I have been doing this long enough to know when something is wrong. I have had exactly 2 games go to time this year- TWO! It never used to be like this , but it is now, and I personally hate it! Not to speak for him but my kid hates it too( and he is partly responsible with that annoying sabledonk deck he created before Florida States last year).But when in Rome..... He didn't win ( he took 3rd) but Curry won with his exact list. And it was stupid to watch Steve go 7-0 playing 3-5 minute games!!Some games took even less time
The game has a yu-gi-oh feel to it these days and I hate yu-gi-oh. He who draws the best 7 cards usually wins. He who opens with collector and goes 2nd usually wins. I was never a fan of scramble energy but at least with that card there was some chance of recovery from a bad start. We don't have that anymore.
Heck, you can't recover when you get ONE turn in a game now can you!?
IMHO I see these cards being released on purpose so newer players can compete with "seasoned veterans" which in turn does promote growth. I see that and totally agree with the concept.
But I do think they have gone too far with these t-1 wins, these fast, powerful cards that when combo'ed win games fast . It may be a good thing to draw new players into our game, but enough is enough guys! I want to play a game- not play a turn then sign the slip!
Hopefully when uxie rotates things will get better. Until then I'll keep on playing- I'm just not enjoying this format and I feel I am NOT the minority on this one.
DonphanAtoZ
New Member
Just throwing it out there, and I'm sure many people would agree; I'd rather have SP dominate than see lots of Machamp, Gdos, and VileGar. At least SP isn't something an inexperienced player can get far with.
Shino Bug Master
Front Page News Editor
^...
What? How does someone need experience to Dragon Rush things with less than 80 hp or Bright Look up things with high retreat cost? Not saying the other decks can't be autopiloted, but SP is just as bad...
What? How does someone need experience to Dragon Rush things with less than 80 hp or Bright Look up things with high retreat cost? Not saying the other decks can't be autopiloted, but SP is just as bad...
Porii Sames
Active Member
Victory Bell
Member
Autopiloted? Sp does certainly NOT run its self. Any deck can be put on autopilot, but to what degree of success? Straight Machamp, Shuppet and Uxie on the other hand, can.
DonphanAtoZ
New Member
If you think it's that simple...well, you aren't seeing this game as others do.
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